This is not directly thyroid-related but I hope it's OK to post this question here anyway, hoping that someone will know more about this:
I have been asking myself a lot of questions lately about estrogen deficiency vs dominance. The symptoms seems confusingly similar in many cases....five years ago, in late 2011, I was put on Estrogel and natural progesterone (Utrogestan, 200 mg) by my Hertoghe doctor. The cream should be applied daily day 5-25 of cycle, the pills should to be taken day 15-25 at bedtime. At the time, I was 42 and still had regular periods, no symptoms of peri-menopause. I still have regular periods.
I was told I needed to take both E and P because I suffered from adrenal fatigue (for which I was prescribed Medrol which I subsequently managed to wean off).
I recently stumbled upon an article based on a book Dr. Lee who lists the following symptoms as indicative of estrogen dominance (rather than deficiency):
I have been experiencing all those symptoms in the past three or four months, and never connected them to hormone therapy, but rather to work-related stress, etc.
Now, for the first time ever, I am beginning to seriously wonder if it's possible that a doctor trained by Dr. T Hertoghe, the hormone doctor par excellence in Europe according to many, could mistake estrogen dominance for estrogen deficiency...?!
If I interpret Dr. Lee's theories correctly, supplementing estrogen (even if it's bioidentical Estrogel) when estrogen dominant will only make matters worse...
The other day, I wanted to buy a hair removal device, but could not find one to be used on the face...do all women approaching menopause experience an increase in facial hair, or could there be a connection to estrogen dominance, as suggested by Dr. Lee...?
A few thoughts and this is based on presuming your thyroid hormones are optimal for you:
1. Are the rest of your nutrients optimal for you? By that I mean I've found that if my ferritin level is below 60 I have problems with periods.
2. Does any other first and/or second degree female relations have the menstruation problems you do? The problem with women's issues is that they have been poor researched due to the massive variation. So if you have a mother, sister, grandmother, aunt, cousin etc and can draw the topic of conversation around to menstruation you can find out what is normal for them, when they reached the menopause and how it was for them before and after it. You will need to work out their lifestyles but generally your relations are a good guide to whether the problems you have are genetic.
Increase in facial hair is often too much testosterone or DHEA acting in an androgenic way. What do your sex hormone bloods show? I take more than 50 times as much progesterone as oestrogen - all the time (but that's because my endo comes from the other school of thought and doesn't try to emulate a cycle). But I'm post menopause. I think PCOS is associated with an increase in facial hair and with hypo
Continued low levels of thyroid hormone can mess up other hormone levels as all hormones are dependant on one another.
Although I had addressed all nutrient deficiencies, gut issues and has good levels of thyroid hormones, I didn't feel properly well until medicated bio-identical HRT (both O & P) last year.
It is not only our levels of sex hormones that is important but how our body uses and excretes the unwanted. The only way to ascertain this is through comprehensive testing that is not available on the National Health.
I used the DUTCH test which is thought to be an improvement on saliva, blood serum or 24 hour urine collections. This test also measures free cortisol to investigate the metabolites of oestrogen, androgen, progesterone and cortisol giving a full picture of what is happening.
People with hypothyroidism often have the genetic defect (MTHFR) related to methylation. This can effect how we use oestrogen and convert it into its various forms.
I want to thank all of you for your very helpful comments and suggestions!
I have had problems getting my ferritin levels up, even on prescription iron. I recently added beef liver extract which is said to be rich in iron and also vitamin A as my vit A levels were also borderline low.
My last labs (from early August 2016) showed ferritin levels of 84 ng/mL; I am not sure how good that is given that ref ranges are 10-205, so I assume there is room for improvement...if anyone can recommend a really good iron supplement, I'd appreciate it.
This is what my hormone levels looked like on day 21 of cycle, at age 47 (ref ranges for luteal phase in brackets):
FSH 5.0 UI/L (1.4-5.5)
LH 5.4 UI/L (0.6-14)
Estradiol 101 pg/mL (21-312)
progesterone 4.3 ng/mL (1.2-15.9)
total testosterone 0.34 ng/mL (0.10-0.70)
At the time, I was using Estrogel (two pumps daily), Utrogestan 200 mg day 15-25 of cycle, and 25 mg of DHEA.
Interestingly enough, my DHEA levels were above range (372 ug/dL; ref 56-283). I never noticed at the time...my doctor told me to continue to take 25 mg daily as I had so far. However, when I recently run out of DHEA, I decided not to reorder as I don't feel it does much for me...but it's strange that my doctor would tell me to continue taking it with levels out of range, isn't it...?
Anyway, my doctor told me to continue to take the same hormones as before, and not to make any changes re dosage. All prescriptions were renewed. Based on the lab results above, was that a good decision...?
She also prescribes Medrol for adrenal fatigue, but I recently decided to wean off it as I did not feel comfortable taking Medrol year after year, even if I was "only" taking 4 mg daily. Maybe I exaggerate the risks of taking synthetic cortisone, and really should go back on it...since then, I have been taking capsules containing 5 mg of hydrocortisone along with vitamins, as it's obvious to me I need something for adrenal support. I believe multi dosing to be hassle compared to Medrol which can be taken once daily, but I feel good on it. But maybe HC is no better than Medrol...anyway, the Hertoghe doctors seem to consider adrenal fatigue a condition requiring life-long treatment, and not just a temporary condition meaning you can wean off adrenal support eventually. I have been in touch with other patients seeing various Hertoghe doctors, and they all say the same thing: once on HC or Medrol, they remain on it, and no doctor has even suggested they try to wean off it.
I know that my grandmother (who died a few years ago) had very heavy periods all her life. All her five(!) sisters had thyroid problem; two of them ended up hypothyroid after having goiters, the others were diagnosed with Hashimoto's. My mother remains convinced my grandmother had thyroid problems as well, as she had many symptoms indicative of that condition, but doctors insisted her TSH was normal...my mother recently paid a private lab for testing since her GP refused to test her thyroid, and asked me to have a look at the results. To my surprise, her levels looked completely normal, because my mother (who just turned 73) has been putting on a lot of weight in recent years and seem unable to lose it...that, combined with other symptoms such as increased fatigue and a tendency to retain fluid, made her suspect that she might be hypothyroid as well, given our family history and my diagnosis. But both her FTs were good and her TSH below 2...
I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's in late 2000 and started seeing this Hertoghe doctor five years ago, after more than ten years on thyroxine without much success...I have improved in the past five years, no doubt about that, but it would be a mistake not to take advantage of all the experience and expertise in this forum...
I have been taking gentle iron supplements which seem to work and don't cause my tummy too many problems (I have Ibs-c). You must however take iron with vit c and on an empty stomach (so 1 hr before food, 2hrs after). The vit c is to help with absorption and to counteract the constipation you can get from iron tablets.
I initially took 4 gentle iron tablets a day split into two doses. One dose on waking with 500mg of vit c, and the second dose mid afternoon. It took quite a few months to start to feel better and for my ferritin levels to start to come up. I then reduced the dose (after testing that said my ferritin was at 40ish) to 2 tablets once a day with 1000 mg of vit c.
If you are getting facial hair enough that you are looking for a machine to remove it something is definitely not right. First thing I would do is stop the DHEA supplements and see what happens. Perhaps get retested to see what is going on as an imbalance in one hormone. Am put all the others out. Be careful tinkering about with hormones and make sure you are keeping an eye on the impact of your tinkering. Personally it doesn't sound like you have been getting the right advice if they want you to be taking something that a test has shown you have too much of. That would ring warning bells with me.
Hope you manage to work it all out and resolve your issues. I have pcos and know how annoying and distressing unwanted hair can be 💐
Thank you very much for your advice and input, much appreciated!
I just received this link to an article by Dr. Lee (an expert on adrenal fatigue); he writes that when taking estrogen (which I do), you should avoid taking pregnenolone...however, my doctor put me on 50 mg of pregnenolone daily, along with DHEA and estrogen (plus several other hormones)...
It's not always enough to see a so called Top Doctor...you have to be prepared to question them, too, and not just take all the hormones they prescribe...I will go off both pregnenolone and DHEA asap, and see if there is some symptom relief (according to the article linked to, an increase in facial hair could be caused by hormonal imbalance due to taking both estrogen and pregnenolone...).
• in reply to
Hi Hidden , As hormones are a subject now on my radar, I read through the link you posted for Dr Lam and there are a couple of glaring points, which you'll most likely have noted yourself. One, is the suggestion that taking pregnenolone and either oestrogen or progesterone is not advised - questionable as to why you Doctor suggested you take PregN and E. But also when stopping pregnenolone supplementation to do this * gradually *. Having gone cold turkey myself when I stopped my low dose synthetic HRT, I just wanted to alert you to his comment about withdrawal symptoms. From what you say you've been on pregN for a few years.
Best wishes 😊
• in reply to
Yes, you're right, and I did not see what he said about withdrawal symptoms at first...as I was so impressed with the statement that you should not combine pregN with either E or P...and I take both E and P and have for the past five years.
Thank you for pointing that out; it goes without saying, really, that you should not stop taking anything cold turkey...!
This also reminds me that no doctor is too good to be questioned...the fact is that my doctor also told me to continue to take DHEA although my DHEA levels were out of range...not sure it's a good idea to take it in that case.
Although Dr Hertoghe himself is mainly known as a anti-age doctor, i did not decide to see one of his "disciples" because I was afraid of getting older, but because I knew they prescribe NDT, as I was not doing great on thyroxine only and, on top of that, I suspected I had adrenal fatigue which most doctors are clueless about...also later confirmed.
I am not sure if pregN and DHEA are anti-aging hormones more than anything...
On a more general note, I have begun to question more and more of the things this doctor told me. For instance that, since I had a tendency to retain fluid, HC would only make that problem worse, so I'd have to use Medrol...but is it not likely that the tendency to retain fluid was caused by hypothyroidism which in turn was caused by the fact that thyroxine alone was not enough for me as I don't seem to convert T4 to T3...? I have tried to find, but been unable to, any reliable source stating that Medrol should be your firsthand choice in these kinds of situations. Some switch to it from HC if they either metabolise HC too quickly or temporarily if they get a bad cold or a flu, but few doctors seem to put patients with adrenal fatigue on Medrol before giving HC a chance...not even Dr. H himself advocates that in his books.
Anna
• in reply to
I don't have any knowledge of Adrenal treatment, so can't comment on that. Other than regarding the fluid retention which as you say may be caused by thyroid deficiencies but also that's an oestrogen dominance symptom.
The more I read and unravel, the more there is to find out!
You are absolutely right about questioning what 'experts' advise. My GP didn't test my E & P levels when I first went on HRT! I find that to be crazy now.
• in reply to
I am actually thinking about skipping E my next cycle, and only taking P from day 15-25, to see whether that makes a difference...the worst thing that could happen would be to find out I was E deficient rather than dominant, but that is not going to kill me...all I have to do then is to go back on E.
The reason often invoked why the Hertoghe doctors charge so much compared to other doctors is that they are experts...true, they prescribe drugs that most other doctors won't, such as NDT and also HC/Medrol for adrenal fatigue as well as human growth hormone, but I have learned to question their judgment as well...after all, I am the only one who knows what works for me and what doesn't.
• in reply to
Do come back and tell us how you get on, since it'll be helpful for many.
I have delayed using my P cream. I ordered an interim P/E/FSH blood test for day 20 which I am awaiting the results of. Wanted to get a budget friendly idea of where I was at now being 5/6 weeks off synthetic HRT. Did the test and posted it. Only my period then came that eve! So who knows how that will show up on the Results! I'm hoping it's not a complete waste 😣.
• in reply to
I will. I hope you learn something from the test so that it turns out not to be a complete waste of money...!
I was put on contraceptive pills when I was 19 because my doctor said that I have too much estrogen and that's why I had terribly painful and long periods, lots of bleeding as well. I've been on them for decades now and I don't know is it possible to even test estrogen while on the pill? I should have done some tests when few years ago I stopped taking them for 15 months, but I really haven't noticed any difference in how I felt or in anything really.
I'm in a similar situation to you re knowing if est def or dominant. I too was taking bio progesterone but also prescribed bio estrogen too which i didnt take. I was taking the progesterone for a couple of months which seemed to help my mood but i was still irritable and agitated with general PMS symptoms which didnt make me a very nice person to be around. The gynocologist i saw told me i needed to take estrogen as well as the progesterone as she said my estrogen would be low too so not necessarily estrogen dominant but more dominant than the very low progesterone...so i tried the estrogen too and i think it made me feel worse...a lot more exaggerated over reaction to people. I have now stopped taking all of the bio stuff but have recently had another thyroid blood test (i have hashis) which showed my TSH at nearly 2, FT4 mid range and FT3 scraping very near the bottom. Since increasing the levo from 200mcg to 225mcg i have been feeling a bit better. I too suffer from low ferritin and have low morning cortisol but being in the UK low cortisol is not recognised unless you have addisons disease. I am waiting for further blood test results for estrodiol and FSH and LH but i know i'm not in menopause so not really sure how helpful this will be in the meanwhile i am waiting to go back and see the gyno. I did have ovarian cysts which have recently (thank goodness) resolved, apparently this is quite common with low thyroid and low progesterone i have read.
Thank you for this very interesting and informative post!
Adrenal fatigue is not a recognised diagnosis in Belgium either (only Addison's disease is), so only the so called Hertoghe doctors will treat it. That is one of the reasons I went to see a Hertoghe doctor, the other being that I wanted to try NDT instead of thyroxine.
I find the information on estrogen supplementation confusing, as some doctors claim you should only use it during peri-menopause, and only if you have particular symptoms. When I was put on E and P, I was only 42, and still having regular periods. I still am, BTW. My hormone doctor told me last summer that I can expect to have periods for another 3-4 years, based on my FH and LH readings.
I realise my E and P levels most likely looked different five years ago because of my low adrenal output, which could possibly justify being put on both...however, I have been reading a lot about estrogen dominance since, and it seems it can really mess you up. Most doctors seem clueless about this condition, and that includes the Hertoghe doctors who are said to be hormone specialists...this is why I have been doing some research on my own, to try to find out if my current treatment plan is optimal for me, or if going off E would be a good choice.
I have managed to wean myself off Medrol. It took quite some time, and it had to be decreased gradually, but now that I am finally off it (I have not taken any since last November), I sincerely hope I never have to go back on it. It just does not feel right to take a drug like that year after year...
I think i read somewhere about estrogen playing havoc with the thyroid too, might have it wrong but i think i read something about receptors being blocked or something like that...sounds painful! lol!!
I wouldn't be at all surprised as estrogen seems to have some pretty nasty side effects if not balanced by enough progesterone...
• in reply to
Hi Anna, thought this might be of interest .....
Got the results of my Medichecks HRT blood test back and despite my earlier concerns over it being a waste of time, as my period came on day 20, the results are still interesting.
For the phase of my cycle I should be in on day 20 (luteal but bear in mind I'm peri-meno) my FSH is high, E normal and P low. I'm interpreting this as my body is possible anovulatory for this cycle (i.e FSH is trying to get things going but to no avail), and as P is low it's not made a jot of difference!
My symptoms - breast tenderness, water retention just before period, and heavy periods, (probably others too) together with my Oestradiol level in the test being normal, very much suggests a tendency to being .......... Estrogen dominant!
I suspect I'm getting ever closer to meno (now 52) and so good that I've got the Bio P cream waiting. Advice on the forum seems to be go low level and slow - in case E receptors suddenly jump into action. Although I will actually wait it out a bit longer until my thyroid meds are at a good level as I too read in Dr Lee's book about the link of thyroid with E.
I don't know if this is helpful or not to you, but certainly adds to the evidence that I don't appear to need to add any more E
May still do the DUTCH test in the future, but as the Medichecks test is good VFM I can repeat every couple of months whilst I'm adjusting to changes.
• in reply to
Thank you very much for this report, very interesting indeed!
I have not skipped any periods yet; I just turned 48, and LH and FSH are still in range (not menopausal according to lab's reference ranges). But I guess I have to be peri-menopausal at 48...especially since I had my first period pretty early (two months before my 12th birthday).
I would be easy to say that since I have been diagnosed with adrenal fatigue, both E and P levels must be low, along with cortisol and DHEA levels, just to mention a few.
But...I have since read that the body is able to make estrogen out of almost anything...for instance fats, and maybe even cortisol (not sure if I dreamt that or actually read it somewhere as I have been doing a lot of research lately on HRT and estrogen dominance...). That would explain why it's easy to end up estrogen dominant as the body is able to make its own estrogen, but not progesterone...
• in reply to
After re-reading your excellent posts, and now knowing your exact age, this is the question I am asking myself: a woman is said to stop producing progesterone once menopausal. However, it seems the Hertoghe doctors continue to prescribe both estrogen and progesterone to women well into their 60s (I don't know this from personal experience, as I am "only" 48 and still having regular periods, but I have learned this from other forums). The question I ask myself is: even if you are hypothyroid and suffering from adrenal fatigue as a result, is there any point in continuing to supply progesterone once you're menopausal, even though a healthy woman seems to stop producing P at that time...? This question is not intended for you only, just a question I wanted to ask after reading your reply...
To be quite honest, I have been having some serious doubts recently about the so called Hertoghe doctors. I realise not many members of this forum have been to see one, as they are mainly working in Belgium and neighbouring countries, but I have to say it makes me wonder when Dr. Lee (no idea how trustworthy HE is, though...I tend to think US doctors are always better than European ones) that no woman taking estrogen should be on pregnenolone...my doctor prescribed 50-100 mg of pregN daily, along with 25 mg of DHEA...I am not saying Dr. Lee is right and my doctor wrong, for the simple reason that I don't know that to be the case for sure, but I find it strange that so called "top doctors" can give such conflicting advice...
Also, I feel more and more strongly that if I am going to pay ten times more than I pay to see a GP, only because the doctor in question prescribes certain drugs and hormones usually not prescribed by conventional doctors, and was also trained by the hormone specialist par excellence in mainland Europe, I need to feel it's money worth spent...meaning that I cannot regularly question that doctor's opinion or advice. Hope this makes sense,
Anna
• in reply to
I don't know if you can access BBC iplayer? If you can Kirsty Wark has done an interesting programme on BBC4 about the menopause.
I have just started Dr Lees chapter on Estrogen and Osteoporosis.. very timely. Thre's quite a bit to this and I'll summarise as I understand his thinking. Estrogen seems to suppress bone loss, but it's a kind of delaying strategy. i.e take it for 5 years around the time of meno, but the bone mineral density once you get to about 75 remains on a par with someone not taking E. However, Progesterone helps new bone to grow, and he suggests that when treated with P therapy a patient's bone mineral density actually improves - even at age 75.
Seems to be another tick of the pro P box.
Going back to the BBC programme also, one of the biggest interventions you can make to reduce risk of osteoporosis is lifestyle change - reduce alcohol, stop smoking, increase exercise, take vit D (plus K2 :)).
The other benefit of taking P is of course that E continues to line the womb (the anovulatory situation), and therefore not taking P means that there is nothing to prompt a periodic shedding.
• in reply to
Thank you for that! I will see if I can access BBC iPlayer...that programme sounds really interesting!
Yes, progesterone does seem to have some amazing qualities, doesn't it?!
Attention: long post!
Another thing I just stumbled upon: a few years back, I ordered a book called "Female brain gone insane" by a Nurse Practitioner (NP) in the US who has been specialising in HRT for the past 25 or so years. I liked the book a lot and think this person makes a lot of sense. I reread a few chapters in it today, and also visited her website. To summarise what she says:
Before you are menopausal (have not had any period for at least consecutive 12 months), you are peri-menopausal which equals estrogen dominant. Peri-menopausal women should not be prescribed estrogen, only bio-identical progesterone, to be used from day 16-28 of cycle if still having more or less regular periods (Hertoghe doctors recommend day 15-25, but OK..).
According to this NP, you should go to the lab to have your estrogen levels and other hormones measured on day 3-5 of period , whereas the Hertoghe doctors tell you to go to the lab on day 21, so during the luteal phase. This is where things are starting to get more confusing as to who is actually correct...but my OB-Gyn also told me to go to the lab on day 3.
This NP says that, if your FSH is above 22, and your estradiol levels are below 150 pmol/L, you are definitely menopausal and need both estrogen and progesterone. Then, she goes on to say: "If your FSH is between 10 and 22, you are peri-menopausal and only need bio-identical progesterone from day 16-28 of cycle".
In late July 2016, before seeing my hormone doctor, I had labs on day 21 of cycle:
FSH 5.4 UI/L
estradiol 101 pg/mL
In mid-December, so almost exactly two months ago, I had labs on day 3 of period (this was one week before my 48th birthday), requested by my OB-Gyn:
FSH 7.9 UI/L
estradiol 17 pg/mL
Ref ranges for FSH (sorry, I just translated them literally, I hope this is how you say it in English):
follicular phase 3.0-8.1
ovalutory peak 2.6-16.7
luteal phase 1.4-5.5
menopause 27-122
Ref ranges for estradiol:
follicular phase 21-251
ovalutory peak 38-649
luteal phase 21-312
menopause <28
My OB-Gyn did not test progesterone, but P levels last summer came back at 4.3 ng/mL on day 21 of cycle (ref luteal phase 1.2-15.9).
So, from what the NP says, even though my estradiol levels were menopausal on day 3 of period two months ago, I am still peri-menopausal "only" because my FSH levels are not above 22...?
These latest labs were ordered by my OB-Gyn who simply declared them "normal for anyone my age". Of course, on day 3 of period, I am not taking any hormones; I have been using Estrogel from day 5-25 and Utrogestan from day 5-25 of cycle for the past five years.
I find this rather confusing, also because the symptoms of estrogen dominance and deficiency can be confusingly similar...but, if the NP is correct, I have been on estrogen for the past five years although I was peri-menopausal at best (and I am still not menopausal) and, according to her, estrogen should be used by menopausal women only.
I don't know if, at my age (48), there would be any idea going off the Estrogel and continuing to take progesterone only...? Today, my period started, almost a week early; it's day 23 of cycle, and I was scheduled to take E and P until Friday...I have always had regular periods, so this came as a complete surprise...but I understand this is often how it starts. However, this could go on for another four or five years, possibly longer, before my periods stop altogether. So...would it be a good idea to go off estrogen until then, and at least see how I feel on progesterone only...?
Does it sound like I am idolising this NP...? Possibly. But she is supposedly very good; so good that people travel all the way from Sweden to the US to consult with her...
• in reply to
Just a quick reply as have read but not fully digested. Will have another read through a bit later re your question on E.
I must admit I Googled 'best day to check E & P at meno' but struggled to find much other than luteal phase. I think because the P is made once ovulation occurs. Hence if no egg (anovulatory) then P is extra low. That is what I believe is part of the erratic nature of being peri as well as E spiking and cycle being shorter/longer gaps.
• in reply to
Thanks so much for this, I really appreciate all your help and input on all this...!
• in reply to
Bear in mind that I have no training in this and am just going by what I have learnt through observing my own changes and reading........... but looking at you levels above ( day 3 mid Dec) I can see why your practitioner might suggest you need E - i.e your level was 17 and the range starts at 21. BUT from what I know of my own experience and what I have read, E is erratic during peri. Such that it can spike and fall -could it be that on this 1 occasion you were in a low E phase (regardless of 'normal' level for phase of cycle)?
One of the things I asked my GP back in Sept when I'd had a period for nearly 2 weeks (was sent for a uterine scan and all okay), was 'when you are on HRT (would apply to Bio or Synth) how do you know at what point you become meno, since the HRT is masking what is going on by the E adding to the creation of a lining, and then P ensuring you get a bleed?' Her response was you don't! The only way to know is to come off HRT.
Brief digression - My focus on this was because when I first posted my blood results 2 people had commented on the sex hormones side of things. Until that point I had no idea of the relationship between them and thyroid! I had already considered coming off HRT back in Sept/Oct so the recent decision was easy given that it was the synthetic type of HRT. I think I might have been better to reduce gradually, and when during a phone appt with GP to discuss thyroid prescription, my GP quickly checked what dose I was on - she said okay, you're on low dose, so should be okay. It was only afterwards that I understood why the gradual reduction is the way to go. Heyho!.
Personally, at this point with how I feel I don't think I would now pay for a private apt to look at my sex hormones - the caveat being that might change if I needed a prescription for something which I could only get through them. I think now I have a better idea of my body and how I feel to be able to adjust and move forward on my own - continuously reading as I go. I think the key is to listen to your body. I can also get blood tests to see what's going on -certainly more than my GP did!
I can now see that back in Sept, my own E level had dropped but wasn't low, I was adding synth E, so creating not only a thicker lining but adding E possibly when my natural cycle was out of synch with the synthetic HRT, my own P was low, the P in my HRT was low also. All adding to the 'chaos' of peri. I had been on HRT about 20 months and actually still had an odd cycle - prior to HRT it had become about 24 days, with a couple of missed periods, but mostly very heavy/painful. And during this time I was unaware of the impact that my brewing hypo was adding. Of course since Jan this year ALOT has changed - thyroid, diet, supplements, stopping HRT.
So back to your question re day 21 or day 3 - I'm not sure because of the erratic nature of the peri cycle? Your own cycle is becoming erratic - i.e 21 days, which in itself confirms what your already believe - you are peri. Starting periods at an early age adds to that thinking - I think mine started close to 15 I was a late one!
I too have read that E isn't generally needed until AFTER meno.
You have the addition of PregN to factor into all of this as well.
PS. I just stumbled upon this article which I find interesting:
It's kind of scary (for lack of a better word) that you pay a fortune so see a so called hormone specialist (who charges that much only because s/he is a hormone specialist who can prescribe drugs no mainstream doctor will), and you may end up taking a hormone that you are already producing in abundance, causing excessive levels of said hormone and all the subsequent side effects...I am not saying that is what happened to me, as I am not sure yet, but it does seem you should not take estrogen replacement therapy lightly...
• in reply to
Going to read this one now
All adds to the 'understanding' or is that 'confusion'!
• in reply to
I think I can tick every one of those symptoms, though not all at once. Started with insomnia and alcohol intolerance - around the age of 45. I only realised just recently that the breast lumps I found 4 years ago and had checked out, were in fact fibrocystic - it won't have helped being on the pill since age 17 to around 42 either!
Yes it is 'scary' to realise all that you now know may be the case. She does back up the thinking of Dr Lee - good to get a current view backing up oldschool. I find this information very empowering ..... thanks for sharing the link
• in reply to
You're most welcome...and thank you so much for your detailed reply above! Very informative as well!
I have decided not to go back on E in five days, but to try P only from day 15-25 of this cycle (which is what I'm used to, even if this US NP recommends P from day 16-28...but it cannot make that much of a difference, can it...?) If I feel no difference one way or the other, I might just as well stay off E from now on...if I feel worse, I will then know that I need E. But, since I have been on E without interruption since age 42, I think it could be interesting to see how I react without it...it does seem (judging by the article by Dr. Northrup) that the body can make E out of almost anything, but needs P to be supplemented once you are peri-menopausal...yes, indeed, a lot of food for thought, isn't it...?!
I have also decided to try DIM which is said to promote healthy E metabolism. In a month from now, I should have a pretty clear idea (at least I hope) what I need and don't need...
• in reply to
How annoying, just lost a response I started....
Yes, you can at least restart the E if you find you need it. I'm also finding it intriguing to know how I'll be without anything, and also how getting thyroid meds increased will impact. Hopefully GP will listen to me rather than just numbers but plan on getting private TSH/FT4/FT3 bloods so I can challenge any 'you'd be over medicated' excuses.
I suspect that when I start the P, it'll be a little earlier in cycle as they are so short!
Come back and update as you go - I'm following this thread.
• in reply to
Will do
• in reply to
PS. Here is a link to the website of the Nurse Practitioner I was referring to earlier:
Thanks for posting this - it'll be useful for many that read this thread.
For me it is another confirmation of what I believe is the case - E dom! I feel like a beached whale prior to period, but I'm holding off with P cream so that I can get thyroid more in balance first.
• in reply to
I'm glad if it can be of help to others I know that feeling before period...
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
estrogen and progesterone
