I am UAT. Have been taking Acv for acid reflux but need to take Omeprazole to get it back in control. Would l be able to take ACV as well?

[stellahils25]

I know UAT suffer with low stomach acid so woder if taking ACV at the same time would be counter productive. I know it helps with my constipation. Thank you in advance for your help.

[Marz]

Hi and Welcome to the Forum

Have you any thyroid test results with ranges you could share. LOW stomach acid is very common when Hypo and taking a PPI will make it much worse. Perhaps you are under medicated. PPI's are known to have a negative effect on the metabolism of B12 in the stomach and other vitals - they block acid which you need to break down proteins ....

Have you tried Betaine HCL ?

When B12 is low you can suffer from neurological symptoms - which sadly are all too common ....

Do you have Hashimotos ?

[stellahils25 in reply to Marz]

Hi Thank you for replying.

I take 50 mcg of levo and the doctor belives it is Hashimotos as my sister is Hypo as well A couple of years ago after a camera down my throat, I was diagnosed with acid reflux and started taking Omeprazole 20mg. After reading up on the subject (UAT and low stomach acid) l swapped the Omeprazole for Apple Cider Vinegar, which has kept my acid reflux at bay and helped with constipation. September last year my symptoms started returning and I developed a tickly cough. I now have a feeling that my ears are blocked and ache and my throat is blocked. I feel pretty rough. This morning I woke to a feeling of mucus stuck in my throat so I spat it out and it had blood in it (sorry too much detail). I think the acid reflux has caused it. This worried me so I took an Omeprazole. I know this is not good as we don't have enough stomach acid but didn't know what else to do.

I haven't tried Betaine HCL I have not heard about it.

My latest test

vitamin D 65

FTA 13.5

Cortisol 274

TSH 2.27

Ferritin 122

[stellahils25 in reply to stellahils25]

Forgot to say I am gluten ,dairy and soya free.

[Marz in reply to stellahils25]

You need tests to rule out Hashimotos - the anti-bodies are TPO and Tg - both need testing but the NHS will only test one - sadly. You also need to have the FT3 tested - am assuming the FTA is FT4 No ranges so difficult to tell is you are on the right track with your dose but your FT4 looks VERY low and when on thyroid treatment the TSH is better around 1 or under. Your dose of 50mcg is a starter dose and should have been raised after 6/8 from starting.

Are you supplementing VitD ?

You also need to test the B12 AND Folate.

PPI's are a multi billion dollar money spinner for Big Pharma with out a conscience that they are causing so many problems. If you look at the PIL - it may tell you that it is designed as a short course around 8 weeks. It also depletes you of Magnesium - a vital mineral for the workings of the body

Have you had a chest infection or an infection that could have caused blood to appear ? - maybe check it out if it happens again.....

VitC to bowel tolerance should sort out constipation along with magnesium !

[stellahils25 in reply to Marz]

No I haven't had an infection of any sort. I take a general calcium with vit D and multi vit and mineral. I will check out vit c and magnesium. Also a visit to the doctors for the other tests. Thank you so much for your help.

[Marz in reply to stellahils25]

You didn't mention how much VitD you are taking - a dose of around 5000 IU's would be appropriate for the result you have. You need to be taking co-factors with VitD3 - VitK2-MK7 and Magnesium. No real need to take VitD and Calcium - as VitD improves the uptake of calcium from foods - that is why VitK2-MK7 needs to be taken alongside to ensure calcium does not remain in the arteries and soft tissues - but is directed to the bones and teeth.

A multi-vit and mineral will not give you enough of anything and I believe there are unwanted ingredients too - have you checked ? If you have Hashimotos for instance - then iodine is not a good ingredient.

Maybe add calcium onto your tests - important to know levels if supplementing D3.

[stellahils25 in reply to Marz]

I don't take any extra vit D just the calcium with vit D to help absorption. I will ask for calcium test as well.

[Marz in reply to stellahils25]

How much VitD in your tablet that also contains Calcium - was what I meant ? How does calcium help VitD be absorbed - sorry confused.com You will find it difficult to raise your level of D3 to 100 if you are taking too little !

[stellahils25 in reply to Marz]

lol Vit D helps the body absorb calcium. Vit D 2.5 ug Calcium 400mg per tablet,

I take 2 a day.

I have been messaging SlowDragon on here and she/he suggest I get blood test done privately.

[Marz in reply to stellahils25]

You do not need extra calcium just the VitD - especially as you are not taking VitK2- MK7. Why do you need extra calcium ?

[stellahils25 in reply to Marz]

Because I am dairy free.

[Marz in reply to stellahils25]

I think you would enjoy reading the book - VitaminK2 and the Calcium Paradox - by Kate Rheaume Bleue - it may help to explain things differently about calcium. Are you worried about osteoporosis ?

draxe.com/top-10-calcium-ri...

The above link takes you to the Top 10 Calcium rich foods - and it's not all about dairy

[stellahils25 in reply to Marz]

Yes worried about osteoporosis. I have looked at the link. The main foods are diary. I do eat watercress and nuts.

[Marz in reply to stellahils25]

Calcium is involved in the breaking down of old bone - osteoclasts - not building new - osteoblasts. Check out Dr Myhill on-line and her info about osteoporisis. Its magnesium boron and lots of other things you need. Did you check out the book ?

[stellahils25 in reply to Marz]

I didn't realise that too much calcium was so bad. I looked at the book it looks interesting. I will see if I can get it from the library if not I will order it . I have just read Dr Myhill about osteoporosis and a link about low stomach acid. I won't worry about being dairy free or extra calcium and I have ordered some Betaine HCL Pepsin capsules.

[Marz in reply to stellahils25]

I appreciate it is a great deal for you to take in with so much information. Take it slowly and read through all the posts in a quiet moment and make a shopping list of things to do

Hope you soon feel well. Keep reading and asking questions here and everyone will be happy to help ....

[stellahils25 in reply to Marz]

I will. Thank you for spending so much of you time helping me.

[Marz in reply to stellahils25]

You're welcome !

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to stellahils25]

TSH of 2.27 is too high when on Levothyroxine

Your low stomach acid is likely because you are under medicated

How long have you been on Levothyroxine? 50mcg is only a starter dose. Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after each dose increase.

Dose increased in 25mcg steps until TSH is around one and FT4 towards top of range and FT3 at least half way in range

Dr Toft, past president of the British Thyroid Association and leading endocrinologist, states in Pulse Magazine,

"The appropriate dose of levothyroxine is that which restores euthyroidism and serum TSH to the lower part of the reference range - 0.2-0.5mU/l.

In this case, free thyroxine is likely to be in the upper part of its reference range or even slightly elevated – 18-22pmol/l.

Most patients will feel well in that circumstance. But some need a higher dose of levothyroxine to suppress serum TSH and then the serum-free T4 concentration will be elevated at around 24-28pmol/l.

This 'exogenous subclinical hyperthyroidism' is not dangerous as long as serum T3 is unequivocally normal – that is, serum total around T3 1.7nmol/l (reference range 1.0-2.2nmol/l)."

You can obtain a copy of the articles from Thyroid UK email print it and highlight question 6 to show your doctor

please email Dionne:
[e-mail]

Ask your GP for dose increase

Assuming you are in UK that vitamin D result is too low. You need to supplement to get to around 100nmol.

Better You vitamin D mouth spray is good as avoids poor gut function

You need B12 and folate tested. Likely to be low with low stomach acid

For full evaluation you ideally need TSH, FT4, FT3, TT4, TPO and TG antibodies, plus vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 tested

See if you can get full thyroid and vitamin testing from GP. Unlikely to get FT3

Essential to know your FT4 and FT3

Private tests are available

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have money off offers.

All thyroid tests should be done as early as possible in morning and fasting and don't take Levo in the 24 hours prior to test, delay and take straight after. This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results

Lots of posts on here about how to improve with Apple cider vinegar or Betaine HCL

Lots of people seem to have good results with Slippery elm too

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/hypochl...

scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/3-...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Other things to help heal gut lining

Bone broth

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

Probiotics

carolinasthyroidinstitute.c...

Importance of magnesium

hypothyroidmom.com/two-vita...

[stellahils25 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you for your information. I was diagnosed about 3 years ago and put straight on 50 mcg. I was tested soon after starting Levro but was told no change was needed. I am under a Endocrinologist who I have see twice and have a yearly blood test. Next time I will go armed with all the information you lovely people have given me.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to stellahils25]

Would strongly recommend getting private tests. Essential to know FT4 and FT3

We see thousands on here left under medicated for decades

[stellahils25 in reply to SlowDragon]

Will the doctors prescribe if the private test show I need to up my levro and need extra vitamins ?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to stellahils25]

Yes they should do

They may want to run their own test to confirm, but many will accept results as is

Remember

All thyroid tests should be done as early as possible in morning and fasting and don't take Levo in the 24 hours prior to test, delay and take straight after. This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results

[stellahils25 in reply to SlowDragon]

Ok thanks.

[Treepie1 in reply to stellahils25]

SeemDr Malcolm Kendrick ' S latest blog on vitamins and heart disease .Mentions Omeprazole.

[Marz in reply to Treepie1]

drmalcolmkendrick.org

[shaws Administrator]

You can supplement with Betaine and Pepsin tablets which will provide the acid needed to dissolve food. It is taken with each meal I believe. When hypo and due to the symptoms of low or high - doctors are apt to prescribe omeprazole which reduces stomach acid. I believe it is because the symptoms are nearly identical and doctors don't know about low stomach acid, they prescribe for symptoms.

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

We need stomach acid.

[stellahils25 in reply to shaws]

Thank you, I have read your link and think i need a trip to the chemist. I had not heard of Betaine and Pepsin tablets. I have suffered with stomach problems a while even when taking Apple Cider Vinager.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to stellahils25]

You probably won't get Betaine HCL with Pepsin at a chemist. Online is best, and make sure you get the capsule form rather than tablets, taken with plenty of water, they need to get to the stomach before they start working. Have a look at Thorne or Now, available from Amazon.

[stellahils25 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you I will look now.

[stellahils25 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi SeasideSusie, l have the Now capsules from Amazon but not sure how to take them. on the packaging it says take one capsule at the beginning of each meal. Do not take on an empty stomach. What I don't understand is your stomach is going to be empty before a meal How do you take yours?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to stellahils25]

Stella

Take them during your meal rather than at the very beginning. Have a few mouthfuls of food then take the capsule.

I didn't find they helped me (we're all different), I got up to 8 tablets during a meal and it didn't make any difference, so I gave up and started using ACV.

I remember reading that you should take them with a meal containing protein, so possibly main meal of the day.

[stellahils25 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you 🙂

[shaws Administrator in reply to stellahils25]

I also buy Betaine from Amazon. It seems to be that hypo affects our stomach as well as everything else in our body. It is a learning curve but many members have recovered their health.

[Rmichelle]

Sorry but i think the other 2 members are right, gps dish these ppis out like smarties when they just mask a hundred problems, my gp gave me these and gave no instructions of when to come of them etc, i discontinued them after a few months as i found out i had a thyroid problem and getting some very nasty side effects from them and not to mention the long term consequences of taking those meds. The rebound effect of coming off them was horrendous and crippled with acid reflux pain for a few weeks. Please think twice before taking these ppis, try other alernatives as these tablets i regard as poison. Sorry just how i feel.😊😊

[Clarrisa in reply to Rmichelle]

Hi, Did you "taper" off the PPI?

[Rmichelle in reply to Clarrisa]

No afraid not i just bit the bullet and went for it, sorry for such late reply-cant sleeo with coughing fits with a nasty cold.xx

[stellahils25 in reply to Rmichelle]

Thank you for your reply. Hope you feel better soon.

[Treepie in reply to Rmichelle]

Rmichelle Get Olbas menthol pastilles .Hold in roof of mouth with tongue . Do not suck or it will not last.May need another in middle of night. Works for me but the taste is something to get used to!

The fruit flavoured are not as effective.

[stellahils25 in reply to Clarrisa]

I only took them for a short time, so just stopped them and went on to ACV.

[Nanaedake]

You might need to check you haven't developed an ulcer before taking Betaine with Pepsin. So perhaps worth finding out the reason for the blood first?

Betaine with Pepsin is stronger than ACV and works well. In the end I found it a little too strong for me so I stick to ACV but other people need it.

[stellahils25 in reply to Nanaedake]

Thank you

[Angel_of_the_North]

ACV and PPIs do the opposite so you should not take them together. ACV improves digestion by adding acid so you can digest food more effectively while PPIs prevent proper digestion by neutralising the acid need to digest food. PPIs were not designed to be taken for longer than 4-6 weeks and you should take more B12 while taking them as you'll end up deficient otherwise. PPIs are not the right treatment for low stomach acid - they make it even lower.

[Angel_of_the_North]

If you think you might have an ulcer, you need to be tested for heliobacter (the main cause). If positive you need a course of antibiotics to kill the bugs. Common with low stomach acid

[stellahils25 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Thank you, how do they test for it?

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to stellahils25]

Usually a stool test or a breath test (urea), sometimes a blood test. Ask Gp to be tested for helicobacter pylori in case you have a peptic ulcer. He might also ask for a stomach lining biopsy, but I think the other options are cheaper, so unlikely.

[stellahils25 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Thank you