Armour - how much should I take?: Hi I intend to... - Thyroid UK

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Armour - how much should I take?

Hi I intend to self medicate with Armour Thyroid 1 grain (60mg). I am presently on Levothyroxine 50 mg but not working. Should I cut the 1 grain in half and just have half a grain or take the whole thing?

My TSH is 3.670

T4 - 23.14

T3 - 4.3

TPO - Negative

Thank you

35 Replies
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Can you get armour on prescription in the uk

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I dont think you can get it on the NHS but I am not the one to ask as I am new to this. You can see particular sympathetic Docs privately and get private blood tests and then they will prescribe giving you a private prescription which you then have to find somewhere yourself to get the prescription done. Its all very expensive and nothing on the NHS as far as I know but I may be wrong. Thyroid UK have a list of docs and endrincologists who are sympathetic to using NDT if you contact Louise Roberts at Thyroid UK she will give you the list. You can buy it abroad but you will have to ask other members for reliable sources.

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Could you put the ranges for the Frees, please? The numbers on their own are meaningless.

Even without the ranges, it would appear you have a conversion problem. So, there's no guarantee that Armour would work for you, either. It might be better to try adding some T3 to your levo. That way, you can control the ratio of T4 to T3, and avoid having large amounts of unconverted T4 in your system.

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Oh thank you - so confusing

TSH - 3.670 (0.270-4.200)

Free T4 - 23.14 (12.00 -22)

Free T3 4.3 (3.1-6.8)

TPO <60 (negative)

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Did you take your levo before the that test?

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Your conversion certainly looks poor

What are your levels of vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12.

If they are low this can hinder conversion

Your TPO are negative, but have you ever had TG antibodies checked?

Any obvious gut issues going on

You might also consider DIO2 gene test

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

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I think they some are too high not too low! What does that mean?

Ferritin 81.9 (13-150)

Folate 28.6 (3.9 - 26.8)

B12 781 (197-771)

Vit D3 106.6 (optimally replete)

Please can you tell me what a D102 gene test is?

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Oh sorry just seen your link on D102 - thank you!

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Very easy postal saliva spit test - but you have to pay for counselling too so it's £120

But if it tests positive then a) you know you need T3

B) you might argue your case with endo for NHS T3

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How interesting thank you i did not know anything about that

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Do you supplement for these results to be so good?

Also saw your other post about trouble sleeping

If you supplement vitamin D, do you also take B complex

See this article about how vitamin d affects the gut and B vitamins

drgominak.com/sleep/vitamin...

Have you tried gluten free, might help sleep too

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Yes I do supplement but I have stopped since those blood results as they are over the top!

Thank you for the advice!

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Very interesting advice about Vit D - my trouble is I have Vitiligo and so have to wear 50 sunscreen all the time!

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Well most of us hypo's have to supplement vitamin D

Especially if gut issues or gluten intolerance

If you decide to add B complex remember to stop taking 3-4 days before any blood tests as biotin may falsely affect test results

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You shouldn't stop supplementing, you now need to find a maintenance dose to keep levels optimal. Recommended levels are

Vit D - 100-150nmol/L according to the Vit D Council, also cofactors needed, especially K2-MK7 and magnesium vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

B12 - very top of range, even 900-1000 for us Hypos

Folate - at least half way through range, high in range is fine if B12 is good

Ferritin - half way through range - you can eat liver regularly to maintain a good level rather than supplement

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Thank you yes i have just got to get it right!

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THANK YOU SlowDragon for this great post . It's very informative information .

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Can anyone please recommend a " sympathetic " Endocrinologist in London or Kent ? I've been on Levothyroxin 20 odd years never felt much different . But I don't feel

Confident to self medicate - or guess at trying T3 or Porcine tablets or Armour . I feel

Overwhelmed enough with my health I just want. A proper doctor who knows his Thyroid please ? .

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Avidreader, you'll get better answers if you post your own question, in a new thread. This thread is three days old, and low down on the list, now. Not many more people are going to read it.

I can't help you personally, because I don't live in the UK. But, you should be aware that it is very difficult to find an endo that knows anything about thyroid. They are usually diabetes specialists, and have some very peculiar ideas about thyroid - they are not the hormone specialists the name suggests! You could be worse off with an endo, than you are without one! So, do take care, and do your research before committing yourself. :)

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If you email Louise Roberts at Thyroid UK she can send you a list of sympathetic Doctors and Edrincologists in the UK

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No

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Surely Armour includes T3 so surely it will help me with the fact i cannot convert T4 to T3? Or am I not understanding all this properly?

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Armour still contains T4.

Email Louise at Thyroid Uk for list of recommended thyroid specialists

You probably need T3 adding

louise.roberts@thyroiduk.org.uk

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Have you checked your selenium- it is important for conversion of T4 to T3. Have you checked your RT3 ?

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Thank you for your reply. No i have not checked level but just bought some selenium!

No idea about RT3? what does that tell you?

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Laraline,

Elevated RT3 (reverse T3) could indicate conversion problems (conversion from T4 to T3). It is important to check RT3 together with the other tests in order to know the T3/ RT3 ratio. The following article can sheds some light on RT3.

Also, I would recommend to check your selenium levels before starting supplements- it matters if the level is very low, low, normal or high!

I hope that helps

holtorfmed.com/treating-thy...

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Oh thank you so much to learn!

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You are right, hypothyroidism is a very complex condition, with a lot of coexisting nutritional deficiencies. Unfortunately, it is extremely oversimplified by the existing medical dogma.

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Is that 'no' in reply to my last question about taking your levo before the test?

If so, you are a very bad converter.

Yes, Armour includes T3, but it also contains a lot of T4 : 38 mcg T4 and 9mcg T3 in one grain. That's a lot of T4 compared to a little T3 - 9 mcg T3 is not going to raise your FT3 by very much! So, you'll need more than one grain. And, that will mean more T4 that you can't convert. And, all that unconverted T4 will accumulate - as it is doing at the moment - and convert to rT3. Excess rT3 could block your T3 receptors, meaning that the good T3 cannot get into the cells. So, even though you may have good levels of FT3 in your blood, you will still be hypo because it isn't getting into your cells. You see what I mean?

If you just add T3 to your levo, you can control the amounts and just have a little T4, and as much T3 as you need.

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Thank you Greygoose, I understand a lot more now yes my 'no' meant i did not take my Levothryroxine the morning of my blood test. So if opt to take just T3 can you possibly PM where I can get it and how do i know how much T3 to take?

Thank you again for this information

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If you want sources of T3, post a new question asking that in the title.

The rule with all hormones is : start low and increase slowly. So, 1/4 pill - 6.25 mcg - at a time, and increase every two weeks.

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Laraline,

You are undermedicated on 50mcg Levothroxine to have TSH 3.67 but your FT4 is already over range so you don't really want to increase to 75mcg. I would start with 1 grain Armour which is equivalent to 65-75mcg Levothyroxine and divide it into two 1/2 grain doses morning and bedtime.

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Thank you - I will follow your advice!

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I did the same thing. They always start most people on 50 mg. of levothyroxine. Switching from that to one grain of Armour is doubling your dose AND adding T3 at one time. The safe thing would be to start off splitting a one grain Armour tablet into 3 or 4 doses taken during waking hours and see how you feel after each one.

Taking natural hormone, because of the T3, usually means working up to your ideal dose more carefully. When I once raised my dose too fast, I took 1 grain of Armour split into 2 doses. After two days, it sped up my system so much that I experienced rapid heart rate and mental disorientation for a few hours. So I had to skip a few days then cut back slightly. Now I'm fine on that dose, but you don't want to overload suddenly due to the immediate release of T3 in Armour.

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Thank you that is very useful

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