Natural progesterone and hot flushes: Hi All I... - Thyroid UK

Thyroid UK
102,849 members118,762 posts

Natural progesterone and hot flushes

Daffers123
Daffers123
27 Replies

Hi All

I finished the menopause 5 years ago and have had so signs or symptoms since. A dr suggested I try ~Wellsprings bio identical hormone cream as my progesterone levels were low. SInce using it, I have noticed that I am getting hot flushes again at night and wondering if its this cream.

Anyone else had experience

Andrea

27 Replies
oldestnewest
gabkad

Daffers, hot flashes originate from the hypothalamus which is the body's thermostat. Normally our internal body temperature fluctuates and this does not cause hot flashes. But when the hormones are fluctuating (up or down) the thermostat gets super sensitive to extremely minor core temperature changes. This is what causes the hot flashes: the body is told by the hypothalamus to open up superficial blood vessels to cool down the body and if it signals strong enough, a person also perspires. This can vary from just the forehead to the entire face or down to the neck or even further.

Why did this doctor recommend a trial of hormones when your menopause was easy?

1 like
Reply
Daffers123
Daffers123
in reply to gabkad

It was Dr P - and I was consulting him about my underactive thyroid (treated not very well on Levo for 8 years). I had a lot of tests done at his suggestion and one was sex hormones, and the results said my progesterone was low. So he advised using the cream, along with Nutri thyroid and Nutri Adrenal, neither of which agreed with me. I had hoped to get onto a trial of NDT, never did, felt so ropey on the Nutri products just gave up and went back on Levo...and thats another bad experience.

I have been sweating (my whole body that is, really perspiring badly, during the night. I will leave off the cream again tonight and see what happens. Maybe theres something else going on.

I am so admiring of your knowledge, thanks for taking the trouble to send me the info.

1 like
Reply
gabkad
gabkad
in reply to Daffers123

That's the thing Daffers: your body was in homeostasis post menopause. Upsetting this will cause symptoms. The nurse study where estrogen was given to women who had long past gone through unremarkable menopause with no hormone replacement suffered a high rate of heart attack. Why? Because they were perfectly fine aged 60 to 70. Any disruption of homeostasis, is going to create a cascade of events that may or may not be beneficial.

Of course, this was not reported accurately in the media. Instead it was sensationalized, so women and doctors were all fleeing from hormone replacement therapy even in situations where women were truly suffering from perimenopausal or menopausal symptoms. This is just as dangerous because lack of sleep results in very poor performance during the day. A driver who has not slept properly for nights on end is no better than a drunk driver.

Even my doctor was all anti-HRT at the time. I told her she should read the actual study before she goes off on a tangent instead of relying on the media hype written by journos who don't know the difference between a protozoan and a virus.

1 like
Reply
Daffers123
Daffers123
in reply to gabkad

Gosh thanks for explaining that to me. Thankfully I haven't been using it for long - and I didnt use HRT during the menopause as it didnt agree with me. DO you really talk to your doctor like that ? I wish I was a bit braver and more knowledgable.

Thanks again and no more bio stuff for ME! Id rather not sweat, they were horrible enough when they came at the menopause.

Reply
gabkad
gabkad
in reply to Daffers123

My doctor prefers she sees less of me than more. ;) We don't really get along very well at all and she's made some gigantic bloopers over the years. It's hard to get a new doctor around here. You only get taken into a new practice if you have no physician. I'm kind of stuck.

1 like
Reply
Daffers123
Daffers123
in reply to gabkad

Where are you ? Its getting quite tricky in general I think with health matters, no doctor has enough time (10 minutes is quite unsatisfactory) and I find all they want to give me is anti anxiety meds. I want to get to the bottom of stuff and its costing me a fortune, so I hope I get there.

I think the doctors don't like us to know stuff or have opinions, I found that with my end and I know diddly squat compared to you, so I bet yours DREADS you coming in LOL

1 like
Reply
gabkad
gabkad
in reply to Daffers123

Canada. We have a GP shortage. So you are stuck unless the doctor retires or dies.

I almost died of a viral infection back in 1996. I even managed to have someone drive me to her office. I reported my fever, based on two digital thermometers (it was 42.5C which is so high apparently a person shouldn't be able to survive). But she never took my temperature and kept putting in reports that it had been 41.5C. Eventually I gave her whatfor about this because she had no right to change anything. It is not even legal to put information in medical reports that is false. If she was not comfortable, then she should have stated 'the patient reports' or, as I told her, 'you should have taken my temperature when I was here. You did not. Do you even own a thermometer?' No response.

After that incident, whenever my daughter has to see her because she's sick with a fever, she gets her temperature taken too.

I conclude the doctor did not have a thermometer. These days with the digital ear thermometers (which may be more accurate now than when initially introduced) it's not a big deal to get a reading. They use them at airports when screening for infectious diseases like now in parts of Africa (like Rwanda for example) due to Ebola.

Reply
gabkad
gabkad
in reply to Daffers123

Progesterone levels ARE low post menopause. That's normal. But if you want to experiment, use 1/4 of the dose. See if that causes hot flashes or not. Twice per day application. Give it two weeks. This stuff works quickly, as you've probably realized. Then if at 1/4 dose you have no adverse side effects, increase it slightly to below 1/2 dose. If that's okay, then leave it at that. Maybe even a slight increase will give you whatever it is you are looking for. This is the good thing about using a cream. You are in control of dosing.

Progesterone has neuroprotective effects. They're using huge doses for people who have traumatic brain injury (lots of them were coming back from places like Afghanistan and Iraq). It's been found to be the only therapy that actually works.

1 like
Reply
Daffers123
Daffers123
in reply to gabkad

I think Im better sticking with nature and low post menopause levels of progesterone. I feel I am in such as mess with the thyroid and struggling with T3 and lack of sleep, its probably best not to complicate things further.

Sorry to hear about your shortage of Doctors - in Canada of all places - must make life very difficult for you. In the UK we have shortage of doctors with time for you, and any pill just to get you out of the door and the next one in. Must be like working in a call centre...

Reply
LisaKEva
LisaKEva
in reply to Daffers123

It's the Levothyroxine 😞

Reply
Barrister

I had a very easy menopause, only getting the odd hot flush. I did some reading and found that high dose sage (2000mg) was considered to be helpful. I tried this and within a week my occasional flushes were even fewer. I found it really helpful. Clemmie

1 like
Reply
Daffers123

That sounds great and def worth a try, Lucky you for getting an easy one though.

Best wishes

A

Reply
mazb

Hi - it's brilliant that a doctor suggested that you try Wellsprings Serenity - did he prescribe it - or did you buy it direct from them?

The fact you have hot flushes suggests that you may be lacking some oestrogen as well as progesterone.

I am 2 years past my menopause and haven't had a hot flush yet (as far as I know). I think I was, (or still could be), oestrogen dominant, which often is around when the thyroid struggles.

I have found Wellsprings Serenity quite helpful in balancing up my hormones pre and post menopause.

Did you read the quite comprehensive booklet that Wellsprings send with the order?

It gives details on how to apply it - and, also, if you find some symptoms worsen they explain what to do in cutting down the amount for a while - as I think they explain the oestrogen receptors are 'waking up.'

But, they also do a 20/1 cream which includes 1 part oestrogen for those who really need it.

Forgotten what it's called but it will be on their website.

progesteronetest.co.uk/20-1...

1 like
Reply
Daffers123
Daffers123
in reply to mazb

Hi Maz,

I didn't get abooklet with mine. Will look it up. I did try the 20/1 as it sounded more suitable for my age/post meno stage, but when it arrived it contained soya and thats something I have to avoid like the plague.

Can you explain what estrogen dominant means, if you have a moment, and how I can find out if thats my problem, as I am really struggling to take T3 successfully.

Would be very grateful and thanks for the link which I am about to follow up.

Hope you are OK. By the way, the doctor was Dr Barry DP and I had to buy it

Best wishes

Reply
mazb
mazb
in reply to Daffers123

Hi Daffers - sorry about the long delay in replying - been busy and extra exhausted as mom not well.

Oestrogen Dominant - wellsprings-health.com/page...

and - this article is very informative, but because it's now 20 years old, discard the bit about natural progesterone made from 'wild yam.' (That has been found NOT to work), but the rest is mostly factual biology.

ion.ac.uk/information/onarc...

"An underactive thyroid gland can give rise to a similar set of symptoms as oestrogen dominance and PMS. It is known that too much oestrogen affects thyroid hormone...."

"All hormones are very much dependent upon each other to maintain the balance of the whole body. If an imbalance arises in one hormone, it is likely to ultimately affect the balance of other hormones..."

Thanks for info. that it was Dr. Barry DP (Peatfield?)

Last I heard he was in hospital - I am thinking he's not NHS and is not in my area if I remember right.

I need to try my docs though - wish I had more time and energy.

Reply
Daffers123
Daffers123
in reply to mazb

thanks for reply and hope your mom is getting better (and you as well, its so exhausting keeping on top of it all)

Very interesting article - I am now going to have a look at my Sex Hormones blood results.

Best wishes

Reply
Angel_of_the_North

If you feel well and have no symptoms, you probably don't need extra extra progesterone, so you may have given yourself a hormone imbalance. Why did the doctor suggest it? It might not be the cream, but I'd wean off it over a few weeks and see if you feel better.

If you raise progesterone, you might need to raise estriol and estradiol as well (and testosterone).

Could be low cortisol (so adrenaline surges) causing night sweats

Reply
Daffers123

Blimey, I am out of my depth already. You all know so much on here, its fantastic for us newbies. I didnt have any menopausal symptoms, then were over a few years ago so sounds like the cream may have caused the hormonal imbalance.

My cortisol is not right, its high at night/first thing and low during the day (Genova saliva test) so its could be adrenaline surges causing sweats. What on earth can I do about that ?

Any advic very gratefully received.

1 like
Reply
Angel_of_the_North

Something like Ashwaghanda might help your cortisol. It tries to get it back into balance rather than just raising or lowering it. Al little protein at night can help protect against low blood sugar during sleep (which causes might sweats). my cortisol has been much better since I had DHEA prescribed, took up meditation, (the meditationtrust.com do courses all over the country with fees dependent on your income), listened to healing sounds CDs and tried to avoid stress (I also use nutri-adrenal - but all my levels are low). But what works for me might not work for you.

You might have dumped yourself back into (virtual) menopause - this time with a few symptoms. I suspect it'll gradually put itself right with time.

1 like
Reply
Daffers123

Hi Angel

Thanks for all the info. I did a saliva test for adrenals and bought some DHEA but am scared to take it. How did you get a prescription?

I will get ashwagansa as lots of people are mentioning it.

Thanks again for all your trouble and advice

Andrea

Reply
Angel_of_the_North

DHEA is part of my BioHRT.

Reply
Daffers123

Oh I see... more for me to research ! Gosh its all a minefield.

Thanks

A

Reply
deniD

Hi I bought it too and same happened! If you google progesterine cream side effects you will see. It's not as safe as they make out!!!! Too much to write but read bout hiw it's stored etc

1 like
Reply
Daffers123
Daffers123
in reply to deniD

Thanks Deni, I will google as you suggest. Rather glad I stopped it as other members have had some interesting stuff to say, and sounds like I could upset my whole hormone balance by taking it unnecessarily.

Reply
Angel_of_the_North

I had almost the opposite as it wasn't strong enough for me - my menopause symptoms were horrendous - I think my pituitary had just given up signalling the rest of me to make any more hormones at all. But I needed estrogen and DHEA as well.

Reply
mazb

yes, that's the point - it didn't work for you as you needed oestrogen.

Many need progesterone.

Reply
Angel_of_the_North

I actually needed tons more progesterone (and a little estrogen). I am on 100mg progesterone a day. It did help a but not enough to make me able to function normally. I also don't seem to absorb through the skin very well, which is another factor in success or failure of any cream.

Reply

You may also like...