Thyroid UK
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Do things get worse before better on an increase???(levo only)

So once again after addressing all vitamins, i have increased to 100mcg of levo.. each time i increase to more than 75 i suffer with bad mental side effects!..

(HAVE BEEN OK ON 100 FOR 9 YEARS!! STRANGE)

(IM UNDER AN ENDO)

I have stuck with the increase this time, it will be 2 weeks tomorrow on 100...

Side effects im getting are mentally not physically.. my brain starts feeling weird almost hurts and i go into like a strange mood depressive drop and feel anxious its horrible then i come out of it... rhen feel normal, im happier on 100 but more anxious!.. but more depressed on 75 i cant win!...

Will these affects fade away when my body gets used to the increase??

I know i have had many strange symptoms and each goes away then something else pops up... please someone tell me things will settle and its just the hormones causing this!??

Results on 87.5mcg of levo

Tsh 10 (0.37 - 4.5)

Ft4 19 (11 - 23)

Ft3 4.3 (3.1 - 6.8)

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What happened with the Tiromel. Are you still taking that?

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I was on it 2 weeks and it was making me severly aggressive and angry and depressed!.. i had to stop it, and now trying an increase in levo once again!, until i see my new endo on the 1st of may x

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Were bloods ever drawn? Below.

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ThyroidObsessed, can you tell us a bit more about how it went with the T3? It may be possible to do things slightly differently, like maybe take it even slower. Did you have problems on the 5mcg dose? Or just when you tried to raise?

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Not sure if bloods were ever ran to establish need for T3. Said purchased T3 on own, as something to try.

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I tried t3 as my tsh was at 10 but fy4 was also top at range with the ft3 being low to mid range...

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Hi ThyroidObsessed, it's 10 days later, now.

Are you still having the problems you wrote about in the original post?

At the moment your bloods look like you are very undermedicated, and also you are a poor converter of T3. So increasing your dose of Levo would be good, adding T3 would be even better.

I agree with others that you should post your vitamin results, as it may be that things can be tweaked to improve them.

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Latest vitamin results are

B12 900 (197- 771)

Folate 15 (2.0- 18.7)

Ferritin 70 (20.0-130.0)

Vitamin D 100

TPO antibody 40 [<34]

Tsh 10 (0.27- 4.5)

Ft4 20 (11- 23)

Ft3 4 (3.1- 6.8)

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These vitamins do look good to me! You've got SeasideSusie in your thread who is the best for vitamins, so she might notice something I can't see.

Have you looked at adrenal fatigue? I think that is the next step.

As well as returning to the highest dose of T3 you did well on before, which I think was 3mcg.

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I do nit have adrenal fatigue thats the thing i do not get tired at all and always got lots of energy..

I suffer with mental issues i feel weird headed on 100 of levo and feel like im going mad and bad anxiety but when i drop to 75 or even 87.5 i get depressed and start with ocd like symptoms and breathlessness i cant win!!... im just hoping this new endo can help on the 1st of may... in the mean time im just taking the levo at 100 and 75 for a couple of days a week x

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At the moment are very undermedicated. This will cause one set of symptoms, which can be depression (or anxiety), feeling cold, gaining weight, constipation, dry skin, heart issues, etc and hundreds of other things.

Adrenal problems can cause another set of things. What you're describing sounds a lot like high cortisol. This is more things like wired and tired, not being able to relax, anxiety and a feeling of restlessness. Also not having the right times, like hungriness and tiredness.

Although both are quite amorphous and have a lot of crossover.

The biggest thing that makes this look like adrenal fatigue (which can be low cortisol or high cortisol - if you have high cortisol for a long time eventually your adrenals will get too tired to keep going, and it will end up low. At one time I had v high morning cosrtisol, and very low the rest of the day) is that you can't raise your dose, which is a very classic symptom of adrenal fatigue.

As I say, one approach to this is to raise T3 super slow. The other approach is to look into adrenal fatigue and treat it. Ideally you want to do both at once.

But the most important end goal is to raise your thyroid hormone. You won't feel better until you get those levels up (although this can be a very long task - just keep taking baby steps and moving in the right direction).

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Of course bloods were ran, i woukd have never tried t3 without thinking i needed it!.. iv been told on here by several people that my ft3 is low compared to my high ft4.. i am not stupid, i would never mess around with powerful hormones, it was my last resort, i am back on levo only and still suffering but hoping my next endo helps me...

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I took it real slow started on 3mcg then after a week increased to 5mcg then started getting real depressed in a horrible mood and really angry all the time...

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If you were fine on 3mcg, I would get back to that, and stay on it for a lot more weeks. The 'standard' time to wait is 6 weeks, as this is the time it takes your body to settle down. Sometimes with T3 or NDT people increese faster to get up to a substantial dosr. But the fast raising is only for people who do well on it, and find raiding easy.

It's quite common to have the problems you have - finding it very difficult to raise T3. These people tend to feel speeded up, hyper type symptoms when they raise the dose.

This can be caused by adrenal problems. So it would be a good idea to check all your vitamins, as they contribute, too. And if you're thinking about going down the route to investigate adrenal fatigue that would be a good idea.

Luckily your a very clearly show you are undermedicated, and very clearly show you need T3. I think you should just focus on managing to increase T3 however you can. Getting good T3 levels reduces anxiety and depression, so you will eventually start to feel better.

The main way you can get this increese is by going super slow - far slower than you did before. I'd say start on 3mcg of T3 again. If you were fine on that before, that's your baseline. Stay on that for about 6 weeks, only then start thinking about increasing. Try to go up to 5mcg again. Try it for a day or two, carefully notice how you feel. If you get any speedy feelings, drop back to 3mcg again, and wait a few weeks before trying again. If you do well stay on 5mcg for 6 weeks again, and then try 7. You might only need to go up to about 10mcg, so you will be here in a few months.

But look into your vitamins, too. And if you have the headspace look into adrenal fatigue. Start with vitamins. Get tested for ferritin, folate, vit D, and vit B12.

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Latest vitamin results are

B12 900 (197- 771)

Folate 15 (2.0- 18.7)

Ferritin 70 (20.0-130.0)

Vitamin D 100

TPO antibody 40 [<34]

Tsh 10 (0.27- 4.5)

Ft4 20 (11- 23)

Ft3 4 (3.1- 6.8)

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Apologies ThyroidObsessed, I made a mistake earlier and said SeasideSusie was in your thread, but I was getting confused.

To me these vitamins look good. But I am not much of an expert! There are definitely no glaring problems.

Ferritin is slightly below halfway, but I don't know if that matters. I have the same vitamin D number, and even though its quite good I take 2,000iu per day (with K2), because 100 is good, but not excellent.

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You say you have addressed the vitamins-how and when?

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See below

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Yes vitamins have been supplemented for the past year and a half and also eating half a pound of liver once a week, vitamins are all now near top of range but depression and anxiety still persists...

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Hmm... You are taking a lot of liver, and your ferritin is still below halfway. I don't know enough to know if this is an issue, but I believe even just a small serving of liver per week is enough to raise iron a lot, so I'd expect yours to be high.

This might be a clue! Have you had iron problems in the past (ferritin is stored iron)? Is that the reason you eat so much liver?

Makes me wonder if it would be worth asking for an iron panel. This is a package of blood tests similar to a full blood count, and tells you if there are issues with your iron overall.

But I'm afraid that's all that I know.

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@SeSeasideSusie this member has anxiety and a lot of discomfort when trying to raise thyroid hormone, despite being very undermedicated.

Vitamins overall look quite good (I don't know enough to really comment).

But it struck me as strange that they eat this large portion of liver per week, but ferritin is still well below halfway. I thought liver would raise it pretty high? The rest of vitamins posted throughout the thread.

Ferritin 70 (20.0-130.0)

Maybe this is nothing, I don't know enough to know! But clutching at straws for what might be a clue, as this member is having a hard time!

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If you are drinking alcohol to try to combat your anxiety and depression, as you mention in your recent post, than this is probably why you have these problems. How many years have you been doing this?

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Nope never drank alcohol in my life its only been the last few weeks that i have started drinking it a few glasses of wine a night to relieve my anxiety and depression... im under the endo at the minute i will be seeing my 3rd endo(supposingly a good one) on the 1st of may im really hoping he can help me...

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I sure hope you have better luck with endo's than I and others have had. I'm awaiting my follow up appointment with my 4th endo. She is in private practice. She's trying to direct me to using a certain lab, one that I do not normally use. Almost all of my history for almost 15 years is online with one particular lab. I am suspicious of what I once heard, that doctors can receive kickbacks from sending patients to certain labs. This endo told me that she doesn't like my lab because they've had too many screw ups. Well, in talking with the guy at the lab she wants me to use, he said she formerly used Quest Diagnostics. Hmmm. Well, Quest is not the lab I use, which she claims messes up. I'm most likely going to continue to use my normal lab. It's within a huge hospital system. If it was such a bad lab, people would be dying, wouldn't they?

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I'm at abut of a loss. Usually if your body won't let you increase meds it's because your vitamins are too low. Can you post your actual results you have and the ranges so we can comment on that. Particularly important are Vit D, B12, folate and ferritin as they help your thyroid to function better and also address any hint of bad converstion and also can stop some of the symptoms you may have so three very good reasons to look may be more thoroughly into those.

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Latest vitamin results are

B12 900 (197- 771)

Folate 15 (2.0- 18.7)

Ferritin 70 (20.0-130.0)

Vitamin D 100

TPO antibody 40 [<34]

Tsh 10 (0.27- 4.5)

Ft4 20 (11- 23)

Ft3 4 (3.1- 6.8)

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Latest vitamin results are

B12 900 (197- 771)

Folate 15 (2.0- 18.7)

Ferritin 70 (20.0-130.0)

Vitamin D 100

TPO antibody 40 [<34]

Tsh 10 (0.27- 4.5)

Ft4 20 (11- 23)

Ft3 4 (3.1- 6.8)

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Strange. May be Vit D could be a little higher but nothing is screeming at me. So how long have your vitamins etc been good? I'm only asking because I took 5 months to reverse my bad conversion but having said that it included the time when I was getting my levels opimal to help the conversion.

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Hi ThyroidObsessed. Have you had any pituitary issues that you know of? Hypopituitarism is a condition where your TSH is high, as well as FT4. Was your TSH and FT4 high even before starting thyroid medication, or did you arrive at your current levels after starting medication? High TSH and FT4 can indicate some sort of a pituitary problem. Do you have any hair loss anywhere on your body? Having any head aches? Rashes?

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Hi im not sure what my levels were on diagnosis it was 9 years ago, and didnt know anything about my condition as iv always been ok until a year and a half ago when i started with panic attacks anxiety amd depression for no reason...

My pituitary was checked by my last endo also absorption was checked and was ok, and also cortisol... no not having any hair loss or headaches but do have like little rash little spots on shoulders i was thinking that i may be something im intolerate too in the mercurypharma brand, but mercurypharma is the only brand i can tolerate to an extent...

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Hi. Have you taken thyroid meds 9 years? Can you think of anything that had changed at or before the time you started having panic attacks and depression: any illness, trauma, injury, extra stress, moving, new job, loved one passing away, change in eating habits and diet?

That's so great that your endo already checked your pituitary, so you have baseline diagnostics available to compare. How long ago did he check you?

The name "mercurypharma" made kinda made me chuckle. Mercury is a toxic metal. Accumulation of it can trigger many diseases. So funny whoever named that company chose that health ruining word as part of the name. Silly people! ;-)

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Yes been on levo 9 years thats why its all so very confusing, as iv always been ok no obvious symptoms and never had depression or anxiety...

I did have a loved one pass away but that was a year before it started and i wasnt a mess or anything like that i take things in my stride iv alwayd been a very calm and collected person and got lots of patience... diet change none... though since this all started i eat better than i have ever done also liver once a week and also take supplements since joining here over a year ago but still no change in levels ft4 still high and tsh high... im due another thyroid test in 3 weeks, i will have been on 100 for 6 weeks by then... really hoping things have leveled out i really do... i really would like to just stay on levo as its always been ok for me.. im hoping now vitamins and everything is in order that the levo works the best it can...

But we shall see in 3 weeks...😞

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Hi again. :-) What have your antibodies been through those 9 years? I see that your TPO indicates Hashimoto's. Is this new? What are the results of your TGab? It's possible that you've developed an increase in antibodies since diagnosed, and this could be contributing to your newest symptoms and unbalance of FT3, FT4 and TSH. Was your TSH and FT4 lower in the past, or were they both high all along?

Sometimes when we internalize stress, it comes out in different ways in our bodies. We think we are handling things in a controlled way, but the impact leaks out in less obvious ways.

If on 100 and FT4 is so high, that would possibly indicate that that is too much T4 for you. You might be needing a lot more T3 instead of all that T4. Your quite low FT3 in comparison to FT4 could be from conversion problems. Low FT3 does all sorts of fun things to people.

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