Fact or fiction?

I've noticed that iodine can lower thyroid antibodies but most thyroid groups have this unjustifiable phobia of iodine that when I posted a pro iodine article by Dr Sircus stating anyone who tells you to stay away from iodine is a medical idiot, I got deleted from the group. Why? I also take progesterone and dhea.

[galathea]

No idea, I took iodine for a while, till I got bored.... Probably about 6 months. I can't say I noticed any difference at all. I have hashimotos.

G xx

[Clutter]

Aspie2u, Perhaps they didn't care for being called medical idiots?

Iodine supplementation is very controversial. If someone is iodine deficient they may benefit from supplementing but they really should test first. Over supplementation of iodine can cause Hashimoto's and it's usually advised that Hashi patients avoid iodine.

If you type Iodine into the HU Search box you'll find thousands of posts discussing iodine.

[Hidden in reply to Clutter]

I didn't call anyone an idiot. The article by Dr Sircus said anyone who tells you to stay away from iodine is a medical idiot. And besides iodine wouldn't cause Hashimotos to worsen as I have the early stages of it. If people get offended by the truth instead of propaganda, it's not my problem

[marram in reply to Hidden]

I assume that since you are still here, that it was not this group that deleted you, am I right?

However, since the purpose of this group is support and advice, rather than confrontation, perhaps you might just like to post the link to the article and see what happens? I think you overlooked that.

Generally, arguments and confrontations tends to be counter-productive, and because so many are very sensitive as a result of their condition, it can result in some being inhibited from posting comments and questions.

DHEA is another controversial subject because unless you can produce a prescription or a letter explaining why you are using DHEA, it is actually illegal to possess it. Of course, if it is supplied for medical reasons on the recommendation of a doctor, then it it perfectly legal. Just thought I would get that one out of the way too.

Marie xxx

[Jazzw in reply to Hidden]

Dr Sircus said anyone who tells you to stay away from iodine is a medical idiot. But I don't know if he's wrong or he's right. That's the problem. One person says it's fine to take iodine, another one says don't go there.

Do you see why folk get defensive? How do you know that's the truth? It's the truth according to Dr Sircus - but has he run extensive trials to prove he's right? Can he cite reams of research?

Now, we're not sensitive particularly here at Thyroid UK - you'll find many views and opinions cited here, some of them backed up by research, others by personal experience. Dr Sircus might be right. But equally, he might be wrong. Some people will be fine following his advice - others won't. If one treatment protocol fitted all, there'd probably be no need for this support board.

[faith63 in reply to Hidden]

Dr. Sircus is giving his opinion. It is not the truth for everyone.

[cc120 in reply to Clutter]

Is it true that applying iodine via the skin, as with lugols solution, that the body takes up what it requires and no more?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to cc120]

Seems unlikely to me.

This paper clearly suggests it is not the case for the ear.

Eur Arch Otorhinolaryngol. 2001 Mar;258(3):109-11.

Acute cochleovestibular toxicity due to topical application of potassium iodide.

Boudewyns A1, Claes J.

Author information

Abstract

We present a case report of a patient who suffered from an acute cochleovestibular deficit after topical application of potassium iodide solution into the left ear. Although the vestibular symptoms progressively disappeared, severe sensorineural hearing loss persisted after treatment with hyperbaric oxygen therapy and intravenous administration of corticosteroids and vasodilating agents. The mechanisms of ototoxicity after topical application of solutions are discussed with emphasis on the particular features of the present case: a patulous Eustachian tube syndrome and the presence of a tympanostomy tube in the left ear.

PMID:

11374249

[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/145...

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to helvella]

And...

Ann Ophthalmol. 1993 Dec;25(12):457-8.

Cystoid macular edema associated with topical echothiophate iodide.

Halperin LS, Goldman HB.

Abstract

We report the case of a patient with visual loss and cystoid macular edema that was associated with the topical use of echothiophate iodide. After cessation of the drops, the cystoid macular edema nearly disappeared, and vision returned to normal.

PMID:

8129329

[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/812...

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to helvella]

Although burns patients may well have all sorts of issues and so are not directly comparable to others, this paper seemed particularly powerful.

Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1975 Mar;17(3):355-62.

Iodine absorption in burn patients treated topically with povidone-iodine.

Lavelle KJ, Doedens DJ, Kleit SA, Forney RB.

Abstract

Providone-iodine is used as a topical antimicrobial in burn patients. Although absorption of iodine has been thought to be negligible, several patients have recently been noted with substantial elevations of serum free iodide. Unexplained abnormalities occurred in several of these patients, renal failure, metabolic acidosis, and elevation of serum glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase. It is conceivable that the large iodide loads noted were at least in part responsible for these abnormalities.

PMID:

235397

[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/235397

[cc120 in reply to helvella]

Thank you Heleva, is the iodine they've used in these cases, the same as lugols?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to cc120]

Iodine tends to get oxidised on the skin. (This is one reason that the iodine patch test is unreliable.) Rate of oxidation varies. So whether iodine, iodide or a mixture is applied, what ends up being absorbed may well be different (more iodide/less iodine).

[cc120 in reply to helvella]

Lugal's (15% proof) contains: 3mg iodine and 4.6mg iodide, per 30ml bottle?

[Heloise]

One of my first posts here was asking the question "Are you Iodine Deficient?" I got some pushback but I have yet to hear of an incident where it threw anyone into a thyroid storm or multiplied antibodies by a significant amount.

But over the years, I've decided that iodine deficiency may be also brought about because of other halides like fluoride and bromine. These toxins use the same receptors as iodine.

[greygoose in reply to Heloise]

But have you heard of an incident where antibodies were lowered by taking iodine. I think that's the question.

[Heloise in reply to greygoose]

I think Brownstein is one of the advocates and I haven't looked him up lately but he might have the information. It's so difficult for individuals to get verification testing since doctors don't even want to initiate testing.

[greygoose in reply to Heloise]

Exactly. So you wouldn't know if it had increased antibodies, either. However, excessive iodine can most certainly trigger Hashi's if you have the gene.

[Heloise in reply to greygoose]

Remember the discussion about what is excessive?

Excess Iodine flushes right out of your system, that is how they test it, so how can it cause a problem?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Heloise]

If it were that simple we would NOT see people suffering from the use of iodine or iodine-based substances in several medical roles. For example, as a contrast agent in various imaging processes, as a disinfectant on wounds (surgical or accidental), and to those in danger of exposure to radio-active substances.

Iodine testing doesn't continually dose with significant doses of iodine day after day as happens when people supplement with high doses.

There are many, many papers on PubMed which explore sometimes tiny niches. The overall picture that seems to be revealed is that both too little and too much iodine are categorically "bad things". The difficulty, as ever, where those bounds can be set. (Like most things, they are probably variable from one person to another.)

[Heloise in reply to helvella]

Doesn't an allergy differ from an overdose?

They gave large amounts of benedryl to people with seafood allergies when having catheterization but they give epinephrine when eating seafood causes anaphylaxis? Have you read the difference because I haven't and don't know if they are similar or not.

I know there was a real shortage of iodine supplements during the nuclear disaster in Japan.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Heloise]

What benadryl? There are numerous different products with the overall branding Benadryl and, not being personally aware of north American products, I don't know what you are referring to.

Funnily enough, that was specifically mentioned in my post earlier today:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Heloise in reply to helvella]

Really, numerous and different formulations of Benadryl? Hmmm. Are some liquid and some dry? Benadryl comes in both forms here.

Patented products are going to have to have a name which differs from the chemical name I would think. Even generics have a "name", right? In the U.S. we have many "throids" representing generic T4. You need to differentiate among different brands.....and then hope you have the correct formulation.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Heloise]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benadryl

[Heloise in reply to helvella]

Then again, epinephrine is that last thing you would give a person who was overdosing on thyroid hormone, right?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Heloise]

Emergency medicine does some things that may seem positively dangerous. But it does them because not doing them could be worse. I wouldn't care to make any comment on such a situation.

In the UK, epinephrine is called adrenaline. (Our only departure from INN names.)

[Heloise in reply to helvella]

I found this treatment for an overdose of T4:

First.1 Propylthiouracil is the preferred drug. In addition to preventing the production of more T4 and T3 in the thyroid, it blocks the conversion of T4 to T3 outside of the thyroid, resulting in a rapid reduction in the level of circulating hormone.5 Methimazole blocks the production of T4 and T3, but it does not prevent T4 from converting to T3, so it takes longer to reduce the level of circulating thyroid hormone. Because both drugs are available only in oral form, they must be administered by mouth or feeding tube.4

Neither of these drugs, however, blocks the in-between step?that is, the step prior to conversion, when stored T4 and T3 are released from the thyroid. To block their release, you'll need to wait at least an hour after giving propylthiouracil or methima- zole and administer inorganic iodide?either Lugol's solution or saturated solution of potassium iodide (Pima, SSKI).4 If you give the iodide too soon after the propylthiouracil or methimazole, the body will use the iodide to produce more T4. The inorganic iodides are available only in an oral preparation.

[greygoose in reply to Heloise]

If excess iodine is flushed out of the system, why is my level of iodine about 10 times the top of the range? And I'm not even supplementing iodine, just taking thyroid hormone replacement.

[Heloise in reply to greygoose]

Is that a urine test?

[Silver_Fairy in reply to Heloise]

I was diagnosed with Graves after being on Amiodarone for two years for AF. Looking back I had mild symptoms on occasions of hyperthyroidism but nothing like the full blown ones after taking Amiodarone.

[Heloise in reply to Silver_Fairy]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiod...

It's quite complicated to treat heart problems but I know that thyroid affects the heart in several ways, enlarged venticle and lag in the r wave so that may be the reason you ended up on medication. If they would just treat the thyroid correctly!

[Silver_Fairy in reply to Heloise]

No, unfortunately, I contracted an infection which led to Constrictive Pericarditis. I was very ill and was hospitalised 17 times with AF. Sadly, Amiodarone was the only medication that worked for me.

[Hidden]

hello aspie2u,

I understood that iodine can stimulate the thyroid gland to produce more hormone which, if you suffer from Hashimotos will encourage further antibodies to attack the gland. However, maybe it's ok to supplement iodine if you haven't any gland left but who knows?

Dr Issabella Wentz states that iodine supplementation should always be supervised and only undertaken when thyroid antibody level is tested as very

low.

There are many studies showing that too much or too little iodine will effect thyroid hormones.

I would suggest iodine levels would need testing and monitoring whilst supplementing iodine.

Just keep researching asie2u so that you can make your own choices with informed decisions.

Good luck

flower007

[HIFL]

If you want the facts about iodine, read the iodine chapter in the Tired Thyroid book.

There are 3 possible results after iodine supplementation:

1) you become hyperthyroid

2) you become hypothyroid

3) your health improves if you were "just" iodine deficient

Of course, everyone wants outcome #3, but you only have a 1 in 3 chance to obtain that result. Dr. Sircus' article is an example of medical idiocy, since he ignores outcomes #1 and #2. Good for him if he experienced #3, but there are many, many people who have not been that fortunate.

[Apples in reply to HIFL]

Um, I am not sure 3 results means you have a 1 in 3 chance of one of them.

It may be that more people have 1) as a result than have 2) or 3) So there may be a 3 in 6 chance of 1) a 2 in 6 of 2) and a 1 in 6 of 3) or some other set of proportions.

[HIFL in reply to Apples]

You're absolutely correct, and I was just thinking that on rereading my post, then read your comment. To clarify, while there are 3 possible outcomes, they could be spread out 20%, 50%, 30%. If this were true, then 70% of the people taking iodine would have a bad outcome. Of course, the percentages could be 10%, 10%, 80% too. That would mean 80% of people taking iodine would have a positive outcome. However, from reading many thyroid forums, I think the first scenario may be more realistic, though iodine proponents will have you believe that 100% of patients have outcome #3. Now THAT is medical idiocy!

[greygoose in reply to HIFL]

There is a fourth possibility : it triggers Hashi's.

[faith63]

It is not an unjustifiable phobia!! I spent 8 months trembling, heart racing and weak, during my last flare up..i don't want to go thru that again. ndt caused it.

Just get checked for Iodine, easy enough, if low, try it and see what happens.. but be aware that it can take months to get over a flare up.

[silverfox7]

Gosh life can be a nightmare at times and I expect the expression I'm dammed if I do and I'm damned if I don't can apply to so many situations. i think I want to have an iodine test as I used to take a low dose of kelp but then stopped all supplements for a time but that was something I didn't start up with again so has that brought about my current feelings? May be but about the same time I was driving around in a recently bought brand new car and read about the bromine link so wondered about that. Quite damming reports with lists of good and bad cars but nothing after 2012 so does the problem still exist or what? Apparently that's a problem in the glue and so down to where the cars are made so UK is one of the safer places. Thankfully my Japanese car is made in Derby! So why am I not feeling too good? Anybodies guess but we are all different and react differently so I think like most things there is no definitive answer but just something else to add to the test list!