Blood Results after changing to Armour from Eltroxin after 12 weeks!!

[Crlnfly]

01/09/2015

Creatine 81 (44 - 80)

Urea 5 (2.5 - 7.8)

Free Thyroxine 3.7 (12 - 22)

TSH 146.90 (0.27 - 4.2)

Free T3 1.5 (3.1 - 6.8)

My doc originally wanted me to start with 2 grains of Armour as i was taking 200mg of Eltroxin, but after 10 days i was getting very bad palpitations, severe sweats, anxiety etc, so i reduced the dosage by half, and then split it into 2 half doses per day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. this was still too much so kept reducing it by a quarter every 2 days.

Eventually when i had my bloods done i was only taking 20mg per day in 2 15mg doses, obviously from looking at bloods tsh it was too little. I am now on 90 mg per day, 60mg in the morning and 30mg in afternoon. I have 4 weeks to get my TSH someway near normal or doc said it will be back to Eltroxin

I feel better than i have in the last 10 years, more energy, and definately less brain fog which is the most positive thing. i need to get myself up to 2 grains of armour, asap, so bloods will improve in 3 weeks time!!

Any suggestions welcome please

[Hidden]

Usually, on when optimally treated with NDT, your FT4 levels are more or less midrange, your FT3 levels at the top of the range, and your TSH suppressed.

Both your FTs are very low, and your TSH very high. I was wondering if it is really 146, and not 14.6???

It would be interesting to know what your labs looked like on 200 mcg of Eltroxin?

[Crlnfly in reply to Hidden]

i have them i will post them now

[Crlnfly in reply to Hidden]

Bloods BEFORE Armour!!

TSH 0.015 (0.27 - 4.2)

Free Tyroxine 18.8 (12 - 22)

[Crlnfly in reply to Hidden]

Yes it is 146.90!! the lab rang the doc with results, and thats why he has given me 4 weeks to see improvement, he never seen such high figures!!

[waveylines]

I think you went the wrong way by reducing the meds. You can get palpitations for being under medicated. When I transferred from levothyroxine to a NDT I did a straight conversions to the grain equivalent -usually you do not need to start again. Then tweak your dose from there.

I think your doc is being unrealistic to think you can get your bloods back on track so quickly!! Surely he must know that it takes months for endocrine systems to sort out not three weeks!!

Keep a record of your dose, daily temp (first thing as you wake) and pulse rate, plus your symptoms. Can be helpful to look back over.

[Crlnfly in reply to waveylines]

Hi i did start at the 2 grains of armour as that would have been the equivalent of 200mg eltroxin, but as i said the symptoms i had especially the sweats, and really vivid nightmares made me think i was over dosing too quickly so thats why i reduced, but i obviously reduced too much, think i was afraid to increase too quickly, as most advice here seemed to say increase armour SLOWLY so that your body can get used to the T3! Its Sooooooo confusing xx

[waveylines in reply to Crlnfly]

Sorry crinfly.....you are right 2grains is the equivalent for 200mcg of levothyroxine.

Maybe what happened is that the t4 was back stacked in your system from taking levothyroxine and not absorbing it into your cells properly -when you started the NDT the T3 element enabled the conversion and a lot more got converted to t3 causing the palpitations.

It is confusing and the trouble is everyone is different. Did you keep a record of temperature/pulse rate -they can give valuable clues as to what direction your are going in.

Glad to hear it is helping though. Sounds like yore on the right lines -just need to increase in steady increments now.....

[waveylines]

Ooh forgot to say re blood test results. Being on a NDT will lead to your TSH being suppressed. What's more relevant is your thyroid hormone levels and how you are feeling. For most people your ft4 & ft3 falling in the top third of the range is when most people feel well. make sure when you have your blood test you haven't taken your meds for the 24hours before as this will skew the results -best taken early morning.

[Crlnfly]

Bloods BEFORE Armour!!

TSH 0.015 (0.27 - 4.2)

Free Tyroxine 18.8 (12 - 22)

[Hidden]

I must say I have no idea why your FTs look the way they do on Armour...I cannot help but wonder if you would do better on another brand? I cannot for the life of me understand how your TSH could go from suppressed to +140...usually, on NDT, it's the other way around.

I hope someone here has an idea what is going on, because I have to admit to being clueless...! But I'd be really interested in finding out, as I have been considering trying Armour instead of Erfa...so it would be really interesting to know if anyone here has experienced the same thing, or has any idea what causes your TSH on Armour..

[Crlnfly in reply to Hidden]

yes i agree, thats the really strange bit is the TSH, the lab rang the doc said they had never seen anything like it!!. but from reading posts here, i think its because i was too slow getting the armour into me, and when the palps started and also forgot to mention really bad headaches, i thought i better reduce the armour and go more slowly, which is (i think) what caused the tsh to go so high??

But looking at posts now they say that palps are the sign that we are under medicated!! The whole thing is just so confusing xx havnt taken temps before, so will buy a good thermometer and start recording them, see if that will help. it would be great to know if we need to reduce or increase meds, while we are waiting on bloods every 12 weeks

I am not sorry that i changed though, the changes in my mental state have been incredible, and thats only after 3 months, i said to doc that i would be willing to muddle through with the armour for at least 12 months to get to the right dose

It took me 2 whole years to convince him to let me try the armour so im praying there is an improvement in my next blood test so that he will leave me keep trying xxx

[diogenes Remembering]

With a "crazy" TSH like this I'd begin to suspect something wrong with the test. You should try to get it tested by another method as it's just possible either a) they made a mistake or b) you have developed antibodies in your blood that interfere directly with the TSH test itself. These are known and can interfere strongly. Was the TSH test that gave 0.015 the same as the one giving 146?

[Crlnfly in reply to diogenes]

yes the same blood test, and the same doc and lab. i think why it was so high is that i wasnt getting enough armour into me, i basically went from 200mg eltroxin to roughly around 15mg of armour (which is Minute!!) thats what i was taking daily when i had the test done, and i hadnt taken my meds before test. so fingers crossed if i can get up to 2 grains daily, which was the original dose, before next test , there should be major improvement with TSH (fingers crossed ) lol

[Hidden in reply to Crlnfly]

But 2 grains of NDT is not that low a dose...so it surprises me it would not only fail to suppress your TSH, but actually make it rise like that...as 2 grains of Armour contains 18 mcg of T3, I don't even know how that is possible...!

[Crlnfly in reply to Hidden]

I think because i wasnt getting the full 2 grains into me, that's why the TSH was so high?? i hope to see that number reduced big time in my next bloods as i will have the 2 grains daily by then I think thats the way it should work anyway, hopefully someone might be able to clear this up for us

[waveylines]

Hi cat 346 -I came off Erfa as went downhill after they moved production to a different country, changed pill pressing machinery. I don't tolerate Armour because of the cellulose content (was fine on the old formular which didn't have it in it) so went across to WP Thyroid that has natural fillers only. I understand from others that Armour has gone back to their old formular for the lower dose tablets.

[Hidden in reply to waveylines]

Interesting, maybe I should try them out...as I have not been doing as great as I used to on Erfa, even though the manufacturer denies any problem...

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

PS. Would you know where "lower strengths" stop? At 60, 90, or 120 mg...? Just wondering.

How easy has it been for you to get WP Thyroid? I have been thinking about trying to get it, just to be able to compare it with Erfa, but the fact is that Thai NDT is easier to get, as it's sold as an OTC product...so, it feels like it's always one step forward and two steps back...!