Over medicated on Thyroid S

Hi everyone

I need some advice on what to do next, I have been on ndt since end of April and have slowly increased my dose until I reached 2 grains ( which I was going to hold and then test at 6 weeks) However, I now feel very over medicated with awful anxiety, sweating, which is worse at night. I stopped the ndt for 2 days and then yesterday took 1 1/4 grains but now feel worse than ever. Not sure whether to leave off the dose for the next few days and then start again. I have a job interview tomorrow which I am now dreading because I feel so awful. I was previously on 100 mcg Levo.

Many Thanks

Sidd0001

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31 Replies

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  • It's actually very difficult to comment as you post no labs. However, if you are indeed overmedicated and your symptoms are mainly caused by too much T3, they should subside quickly as T3 has a very short half-life (about a day, which means the T3 you take today should have worn off in 48 hours). T4 levels take longer to fall as T4 has a much longer half-life (about a week).

    If your symptoms are indeed caused by too much T3, they should have if not disappeared completely then at least subsided when you stopped NDT for two days.

    2 grains of Thyroid-S will give you 76 mcg of T4 and 18 mcg of T3. Everyone is different, but 2 grains is not that high a dose if you have full-blown hypothyroidism.

    Unfortunately, if your problems are caused by too much NDT, I guess the only thing you can do is stop NDT. As far as I know, there is no way of making it leave your system more quickly...

  • Totally agree with the comment from anna69.

    I was on 125/120mcg Levo 3/4days a week and found initially I only needed 1.25 grains ThyroidS for about 2 years and take 2 now. It is all individual of course. I swapped gradually from Levo to NDT dropping Levo by 25mcg and substituting with 1/4 grain NDT.

    You might find the thyroid patient advocacy guidelines helpful for getting to the right dose of NDT.

    tpauk.com/main/article/trea...

  • Hi there

    Could you please help me with a link to the thyroid patient advocacy guidelines ?

  • The link you were given is not working

  • daniela15 Hi not sure why it is not working. Have posted it before and has been ok.

    If you copy it and paste the link into your internet browser you should get in that way. Or try a search with thyroid patient advocacy treatment with NDT - it may get you to the right article

  • daniela15

    Their server is down so you can't get on their site at the moment - hopefully it is a temporary glitch

  • Even although T3 is 'quick-acting, once it is the receptor cells its work begins and lasts from between one to three days. I'd not take any NDT for the next couple of days (and I am not medically qualified).

    You have doubled your dose from 100mcg to the equivalent of 200mcg, so you should reduce your dose to 1 grain and hold that for a few weeks to see what effect it has on you.

    Also when changing over from one to another thyroid hormone, always take pulse/temp frequently and if either goes too high or you have symptoms stated above reduce dose.

    I am sorry about your interview and hope you manage to do well and try not to worry too much (which I know is impossible).

    web.archive.org/web/2010112...

  • Two days is long enough for almost all the T3 to have been metabolised out of the bloodstream, but it's effects on the cells persists for a week or two. I have always found a day without is enough to clear an excess for me.

    But if you are in the middle of a Hhashimotos flare then you may need to stop your NDT altogether till it is over.

    I think you need a full thyroid panel, to include FT3 with the bloods taken 12 hours after any NDT. And then probably FT3 and FT4 in another month. There is always the possibility that this is not thyroid related.

  • thyroid s is good for a lot of people but didnt agree with me. I felt dreadful on it. It does I belive contain minute amount of aluminium. I came to conclusion I might be very sensitive to that filler and am very careful to avoid it when cooking and stuff now. You could try taking just a tiny amount, and build up very slowly. Hard to do with such tiny tablets but start with less than half a grain and build up very slowly over months. If you take a very tiny amount and still feel bad then probably not for you. I only had to sniff the stuff and I was bed bound for a day.

  • Good grief - aluminium?! I am off to find out

  • Chippysue

    Here's a detailed analysis of what's in thyroidS and all other ndt's

    stopthethyroidmadness.com/a...

  • Aluminium is dangerous and extremely harmful, in cookware, deodorants and worst of all vaccinations, all of which I keep well away from, so now I need to go back to naturethroid or pure

  • Hypothyroidism and high levels of histamine go hand-in-hand due to the sluggishness of the systems of the body. That sluggishness includes slowing down the DAO enzymes necessary to break down histamines.

    This is why we can seemingly be allergic to something today and then weeks or months later not have an issue with it. It all really depends on how high our histamine levels are when we come in contact with things.

    Each person is different as to which things will increase a histamine reaction to the point of going over your histamine comfort levels. But it's part of the reason why so many hypothyroid people have cold like symptoms (sneezing, mucous build up, sinus issues, coughing, throat clearing, etc.) when we don't have a cold at all.

    Helping to control histamine reactions can be as simple as supplementing with a DAO Enzyme. That's the enzyme that breaks down histamine. Hypothyroidism slows down the production of the DAO enzyme much like how it slows down stomach acid. Just as we can supplement stomach acid so that our digestion and absorption is better, we can also supplement to replace the lack of adequate DAO enzyme. You'll feel so much better when you do.

    Whether it's Thyroid-S or an apple, you will be able to handle it and not have an overt histamine reaction when you replace DAO enzymes before ingesting histamine rich foods. (The "richness" depends on your personal histamine levels. Most all foods contain some histamine. The higher your levels, the less things there are that won't cause a histamine reaction.)

    Mucinex and Histame (DAO enzyme replacement) are two products that are excellent to help get through the times when all such symptoms associated with allergies or cold symptoms surface. Eventually, when you get adequate active thyroid hormone in all the cells of your body, those annoying and sometimes debilitating symptoms will vanish.

    Most doctors have not made the connection between high histamines (causing histamine intolerance) and hypothyroidism. But there are a plethora of other doctors who are fully aware of it.

    mindbodygreen.com/0-11175/e...

    My knowledge about the havoc caused by overfilled histamine levels began as I got very ill due to what I discovered was a casein intolerance. Casein is a protein found in milk. Researching about it brought me to a new appreciation for how the body can balk and protest with symptoms when it doesn't get what it needs for good health. It didn't take me long to figure out how to quell those symptoms and then to take on the plethora of others by getting my thyroid hormone levels up enough so that plenty of T3 was in my cells. As that was being done, it was evident my histamine levels were receding. Amazing how I then could eat anything I chose. Even milk with casein protein in it! No reactions whatsoever and without any DAO enzyme replacement.

    Currently, by choice, I don't eat dairy products. However, that fact has nothing to do with the milk protein (casein) in contains. Just a preference, at least for now.

    philmaffetone.com/casein/

    Just so you can feel good about what is in Thyroid-S; dietary aluminum is in almost everything. If you eat, drink, and breathe (which we all do) then you're constantly ingesting dietary aluminum. Such low levels of aluminum (dietary aluminum) are completely harmless. Just like the aluminum in Thyroid-S: harmless.

    "...it should be noted that aluminum is a very abundant and widely distributed element and will be found in most rocks, soils, waters, air, and foods. You will always have some exposure to low levels of aluminum from eating food, drinking water, and breathing air."

    atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?i...

    thyroid-s.com/does-thyroid-...

    Hugs!

  • Hi :-)

    thank you for your very informative post.

  • Worth doing some research about the products you have recommended.

  • Glad to be of help to you, sue_b. Let me know if you have any questions about either product.

    Hugs!

  • I'm in Thyroid S but found it difficult at the start, we know I thought I was doing alright but e NDT didn't but he was right!

    I'd started my thyroid journey many years ago on prescription and was on for a few years but then without 3 months because of a strike so I elected to try Levo which wasn't too bad. To cut a long story short I've just started my third year on Thyroid S. Previously on 125/100 Levo. I am a. Autious person and increased very slowly and got up to 3 grains but wasn't quite as good as I'd hoped. Then enodo did bloods and droppedcme down to 1.75 which shocked me! But he was right! Stayed at that dose till fairly recently and things went off a little but I've to take some different medication and found that it keaaonsxa sorption of thyroid meds and so now I am on 2 grains. I would hold the level you have dropped to a little longer and see if things settle down.

    You haven't been on it very long so always best to drop back and then just increase by a quarter on one day in three to start off with if you then think it's too low and see how that goes.

    I don't think it's not the brand for you though at the moment. Before I made the change I read lots of posts and noticed that people that did t do well with Thyroid S were fine with Thiroyd and the reverse was also true. I wondered about the fillers so getting near to the end of my supply I tried the alternative and after only two days I switched back as horrible head aches!

    You could try taking an antehistamine an hour before your dose and if that feels better then something in the fillers is upsetting you and you will need to look at some else to take.

    But see if things settle down first at a lower dose and may be get some bloods done and post them but a lot of it is how you feel but you are low in experience at the moment.

    I would also try taking your basal temperature i.e. When you wake up and before you get out of bed. It should be 36.9 and if you take again about 3 it should have increased to 37 or 37.1. Over a few days you should start to see whether you are taking too much or too little as a rouge guide.

    Do you split your dose? I did but tended to keep forgetting the second dose but once my body was used to the T3 I take it in one dose in the morning. I did try taking it on an evening as that mimics the time, or is nearer to the time that T3 is naturally higher in the body and that worked well thyroidwise but didn't fit in with my eating!

    Hope you soon get it sorted

  • Thank you all for your speedy replies. I have built up the dosage slowly and reached 2 grains about a week ago, until then I have felt really well, so I think I have just taken too much. It was lovely not to feel freezing cold all the time, but now I am boiling hot and have awful headaches behind the eyes. I will leave off the dosage for the next couple of days and then start over again at 1 grain. Thanks again everyone.

  • If you started at the end of April and have now reached 2 grains you may have increased a bit fast. I am a bit overcautious and spent about double that time.

    But if you were fairly stable in 100mcg of Levo, the expectation is that you'll need a similar sized dose of NDT. Some say 1grain is equivalent of 100mcg, I think it's closer to 75mcg. But there's no such thing as a true equivalency because it depends how good your body is at using them. If NDT suits you and your body makes good use of it you may need a smaller dose.

    I think I would pull back to about 1 grain (or a dose you were confident wasn't over) and stay on it for a few weeks. Maybe even 6 weeks and get the blood test if you feel good on it. Then do very slow increases and hold for several weeks each time. It's easy to over shoot your ideal dose, especially if its likely to be quite a low one.

  • Sounds like you went up one increase too much & have now gone past your sweet spot. This is inevitable to be honest & is the reason why the dose is increased slowly -6-8 weeks imbetween each dose increase. Sounds like you've been doing this? If so I would not take any for a day or two then start back on the lower dose you were on before the latest increase -the one you felt well on. Am not a medic of course but thats the protocol I find works.....

  • Try one grain for a while and see how you go. if you start feeling hypo then adjust as appropriate. Some days I take 2 grains sometimes 3. I think you have to fine tune a little more on NDT.

    I'd probably not take tomorrow so you know you'll be fine for your interview.

  • Yes, I will leave it for a couple of days then start again, hopefully will get through tomorrow ok. I am hoping that I have just over medicated as I have felt really well until recently. Thanks for your advice.

  • Exercise is supposed to use up thyroid hormones - how about going swimming for an hour or two? It should keep you cool too!

    Good Luck

  • Hi, I might just try that, thanks

  • let us know if it works for you - it might help another member one day!

  • Hi

    The Med doses mentioned by anna69 are correct. You were on 100 mcg of thyroxine but one grain is 75( not 100) so you ended up with 1.5 x what you were taking and adding t3 takes time as you were not on it already. I'd go back to one grain after a couple of days and build it up again to say 1.25. As silverfox quite rightly said as time goes by your body will get used to it and may need more.

    Definitely worth doing a private test thro blue horizon to ensure all thyroid tests and vitamins are looked at. - very few people have good vitamin levels to start with.

    Good luck and next time post your results so we can all be more specific.

  • Hi Siddoo - Agree exercise burns up thyroid, and swimming is right up there because you also loose heat to the water. But backing up for a minute. You need to find the reason you have hit the wall. You cant convert thyroid if you are short on b12, iron, testosterone and a few others. It will just pool in your tissues until it gives you a head ache and makes you feel crap. Get a Vit B, Iron's , Testosterone, Estrogen blood test. You need to get B12 up between 700-900. Now back to NDT. Get your self on approx 2 grains per day (1 @ night and 1 in Morning) , you're now preventing organ damage. Next start monitoring your temps 2-3 times per day and how you feel, hot, cold feet, hands, crawly skin, energy levels, feeling shaky, feeling anxious, write it in a diary. After a few weeks add 1/2 grain, again keep track of everything. Wait 3-4 weeks and again increase 1/2 grain. At some point you will find a comfortable level. This is your daily base dosage. Now if you are going skiing or jogging in the rain you going to need another 1/2 grain that day, it you're sitting on you arse and watching DVD's you may have to drop 1/2 grain. If you take and extra 1/2 grain two days running you may go hyper, just be aware of how you going. As the years go by you may need to slowly increase, but maybe not, I've been on 3 to 3 1/2 for a long time now.

    J

  • I also take Thyroid-S on 2 grains. My last dose was 2 grains and half, and I switched to 2 grains because I was sweating, anxiety, shaking hands etc. However, after downgrading to 2 grains I still feel the same symptoms and I talked to myself that it couldn't be possible since I was clearly taking a lower dose. Surprisingly, I found out the thyroid-s last in your body for more than 2-3 weeks. I felt tempted to reduce the dosage again but I decided to wait those 6 weeks to leave the dosage to adjust, and it worked. Now after 1 month I am stable again. So I think you shouldn't judge too early until you give thyroid-s time enough to adjust in your body.

    Hope it helps.

  • I hope job interview went well. If you need to attend any others call up the national careers advice they will ring you back and even do mock interviews which are really helpful for the nerves and being prepared for questions and answering naturally. They are really good. Hopefully you have bagged the job.

  • I am on 75mcg T4 and 10mcg T3. Taking 15mcg T3 puts we well over top of the FT3 range. That is one of the reasons I don't use NDT: the T3:T4 ratio of 1:4 is not right for me, I need a larger proportion of T4.

  • Just to add we have had a heatwave so though Ive been stable on the same dose of ndt for years I need quarter to half a grain less when its very hot. That wont have helped!

    The other thing to be aware is that you may well react differently to ndt in comparison to levothyroxine and get better uptake so may need to adjust around the equivalent dose to levothyroxine. It is not an exact science and each person responds in slightly different ways. Bear in mind that levothyroxone only has T4 where as a ndt has all the thyroid hormones so you may well respond differently.

    Ive also found a bit of tweaking many be needed when switching ndt brands and feel it must be simething to do with the different types of fillers different manufacturers use. Suspect that is why people favour different brands of ndt. So it also about finding the brand that suits yiu the best..

    Glad to hear you are feeling better....

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