Names of NDT Natural Dessicated (Pig's) Thyroid please and which is the one that is much cheaper ?

[Coastwalker]

I was asked to do a Health survey at a local chemist shop, normally I run a mile from 'Big Brother surveys, but thought I might just gain from it.

I went along to an adjoining room and was interviewed by the Pharmacist.

Questions were asked about how healthy I was, how healthily I ate, how much alcohol I drank, did I smoke,? what medication I was on, all easy questions, though I kept quiet about about how much extra D3 I took to what my Doctor had actually prescribed.

I happened to mention I would rather be on the NDT rather than the Synthetic T4 and explained why, the Pharmacist said they needed to know the names of the NDT's (the Pharmacist had never heard of NDT before.) There were a few names up on the screen, I recognized them, but wasn't sure if they were just the synthetic ones or not 'Armour' and 'Ertha' were up there.

So any NDT names please ?

Pharmacist did mention they would have to be on the list and I said I didn't think NDT's were on the list, but she said if I can give her a name she'll check.

So please could I have all those NDT names please and I will pass them on to the Pharmacist even if it just makes more people aware of them.

Thank You.

[Clutter]

Coast, I'm only aware of Armour, Erfa, NatureThroid, Westthroid Pure, Thyroid-S and Thiroyd but STTM lists several others. The last two are cheaper versions from Thailand.

stopthethyroidmadness.com/a...

[Coastwalker in reply to Clutter]

Thank Q Clutter, Armour and Erfa I remember were up on the computer screen, so I am guessing both must be on the 'allowed ' list.

I see Armour and Erfa have given patients problems when they reformed both of them. Great!

[shaws in reply to Coastwalker]

Armour I believe has been o.k. for a while now and quite a few use it. Erfa has had problems and they said there has been no change of formula but users say their experience differs.

[Coastwalker in reply to shaws]

Thanks Shaws, was thinking of taking Erfa off the list after reading about it as I now take more notice of 'user's rather than 'pusher's if you get my meaning.

[Clutter in reply to Coastwalker]

Coast, reformulations of any meds can cause problems but it doesn't follow that they'll cause you problems. I believe NatureThroid is easily obtainable on prescription in the UK.

[Coastwalker in reply to Clutter]

Thanks again Clutter, has Nature Thyroid caused any problems in the same way as Erfa ?

I spotted Armour and Erfa up on the Pharmacists computer screen, I am guessing they are obtainable and on the 'allowed to have' list, but are they obtainable on prescription and free of charge or are they on that private prescription you have to pay for ? It's a long time since I have heard or read up about it and cannot remember now.

My reasons for wanting to change from T4 to NDT are:-

Cold hands and feet (especially in winter)

also Inner coldness and shivery.

Very dry skin

Hair breaking off

Don't sweat like I did before, (not sure if that causes any harm though.)

Many report they warm up, skin and hair return to normal once they take NDT.

I told the Pharmacist I wanted NDT 'cos it treats the whole of the Thyroid not just T4 to T3. Still can't believe the Pharmacist had not heard of NDT before.

Mind you I went with someone to see a NHS Dietitian last week and the NHS Dietitian said they had not heard about Aspartame in foods and Drinks when we mentioned it as not good stuff to have. Are we having the wool pulled over our eyes, are they not allowed to say or do they not check and research anything new.

[Clutter in reply to Coastwalker]

Coast, I've not seen complaints about NatureThroid but that may be because it's not prescribed as frequently as Armour and Erfa. Your pharmacist should be able to order all of them via IDIS.

Funny you mention the lack of sweating. I don't either even though most other things are resolved. My skin got very hot and slightly sticky/tacky but no sweat.

Not sure if you mean Asparatame isn't good for 'Roidies. I thought it was bad for everyone and I'm shocked if a dietician doesn't know that.

[Coastwalker in reply to Clutter]

Clutter, Thank Q, I have written 'IDIS' down.

My Mum also no longer sweats, she too has Hypo.

Aspartame I meant is not good for anyone and NHS childrens' Dietitian said they did not know that, we too were very surprised, but then again not really.

[Spareribs]

Oh well done you!

There's some info on the main site of which pharmacies to use

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/treatm...

there were German and Danish makes mentioned the other day too....

don't forget the petition

submissions.epetitions.dire...

[Coastwalker in reply to Spareribs]

I was hoping to have them prescribed at a local chemist, maybe my local could put in a request if I ask as they have sourced another eye product they did not stock before.

Thanks for the other stockist list.

I have signed the petition quite a while ago Sparerib and shared it too.

[AForkInTime]

Pharmarama have the cheapest stock of Erfa I have found in the UK - half the price than from other pharmacies (which if you know how much it costs, is a bargain!!). They take prescriptions by post and will do next day delivery for all orders. They're great!

[Coastwalker in reply to AForkInTime]

Thank you AforkinTime, do like your name.

[AForkInTime in reply to Coastwalker]

Ha, thanks! That's my life, taking a new, unexpected fork in my journey due to my crazy health disasters!

[Glynisrose]

Armour, Erfa, Thiroyd. Lloyds is where I get my prescription filled and they are very quick PLUS they keep a stock of some Armour (which I take) at their central warehouse.

Erfa contains fillers such as maize starch which I cannot deal with, I have an intolerance to maize.

[Coastwalker in reply to Glynisrose]

Thank you Glynisrose, are you having to pay for it yourself ?

[Glynisrose]

No I get my prescription from my endo who is now not allowed to treat any new patients with NDT!!

[Coastwalker in reply to Glynisrose]

Really Glenisrose ?, I wonder why that is ? Did your Endo give you a reason why. ?

[Glynisrose]

First off I am not Glenisrose I am Glynisrose, there is a difference! I phoned for a repeat prescription one day to be told by the secretary that he was no longer allowed to prescribe NDT because of the cost, to cut a long story short I contacted everyone I could and arranged a protest, the hospital backed down and said that he could continue to prescribe for current patients but no new ones. The CEO of the hospital contacted me and asked if I wanted help in sorting it out.

All this was because I refused to lower my dose by 1/2 grain!!

[Coastwalker in reply to Glynisrose]

Apologies Glynisrose, yes you are right there is a big difference. Do forgive me ?

That's terrible what your Endo/they did, well done for recruiting everyone for an NDT protest, so it was all down to cost rather than a better medication, don't they want us all to get better if NDT is a much better medication for some of us than T4 alone ?

It is good to spread the word of what is really happening out there, too much gets hidden over or brushed aside. I would love to have been a fly on the wall watching your protest Glynisrose.

[thegemprincess]

in the u.s.- natural dessicated thyroid (i.e.- Armour) is by prescription only. It is covered if you have a thyroid disorder. See a doctor and don't play around. People have varying symptoms on these items. I found Armour worked great for me so far. Don't skimp on your health and follow medical not (pharmacist) advise.

[helvella in reply to thegemprincess]

In the UK desiccated thyroid is by prescription only.

The problem is that few doctors will prescribe it. You acknowledge that that it works well for you. What would you do if you could not find a doctor to prescribe it but knew you could buy your own online?

It would, of course, be very much better if everyone could have a proper discussion with their doctor and get sensibly prescribed with whatever they need.

Our funding mechanism it entirely different to that in the US. There is no concept of "covered" in the sense of an insurance arrangement. (Very few people have private medical care at the regular GP level.)

Rod

[Coastwalker in reply to helvella]

Helvella, if we can get Dessicated Thyroid, would it actually be free of charge if you can get your doctor to prescribe it ?

[helvella in reply to Coastwalker]

It is treated like any other medicine if on a standard NHS prescription form. And as hypo qualifies for exemption it would be without charge.

[Coastwalker in reply to helvella]

Thank you helvella, that is good news.

[thegemprincess in reply to helvella]

Rod, first let's try to get you (in the U.K.) to a proper naturalpath doctor (Integrated Medicine)

I, personally am scared of buying medication online. Too many stories of posioned items.

Look up Dr. Leo Galland. He heads up integrated medicine in USA. Dr Weil is his deciple.

This guru has a site that you type in your country, etc and get a list of reputable doctors. I called him and he answered. What a real human being! He directed me to a proper local physician. Big Pharm wants us all to take synthetic drug that doesn't have the T3 that some of us needs. I was told that people that don't do right on just T4 therapy must either add T3 cytomel (another synthetic drug) or go natural (Armour is one of the Natural Decisscated products. Please tell us all how you made out and list the doctor you find so others in your position can follow suite. I can only tell you I have been 3 yrs miserable on the Synthroid before FINALLY getting relief. You know it works when you feel "nothing" but over 4 wks better spirit and drop 2 lbs. In the US, the motto is GO LOW and GO SLOW. We start at 1/2 pill of 12mcg of Armour for 1 week then go to the full pill for 6 weeks. We get blood tested. If the tsh shows any improvement or stays the same we must go another 6 weeks. Don't be fooled by the dosing. the 12mcg tablet worked 3 times as well as the .25mcg synthroid or levothyroxine. It has t1,t2,t3 which helps for assimilation. If you add COQ10 and B vitamins your energy will return!

I take this liquid add on (by doctors prescription) - its over the counter COQ10 Liquid by Protocol. Amazing gains! We all need the other supplements to make these hormones work. I take full dose of 1 tsp per day. What a turnaround! Please write back soon. We want to hear about your journey. Your thyroid buddie. Margo

[helvella in reply to thegemprincess]

Afraid I couldn't find a site where Dr Leo Galland allows you to type in a country, etc. Any hints or links?

I got somewhat confused by the units in your post. Armour and other desiccated thyroid products are in milligrams. Levothyroxine and liothyronine are usually in micrograms in Europe. The smallest Armour tablet manufactured by Forest is 15 milligrams (approx. a quarter grain). Therefore I am at a bit of a loss to know exactly what you are sugegsting.

I'd like to know how much T1 and T2 is present in Armour and which forms? Depending on precisely which deiodination occurs, the end products could be different and themselves have very different effects.

Rod

[thegemprincess in reply to helvella]

Sorry for the confusion! First, I take Armour by Forest - 15 milligrams (1/4 grain)

Levothyroxine I took was .25 micrograms that gave me heart palps, hair falling out and yellow teeth. Dr Galland said that the ratio of T4 to T3 in Armour is 80:20. He said I should call back with town and country location and he will tell me integrated doc in UK reputable. He no longer has that link. Sorry to mislead you. He heads up a major integrated medical group here in NYC. Please write me where you are so I can get you the correct information. Britian has a college of Integrated Medicine that is also a useful source according to him. Let me know so I can get you this info. I am mortified to hear how you have to fight to get medicines to help you. Thyroid is like insulin, a medicine necessary for proper daily existence. Here in the USA we get treated as patients clinically rather than strictly by the lab results. I really am apalled and will reach back out to Dr Galland for list of docs that may help you all. Please write me where in UK you are? I will call him immediately. Margo

[thegemprincess in reply to helvella]

Hi Again - Rod, the link you have shows 49% prefer Amour over Levothyroxine. I fall in that category. I read all your other threads.!!!

Dr Galland said in the 90's there was issues with Armour. It has since been reformulated and extremely strict overseeing in its compounding. He thinks that alot of us can't rely on T4 to be converted to T3. He says its better for those people and most to get all the T's - from a NDT product like Armour by Forest.

He said YR 2012 had problems with Levothyroxine. He says there are alot of links out there about this issue.

I am sending you a different link in response to those other scientific questions you asked. This is what Dr Galland forwarded me for more comprehensive information. Hope it helps--- rxlist.com/armour-thyroid-d... As you see, I am anxious to learn and have been helped by others on this site including you. Your thyroid buddie - Margo

[thegemprincess in reply to helvella]

is this near you?

Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine

uclh.nhs.uk/ourservices/our... - Similar to Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine

The Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine (RLHIM) is the largest public- sector provider of integrated medicine in Europe. Formerly known as the Royal ...

[thegemprincess in reply to helvella]

is this near you?

Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine

uclh.nhs.uk/ourservices/our... - Similar to Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine

The Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine (RLHIM) is the largest public- sector provider of integrated medicine in Europe. Formerly known as the Royal

[Coastwalker in reply to thegemprincess]

Many Thanks for your Link thegemprincess, I only had a quick look and clicked on Chronic fatigue then Fibromyalgia, similar symptoms to what I had, but could see no mention or link to Thyroids or thyroid medication. (Though it might be hidden in the small print) My own personal CFS and Fibro symptoms were cured by taking the optimum dose of T4. and within two days of upping my dose all my Fibro and CFS dropped away. Even I could not believe how easy it happened.

I now feel far too OK now and just need the NDT stuff so I can get my dry skin, hair, coldness, sweating and my hurting eyes back to normality.

Thanks again.

[Coastwalker in reply to thegemprincess]

Hi thegemprincess, unfortunately we not so lucky over here in UK, many of us would love to be on NDT, but it is more often than not denied to us and we are given the Synthetic version T4, T3 or both together. Many of us who have thyroid symptoms miss out because even though we are showing signs and symptoms of Thyroid problems our bloods tests show we are still 'within range' so to the medics we are classed as perfectly normal.

Many of us have to really fight to get even T4/T3 or both then if we are lucky to get it we have to fight again to get ourselves up to the correct dose we know we need, some Doctors are scared to put up our doses incase we go Hyper, my Doctor tried to put my dose down due to my low TSH (blood test) just as I was feeling normal again.

It ain't easy over here thegemprincess, in US is it the same also ?

I have heard your blood ranges might be wider over in US than in UK ? so maybe more thyroid patients are picked up in US as needing treatment, my own sister has been cast aside, she has all hypothyroid symptoms, same as I did and same as my Mum, but her Doctor says she is OK still, can't believe it.

I often look to US medical information websites as they seem to be years ahead of us for health knowledge.

[thegemprincess in reply to Coastwalker]

our TSH ranges of normal are .3 to 5. I was 8 before given medication.

Are you near this?

is this near you?

Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine

uclh.nhs.uk/ourservices/our... - Similar to Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine

The Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine (RLHIM) is the largest public- sector provider of integrated medicine in Europe. Formerly known as the Royal

[Coastwalker in reply to thegemprincess]

My last TSH was .01 (0.2-4.5) looks very low, but I feel normal, not hyper.