The Flu Jab!

[Naomi8]

I've just had a text from my GP practice offering me a flu jab.As I am over 60 & have an auto-immune condition,I learned from this forum I am eligible for the "top-of-the range"one.

I've only had it once & got a bad cold followed by a nasty sinus infection which with me causes horrendous problems lasting weeks.

I tapped flu jab into the search box as the latest posts have had no replies.

Bingo! A post 10 months ago with 57 responses reminding me why I will text "DECLINE"

Thank you TUK forum.You are my go-to source of helpful advice,opinion,understanding,knowledge,experience....

[FancyPants54]

The flu jab is inert. The virus they use is dead. You can't get sick from it. This was backed up twice recently by doctor's being asked the same question on the radio. Your cold was most probably a coincidence. After all you had been to the surgery for the jab and surgeries are full of germs.

Proper flu is far worse than a sinus infection. It can kill you.

[Naomi8 in reply to FancyPants54]

The trouble with "proper flu"is that it is constantly mutating.I haven't read anything that indicates that the flu jab is ever "up to date"It is always formulated retrospectively.

As to two doctors on the radio stating it is a dead virus-that does not reassure me.After my experience of the medical profession since my diagnosis of Hashimotos,I have learnt how little MDs know & how they too often parrot received wisdom.

Anecdotally,too many people go down with the common cold virus after the flu jab for it not to be a reaction of the immune system.

If I thought the flu vacine could protect me from a deadly strain of flu,I'd go for it.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Naomi8]

Each year the flu jab is supposed to be protective in about 70% of cases. You are right in that flu constantly mutates, but 70% protection is better than 0% protection. I shall be having mine. Everyone who works in the health service seeing patients has to have them. There would be uproar if they all got sick.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to FancyPants54]

Apparently it was 10% protection last year and the PIL says about 34% - you have to remember that the stats are often quoted as relative instead of absolute. Keep on drinking the Kool Aid.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to FancyPants54]

But hardly anyone ever gets it, as Cochrane collaboration reported in the days before they started to go down the pan. The nasal spray for children is live - so don't go near nay schools or buses at chuck out time if you want to avoid the virus and the injection for the elderly is full of nasties like thimoserol (aluminium) and egg proteins or, apparently, caterpillars! And that's according to the NHS.

[Naomi8 in reply to FancyPants54]

So if dead vaccines can protect you from killer viruses,how can you say they are inert?

[Hidden in reply to FancyPants54]

Fancy pantsjust because a doctor says something on the radio does not make it true. I watched 12 elderly residents of a nursing home all die with in two weeks of having the flu jab.There were twenty four residents, the GP came in a gave 12 of them the flu jab, the next day all 12 were very poorly and quickly died. The 12 thatdid not have the jab were fine and not even ill. I sat and helped the GP fill out all the yellow cards. He was in tears and saying that he could not continue to do his job if hewas expected to give it again. I have spoken to two other nurses who have seen the same thing happen. It is a vile, nasty vaccine and very much alive when it starts to muliply in someones blood stream. The flu virus should never go anywhere near the blood, it is normally an infection that gets inot the nasal passages, it is normally air borne not blood transmitted and induces septicimia when put into the blood. Are you just saying daft things to get a response.I am about to phone my local pharmacy to ask if live or dead, either way it is a killer and it saddens me that Gps have heads so far in the sand.

[Naomi8 in reply to Hidden]

Wow!!!

[FancyPants54 in reply to Hidden]

Please don't accuse me of saying daft things to get a response! For goodness sake.

[Muffy]

Apparently, your immune system goes down for a short while after the jab. At least that is what I read in an article written by a doctor, but can't remember who it was.

[Naomi8 in reply to Muffy]

That makes sense to me

[Baobabs]

I understood there were problems with the dubious fillers or ingredients the vaccine was mixed with?

[Hidden in reply to Baobabs]

Thats is true of most vaccines but the flu one appears dangerous becuase of the infections that occur after.

[Naomi8 in reply to Baobabs]

oops-meant to reply to muffy,though I'm sure an over-active immune system can be compromised by fillers!

[Naomi8]

Now that makes sense to me!

[Hidden]

I am also not convinced the flu is the killer it once was. After the Ist world war it killed millions but this was before antibiotics were available to treat the resulting bacterial chest infections I imagine.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Hidden]

It's much less likely to kill younger adults certainly. But it makes you feel terrible for quite some time. It can still kill the elderly pretty easily.

[Valarian in reply to FancyPants54]

And the post WW1 ‘Spanish Flu’ disproportionately affected adults in their twenties, thirties and forties.

[bonnyaus]

My Functional / GP doctor has told me on no account to I have the flu shots as my adrenals will not cope. So no flu shots, neither does my husband who has no medical conditions as I am hypothyroid, coeliac and diabetic. No colds either.

[Hidden in reply to bonnyaus]

I would say that young fit people are safe enough to have it, especiallly via the nose spray but elderly, frail people or people with anykind of cronic illness should avoid. Unfortunalty the HNS are recommending the opposite. I tend to manage information like this and it seems to work.

1) What I have seen or experianced in real life with my own eyes I accept as truth.

2) What I hear from freinds about thier experinces, observations I take very seriously.

3) What I hear online vis this forum by connecting with others and hearing thier experiance I take very seriously.

4) Information online or in books lealfets, academic papers I measure against my life experince or those I have communicated with in 2 and 3 and I only accept it as truth if it is consistant with life experience.

5) Information comming from Drug companys and this leads into information from doctors, I am deeply suspicious of. This is not because I have read stuff online, or becasue of this forum it is because of number 1 .I watched a lovely lady die of valium withdraw symptoms while I was training as a nurse and wrote to the pharmaceticaul company asking for information about valium and especiallly in regard to withdraw and addiction and was sent a letter and lots of glossy leaflets informing me that it was non addictive and that there were no with draw problems. They tell lies and lied to me personallyThank fully at the time lotsof doctors were becoming aware are the problems with this drug and prescribing it long term became outdated practice. Doctors used to be a powerful protection against drug company abuses but recently I think because of NICEguidlines making all the decisons doctor do not question or stop prescribing drugs thye are unhappy with. They dont stand p to drug comapnys and get stuff banned anymore.I think they feel powerless. They have to do as told or leave.The flu jab would not have lasted two years 30 years ago. the medics would have just stopped giving it when thier patients came back after having it feeling ill.

I dont know why drug companys are so badly behaved but they have been for a very long time. Unfortunatley a lot of doctors these days are not very street wise about thier tricks. As far as flu goes as an illness my own personal experince is that the only people I have seen dies of flu are those 12 who had the flu jab. I have never known anyone in my family or freinds die of flu and I dont think I have nursed anyone who has died of flu but many people who had developed bacterial infections following a virus and whom due to thier advanced dementia have not been given or taken antibiotics. I think the idea that flu is a terrible frightening illness is propoganda to increase sales and not consistant with my life experience.Perhaps if anyone knows of someone who has died of flu they could let me know.

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Hidden]

Well said MandyJane. Re your first paragraph, the NHS are also pushing a carbs with every meal diet for T2 diabetics and it is now turning out that that might not be the best way for diabetics to control their blood sugar. I know if I’d stuck with that I’d still be T2. I adopted a low carb, high fat diet and ate my way out of T2. If I go back then good old grain based carbs then I bet it wouldn’t be long until I was T2 again. The NHS is good but you’ve got to be selective and do what suits your own body best.

[Naomi8 in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

My husband's new GP lost 3 stone on an ultra-low carb carb,high fat(keto) diet & has just set my husband up to do the same.I will lose weight as a result,though I will keep eating more carbs.Going gluten free again just got SO much easier for me.

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Naomi8]

Amazing that hisdoctor did that, when I told the practise nurse I had gone LCHF she sniffed and said something about ‘low GI’ which it isn’t really. I signed up for DietDoctor.com and they run a program on what is good to eat for that way of life. That was helpful, I also bought an amazing book by Dr David Cavan about Reversing T2 and by doing exactly what he recommended - testing before and an honest ur after everything I ate I discovered that it was grain based foods that spiked my blood sugar - even so called healthy grains - so with the help of the diet doctor stuff I still eat carbs but I get my carbs from different sources and that works for me. It was very much trial and error but I know what suits me now. I was already totally GF and I was a bit worried as to how I would add the LCHF to that but it worked well. 😊

[Naomi8 in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Hubby joined Dietdoctor as soon as he got back from the surgery,after plenty of internet browsing,Dietdoctor impressed.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Naomi8]

Dietdoctor is obviously the "thing" of the moment as they are all recommending it.

All I will say about low carb dieting is that it made me sick. I was fine before. I suspect I was slightly hypo for years but it didn't affect me or stop me doing what I wanted. I lost a lot of weight through counting calories and exercise. I felt and looked great but I still had 1/2 a stone to go to be my ideal weight and it wouldn't shift. Having been a fan of understanding carbs and sugars for many years, I decided it was time to go low carb, aiming for keto, to get the last half stone off and keep it off. I already knew how to do it and I read more about it and got myself armed with recipes and food plans etc. I had read that some people feel quite unwell at first, around 12 days or so, they can feel like they have the flu (funnily enough!). I felt lousy. I could barely function. It went on like that for 3 weeks. I didn't loose any weight but I felt worse and worse. I couldn't move or do anything. I stuck it a bit longer but eventually decided I must introduce some carbs back in, but I never recovered. From that time on I've been overtly hypothyroid and very unwell. I seem to be insulin resistant now and I've ballooned in weight to really unhealthy levels.

I will never do that again. My current HRT specialist is pushing diet doctor and threatening me with diabetes. She never listens when I tell her what happened. Doctors never seem to listen. But they are very good at fat shaming.

[Naomi8 in reply to FancyPants54]

I am not thinking of risking trying keto myself,despite Sarah Myhill's endorsements.

My husband going on the DietDoctor plan will encourage me to reduce my carbs a bit & stick to gluten-free,which will hopefully improve my health.I may even lose some weight & get back into the cords I bought a year ago

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to FancyPants54]

Sounds grim but it works for an awful lot of people though and it did get me out of T2diabetes so I’m thankful for it as I’m sure is Naomi18s husband.

Think I’d say I wasn’t exactly low carb - I always ate carbs - just ate ‘different’ carbs to things like jacket potatoes and grain based foods like cereals and bread that caused my blood sugar to spike. I found out by testing my blood sugar before and after everything I ate and recording my findings for quite a while - I was only wanting to find and eliminate the foods that spiked my blood sugar.

I didn’t do ‘high fat’, I just wasn’t scared of normal fats. I always ate butter and I still cut the fat off my pork chops etc. I never ever felt unwell but I very much doubt if I was in ketosis either.

[Naomi8 in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Hubby is now in ketosis after 3 days ketosis flu & feeling very good.I think its right for him,but I will be following your approach.Wondering if I should get a blood sugar monitor to check which foods spike my blood sugar.Please pm me more info on your discoveries about which carbs worked for you.I want to reduce carbs,eat the right carbs for me & avoid pre diabetes & lose this weight,caused by 18 months on an SSRI following 2 years on T3-only,which I believe have both affected my sugar metabolism,(in addition to 20 years diagnosed Hashi)not to mention oestrogen dominance,post- menopause,excercise resistance blah blah blah

[Hidden]

I have a lovely pharmacist and have just had a long chat re flu jab. It is for the most part live but inert. Apparently the virus has a coating of enzimes that enable it to get into cells and reproduce.The enzemes are treated to stop the virus being able to do this. I will however save having it untill I get to a point in life when I feel I dont want to continue.As ways to die I dont think flu is the worst.

[Fruitandnutcase]

I’ve been offered a flu jab for years and have never taken my surgery up on their offer. I’ve got several autoimmune conditions and I don’t want all that stuff put interest my body. So far I’ve been ok.

I wash my hands frequently throughout the day, avoid touching my face when I’m out, I try the avoid touching things like handrails when I’m on buses, in stores etc and I try to keep well hydrated, oh and years ago I worked with someone who had been a nurse and she said if anyone sneezed or coughed near her she used to hold her breath until she had moved out of their air! Sounded mad to me but once someone has told you that, just try and stop yourself doing it 😉

Now after what Angel of the North has said I’m going to avoid school kids like the plague and I have to agree that in spite of it not being a live vaccine and it not spreading flu or whatever to others years ago when I was working I used to get the most awful colds whenever a colleague I car shared with had her flu jab and we have a friend who is positively ill after he gets his annual flu jab. I always wonder why he bothers, he’s the same every year so I’m really sceptical about flu vaccines not making people ill.

My husband works with the public and is also eligible for a jab - not because of that though, he feels the same and hasn’t had one either. He washes his hands a lot too and keeps himself hydrated.

I think it’s up to the individual what they do.

[Hidden in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

I agree with though methods to avoid colds and flu but I think it is better not to be scared of these bugs. I almost never get a cold and have not had flu since a child. I am one of those people who would give someone with flu a cuddle, was exposed to loads of infections at work and had children. I have had one cold in 12 years. Perhaps I am lucky but I tend to think the exposure has really helped my immune system. Vitamin D I thinki read once by the viut D council is a better preventer of flu and colds than any of the flu jabs and the fact that we all catch them in the winter backs this up.

[FancyPants54]

The trouble with most of this post is that it is just anecdotal. If we are going down that route I can say that my very unwell 87 year old Dad on an ice cream box full of tablets and barely able to breathe, never reacts to his flu jab. He's just had his a couple of weeks ago. Mum never reacts either. But that isn't evidence for or against. I worried myself sick about it last year. I had never had one before, but now, with under medicated hypothyroidism and terrible menopause symptoms, I felt I would be under severe strain if I caught flu. I made the appointment - then cancelled it. I worried some more. I made another appointment and I had it and nothing happened at all.

Not sure what I will do this year.

[Hidden in reply to FancyPants54]

I think it is good to acknowledge that your dad does not react it is relevant. The trouble with non anecdotal information is that it almost always has an agenda. in this case profit driven, as well as a political cover up. I imagine that the flu jab will be phased out for the nasal drops or whatever and not be so nasty. If the nasal drops affect babies in the way the flu jab affects the elderly we will soon all hear about it as there will be a huge out cry.

[Hidden in reply to FancyPants54]

Also anecdotal evidence is good enough for the court system. It is profoundly reliable. the fact that is does not affect your family is important information. Does it only affect people badly some years? Have they improved it? Is there a genetic componant to not reacting? My anecdotal evidence backed up by a couple of other nurses and a few familys is extremely powerful information. It would be headline news for weeks if it became public and might well be the end of the flu jab as well as a big re think about what the NHS spends its money on. The fact that the medical profession don't listen to anecdotal information ie what their patients tell them is why we have ended up in a mess with aout thyroids in the first place. The official information, the same place as they get all their information about the flu jab is that they are providing good thyroid care and that the TSH test is reliable. That what they are told in BMJ and by thyroid association and by drug companys and all the NHS training in the same way as they are told the flu jab saves lives. That is the paperwork they see and the apparent science quoted at them. I was the same when I was a nurse I accepted the information often without question. I was giving out all these pharaceticals and sometimes damaging drug to demented people who may well have just needed some B12 to be cured. So were the doctors. I was too tired to question and it certainly wasn't encouraged.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Hidden]

I am shocked at how little notice medical practitioners give to vitamins and minerals and enzyme activity. The ridiculous throttling of B12 injections for pernicious anaemia patients and the lack of diagnosis of the same in others. The poor thyroid care and the insistence that adrenal issues, unless Cushing's or Addison's, don't exist. The fact that we are "fine" if our iron levels are 1 point off the bottom of the reference range and "treatable" if 1 point below the range. Ridiculous, so you are right. I do agree.

I'm not sure what to do about the flu jab this year. I might not bother. 50/50 at the moment.

[Marz]

healthunlocked.com/api/redi...

An earlier post/thread !

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Marz]

Very interesting Marz. As you know I’m not one for taking up the vaccine offer and that article certainly won’t persuade me otherwise.

I’m going to stock up on vitamins C and D. Actually with all the sun we had this summer I was pleasantly surprised at my vitamin D levels when I did my most recent blood test. I hadn’t been taking any so it could only have been the sun ..... and possibly my two egg omelette every morning in life.

Unfortunately our weather is so dismal now and I’m so well wrapped up these days that I started back on my vitamin D spray again last week.

[Marz in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

So pleased for you that the sun brought benefit beyond warmth ! Enjoy your omelettes 😊 Am off to have my annual blood tests on Wednesday - some 6 months late !! For the first time in years I have been forgetting my vits and minerals so the results will be interesting ...

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Marz]

It will be interesting to find out what’s going on inside your body . I did a test not that long ago so I was surprised and pleased to see my vit D was so good. Sadly it’s going to be a long time before we get any more sun like we’ve had this summer. Good luck with yours.

[Anthea55]

You said 'latest posts had no reply'. I saw them marked 'Be the first to reply', but when I went into them they had replies, so there's a bug in the system somewhere. This one now has 32 replies, but still marked 'Be the first'.

[Naomi8]

AhA!Thanks for that!