Testosterone

Hello You Guys,

My brother has a really low testosterone level and it is 87 and it's supposed to be between 250 and 827. Any suggestions on how he can get this up? Also if we can try to do it the natural way as insurance does not pay for these expensive creams. Plus my brother is on Fentanyl 50 milligram patches.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

32 Replies

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  • If he were to work out at the gym every day lifting weights and doing cardio he could increase his testosterone naturally.

  • Maryh1,

    Being on Fentanyl patches might suggest issues which preclude pumping iron every day. Some of the side effects of Fentanyl might reduce capacity to pump iron.

    I don't know any more than you, but maybe it is not a sensible option for debber's brother?

  • Your right Hellvela. I just Googled Fentanyl patches and found that this medication lowers testosterone. This person would not be capable of strenuous exercise. Sorry if I lead anyone asstray. I do know that daily workouts increase testosterone levels in healthy males.

  • Is he on statins? How's his cholesterol? If that's low, it might account for his low testosterone. How are his other hormones? TSH and cortisol, for example. If one is off, the others usually are, too. Might be a good idea to have a complete hormone panel, if he hasn't already.

    I think members might need a little more information before being able to help.

  • totally agree with grey here..

  • Thank you, Grey. They didn't do the whole panel on him that's what's so frustrating about doctors. I don't get it. He goes to an endocrinologist soon and he's going to ask that for blood on his thyroid. That's what I thought, too, as it's a balance. I will keep you guys posted on what he finds out. He asked me if the natural testosterone works and I told him I didn't know as it's really expensive and lots of insurances will not cover it. But will prescribe a lot of psyche meds cover up underlying issues.

    I will keep you guys posted on what he finds out. Thank you you guys!!!! Debbs

  • this is a great site androids.org.uk/

  • Hi sorry to hear your brother has been ill.

    Yes Greygoose is correct. You need to find out the reason for the low hormone levels as only 2% of people have it from using the patches alone. Low levels of vit D and zinc can also cause low levels of testosterone. Also diet can help significantly- no refined sugar. Organic veg and plenty of healthy fats can increase levels.(coconut oil, avocados raw nuts and olives etc.)

    Also high cortisol levels can affect testosterone levels- if your brother has been in considerable pain for sometime it can have a knock on effect on the adrenal gland.

    I know that there are trials of sawpalmetto that are looking at raising testosterone but I personally would check other potential issues first.

    Best wishes.

  • good info howard.......good to know....mine is low too.....didnt know about zinc

  • Thank you Howard39. I will be sure to let him know. He has been in pain. He had an accident at work and injured his back and he has not been the same since.

    I would love to Skype you. How do you want to do that? Do you Skype?

  • Hi just been through this with my endo, all I did was lean on the loss of labido and the fact I am losing muscle mass,( I work in construction so I need the muscle) and he was happy for me to have a gel that you rub on your thigh once a day. He also said that low t and low thyroid are completely independent issues and one does not affect the other. He also said that body builders supplements or more natural approaches are unlikely to work from a low base line. So it's gel or injections. Hope this helps.

  • Your endo is wrong. My experience proves it. You cannot have good levels of higher-order hormones if your thyroid is tanking.

  • Hi sorry small degree of irony in my comment, I think testo is a pituitary hormone as well so there surely has to be a link. Im trying it because most of my numbers are ok and I need the strength back. been on T3+T4 combo for a couple of months now just trying to balance it all out.

  • If you have your FT4 in-range and your FT3 into the upper half of its range, you could try DHEA therapy (or have you already)? Kent Holtorf MD recommends his male patients be on between 10 and 25mg of DHEA. I've seen another anti-aging doc recommend that you make sure your DHEA-S lab test is in the 300-400 mcg/dl range. My last DHEA-S test showed about 395. The main reason I bring this up is that oral hormone therapy isn't real expensive. I tried testosterone transdermal gel and shots, but they were expensive and, because both my thyroid and DHEA were tanked by celiac, I found that supplemental testosterone wasn't giving me the 'feel-good' benefit that doctors claim it has. Proper thyroid and DHEA levels do, however, give me that 'feel-good' benefit.

  • Haven't tried dhea yet, will look into it. Think I'm getting some adrenal symptoms tired on waking, getting the 3pm crash, feel my best about 9pm. Circadian rhythm ?

  • Probably. I'd check it with a 5-sample saliva test. Are you fully euthyroid yet? Adrenals need T3. I also found that adrenals like amino acids, cuz a small dose of essential amino acids puts me back to sleep.

  • Hi Eddie,

    It is expensive and an average working person cannot afford those gels and shots. I will be sure to pass all this info off to my brother. Very interesting! He will be going to an endo guy but I told my brother he might have to go see a few of them as they are all not created equal. My brother told me he didn't know there was so much to it. I am walking with him on all of this.

    He wants to get off the fentinyl patches. All the docs keep doing is giving him these patches as a fix. I told him we need to find a doc with other options for him. Wish us luck on all of this!

    Thank you so much and I love you guys and no one has been mislead. I love all of you!!!

  • You should warn your brother that there are, in my experience, endos out there with character disorders. They are stuck in dogma and they just.dont.care. He has to be ready to cut his losses by moving from doctor to doctor. Synthetic opioids like fentanyl are not a solution, merely a bandaid - like most BigPharma products (most of which are foreign to body chemistry).

  • Eddie,

    I so love you kiddo. It's so true. It is a band-aid and all they keep doing is prescribing him more and more stuff. Really!?? It makes me angry that this goes on in our medical field. I, too, have been through that from moving from one doctor to another. I found a doctor here and I have to go back to him every four weeks but the is 200 dollars every time I go to him. I truly hope my levels start leveling so I can tapper that off. And he is a naturalist too. I went to several clinics here and a lot of them don't help me as I am a breast cancer survivor and I feel I am discriminated against. Also, lots of them don't like when you are your own advocate. One doctor wanted put me on levo and I told her I was on levo and it did nothing for me. She said well, that is my recommendation lol I told her well, I guess if that's your recommendation I'm going else where. And I did. My doctor I had passed away and I am in the same boat searching for one. I think I like this new doc but he is expensive and then on top of paying for my meds. I am passing you advice on to him. I need to get him on this site but he is not good with computers. I love you guys so much!!!

  • What is the status of his thyroid and adrenal hormones? I can tell you that, after my bout with lifelong celiac that wrecked my thyroid, etc. ... once I was on T3+T4 and DHEA to counteract the damage that was done, my testosterone came up quite nicely.

    He should have the full thyroid panel TSH/FT3/FT4/rT3/TPOAb/TGAb by a practitioner who knows more than the average MD; a saliva cortisol (level+rhythm) test (or a 24-hour urine cortisol if he can't get that); and a DHEA-S level, at a minimum. It sounds like (with the Fentanyl and all) that he likely has nutritional deficiencies, one or more food sensitivities, and maybe a toxic diet in general (esp. if he uses a lot of sugar, alcohol, and gluten).

  • I agree he needs a complete hormone panel and not just male hormones. A competent endo will want to see how much estradiol is there, to determine if he's converting testosterone to estradiol. If that's the case aromatase inhibitors or meds that block estrogen receptors such as Tamoxifen might be prescribed. T replacement is not always the answer.

  • How old is your brother & what sort of shape is he in? Much body fat?

    He should have some further tests done to determine whether his issue is Primary or Secondary, IE, Pituitary or Testes.

    Prolactin, LH, FSH

    Plus Estradiol E2 & SHBG are helpful.

    BTW, Gels are better than Creams, but if insurance won't cover, injectedions are much cheaper, but more information needed first.

    Dr Crisler's forum is a mine of information: allthingsmale.com/community...

  • debber's profile shows that she is in the USA - so I'd tend to assume (unless we hear otherwise) that so too is her brother.

  • Aha, in that case, Dr Crisler's forum is the place to get help!

    allthingsmale.com/community...

  • Yeah, he is in the US too. I am in the US too but I have a lot of family over there and I am married to a UK guy. It doesn't get any better than that.

  • Hi Kniackersyard,

    My brother is 56. He has started going to the gym and started on the treadmill and bike. He is not able to do a lot of things still. He is trying though. He has an appointment with the endo doc and he is going to ask for all levels to be tested. I can't stand the fact that his doc now just prescribes him these pain patches and nothing else to try to resolve this issue. My brother does need to lose some weight as he has gained with not being able to do a lot since his wreck. I will keep you all posted on what the doctors say and we are taking little steps. Thank you so much for you guys input. You-all rock!!! Debbs

  • Hi Debber

    Well he's certainly at an age where "andropause" is common.

    Body fat is an important factor, as fat cells convert Testosteone to Estrogen. This is a normal process & all men need a small amount, but when the balance is tipped, it's a downhill struggle. Estrogen creates fat & fat converts Estrogen. Then to make it worse, Estrogen blocks Testosteone & is about 3x more potent :(. That's why some men start to look like Mrs Doubtfire.... Chubby face, reduced facial hair & a lovely pair of man boobs....

    A Low Carb diet will help. He needs to get rid of that Fat!!!

    There are drugs he could be prescribed to reduce Estrogen, such as Clomid or Arimidex.

    Whilst excersize can increase Testosteone, it is minimal!

    Figures like your brother's suggest a problem.

    This can be either "Primary", IE, his Pituitary gland isn't sending the signal to produce Testosteone, or "Secondary", his testicles aren't doing their job....

    LH & FSH will determine this.

    Prolactin will show if there's an issue with the Pituitary, which could be a tumour (normally benign & easily removed).

    I thoroughly recommend he post up his issues on Dr Crisler's forum. Just like Thyroid issues, Male Hormones are criminally misunderstood/misdiagnosed/ignored etc... Depending where you are, he may even be able to see Dr Crisler or else the guys can recommend him someone.

    Also, those guys know about the American Insurance companies, so will advise him of every detail.

    Good luck!

  • He may already have been tested for this, but when my husband went to the GP with fatigue and joint pain, he was found to have a low testosterone level and was subsequently diagnosed with genetic haemochromatosis. Luckily, this was caught early but if it had gone undetected, there could have been serious repercussions. My understanding is that many doctors are still unaware of the prevalence of this condition which is so easily treatable if diagnosed early. As many as 1 in 200 could be affected.

  • Interesting Busybird. All the doc keeps doing is giving him the fentyl (?) patches and I don't think that is the answer. He has low T I told him. They didn't test for thyroid lol I can't believe these doctors today. He is going to an endo doc and I'm going with him. I will be right there with him as I will be bringing all of this up. Doctors frustrate me so much. That is what he has is fatigue and joint pain and back back, but he was in an accident and is able to manage his pain now but he needs to get off those patches and they do nothing for him to do that. I want to find a doc to help him with other options and maybe he will be able to. And of course with his numbers. I believe he has a thyroid issue as I do. I believe it's hereditary. I tell my brother this and I don't think he realizes the impact that it makes on a body.

    Thank you so much for all of you guys input. Very interesting! Men and women are not different from each other at all..

    Love, Debbs xxxxxooooo

  • It was actually an Endo who pointed my husband in the right direction. It may be worth mentioning a genetic test. We went to a support meeting a couple of months ago and it became apparent as to how lucky my husband was to be diagnosed. Some of the sufferers there did not have such a good deal. At the very least it could rule the condition out.

  • This very short video might help you work out how testosterone comes to be created, and what comes first :

    vimeo.com/3818805

  • Do you have a full panel of tests, including SHBG, Estrogen, LH, FSH, TSH, Free T4, Free T3? Unless your brother is grossly malnourished, I would ignore people telling you to have him change his diet. I had low T for years, although not as low as your brothers. Mine was at the bottom of the range. I tried several different diets ranging from paleo to vegan, and I did them strictly. They make little to no difference. For 10 years I searched for answers, and saw several different doctors, including HRT specialists. I was on gels, creams, and different levels and methods of testosterone replacement. Although my testosterone levels increased to the top of the range I still did not feel right. Finally I tested myself for TSH, Free T3, Free T4, and hashimotos. I found my free T3 was on the low end, and my TSH was on the high end. I have since been treated with Armour, and my testosterone levels became so high I needed to stop testosterone. I have been off testosterone for a few weeks now, and feel fine while still increasing my armour dosage (on 4 grains now). My brother was in a similar situation but never supplemented with testosterone. He had his thyroid levels tested and found the same thing. His TSH was elevated, and Free T3 level on low end. After taking Armour his total testosterone level is up 50%. I am not saying this is your brothers issue but my point is that holistic and alternative medicine, organic food, blah blah blah, does not work in my opinion. I have tried multiple diets, and supplements, including those mentioned in this thread. None worked except real medicine once I found the cause. You should have the levels I listed above tested. These will tell you if your brothers problem is with the signal going to his testicles, or if it is a primary issue with his testicles. If his LH is high, but testosterone is low then he most likely has a primary issue with his testicles which there is no cure for- just testosterone replacement- brain is sending a signal (LH), but testes are not responding. If his LH and FSH are low then his brain is not sending a big enough signal to his testes. This was the issue I had. My LH and FSH levels were low so the signal was not going to the testes. not only was my testosterone low, but so was my estrogen- it was below the bottom of the range. Now it is at the top of the range (too high actually). The thyroid does control the sex hormones despite what doctors say- I have proof. You should also test estrogen. If he has high estrogen it will lower testosterone. My cholesterol was very high, and is now normal- another sign of thyroid issue. Also, I want to note that I have never been overweight- actually the opposite. I want to point this out because I missed the diagnosis of hypothyroid for so long because the main symptom of hypothyroid is usually being overweight. Again, not saying your brother is hypothyroid- just giving my scenario. I would have these tests done at a minimum, and post them back here.

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