T3 and beta blockers??

Hi Everyone, I previously posted I have been ill for 6 months, endo started me on 25mg of levo and upped it to 50mg, but my blood pressure for 6 months has soared with chronic palpitations. He then added T3 10mg per day but palpitations still continued so on advise on the site I stopped taking levo and doubled my T3 to 20mg, and stopped the levo, but last few weeks Im crashing again and falling asleep at 9.30am even after 10 hours sleep so added 25mg levo back to my 20mg of T3to try and eleviate the chronic tiredness. I saw him the other day and he took me off levo completely and told me to take another 10mg of T3 in the afternoon and then also added 80mg of beta blockers propanaol as he was so concerned about my blood pressure. My question is this..I am still crashing, Im sleeping every afternoon the extra Y3 although only been a few days has done nothing and I have also read that beta blockers especially the one I am on can wipe out thyroid meds...god Im so depressed, Im cancelling seeing friends, Ive not been at work for 4 months..managed to bully my GP into getting a referral to Guys hyroid clinic but not til September..what do I do??..i feel im now back to square one ontop of which I woke up yesterday with dearing pains in my rib cage left side radiating into my back with terrible burning in my mouth and upset tummy in the monring, same today..took antiacid tablet and ibroprofen seems to have helped..feel like im just falling apart...please help..you are the people I feel i can turn to x thank you x

31 Replies

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  • Carlie, if you post your recent thyroid results with the lab ref ranges (the figures in brackets after the result) it will help members comment/advise.

  • Hi Cluter, T3 4.3 (3.5-6.5) is this ok???..TSH 0.83 (0.35-5.50) was 2.60..T4 14.5 (10.3-22.7), yet AGAIN the crappy lab has NOT done antibodies and have refused to do them.

  • Carlie, don't worry about the antibody test. 90% of primary hypothyroidism in the UK is caused by Hashimoto's so you might as well assume you have it and try eliminating gluten for a couple of months to see if you feel any health benefits.

    Your FT3 is very low in range so you may not be on enough medication. You could try another 10mcg 2/3 hours prior to your afternoon crash to see whether it helps see you through. The dose you take today will be utilised at a cellular level 48/72 hours later but it can take more than a couple of weeks to 'feel' the T3 working. An initial feeling of improvement followed by a feeling you're falling back can be a sign that you need to increase your T3.

  • What brand of Levo are you taking? Many people have complained of palpitations on Mercury Pharma. I thought I was ok but have come to think that it's making me poorly too.

    It's a bit difficult to getT3 dose stable, but worth it in the end. Sometimes you have to follow your instinct dose wise. Good luck.

  • I don't know which one I was on as I have thrown the packet away now since being told to come off them, but feel I need that boost again from something other than T3 or will taking a higher dose of T3 stop the chronic sleeps Im having throughout the day? Feel like my life has come to a stop as I have no energy even to socialise..

  • Levo gave me severe palpitations no matter what one- I had to call the ambulance several times even at work. I was constantly unwell, even with beta-blockers.

    You are right beta-blockers interfere with levo:-

    Drug Interaction Classification

    The classifications below are a guideline only. The relevance of a particular drug interaction to a specific patient is difficult to determine using this tool alone given the large number of variables that may apply.

    Major Highly clinically significant. Avoid combinations; the risk of the interaction outweighs the benefit.

    Moderate:Moderately clinically significant. Usually avoid combinations; use it only under special circumstances.

    Minor Minimally clinically significant. Minimize risk; assess risk and consider an alternative drug, take steps to circumvent the interaction risk and/or institute a monitoring plan.

    drugs.com/drug-interactions...

    T3 calmed everything down and I am fortunate to feel well now. You may need an increase your T3.

    This is a statement on Cynomel T3:-

    NO COMMON SIDE EFFECTS HAVE BEEN REPORTED with the proper use of this medicine." (Medi-Span, Inc.: Database Version 97.2. Data © 1997.)

    You may not be on enough T3 and some people have a resistance to thyroid hormones and need a bigger dose than normal and I'll put a link below. Read from November 9, 2005:-

    web.archive.org/web/2010103...

    An excerpt:-

    Our treatment results have forced us to a firm conclusion: For most fibromyalgia patients with thyroid hormone resistance, using plain T3 (as part of comprehensive metabolic rehab) is the only route to recovery. With the proper use of plain T3, 75% to 85% of these patients permanently recover. It will be tragic indeed if, despite our research findings, some resistance patients are blocked from taking this route to recovery by a well-intended but false idea that plain T3 is "a very bumpy road" to travel.

    You go by how you are feeling and adjust accordingly not by the TSH.

  • Thank you shaws for your informative reply, I couldnt access the web.archive link though, last night i experience the worst sleep apnea, think its gut related, until 4.00am , nearly called an ambulance as i live on my own asnd its terrifying, my heart was racing and blood felt like it was curdlingaround my body i know that sounds starange but it was so frightening so on all you lovely peoples advise i have called my endo's sec this morning and told them i want to come off the propanolol..is there any other drug you would recommend for blood pressure as im so concerned about waiting another six months to see if the higher dose of T3 will do the trick and lower it..terrified of a risk of stoke or heart attack..by the way blood pressure was always normal/lowish before i got ill in feb of this year..thank you in advance x

  • I know exactly how you feel re fast heart rates. I have had umpteen investigations and nothing wrong with heart, so it had to be medication.

    Re you thinking fast heart rate may be connected to stomach. I read recently something similar and a hint was to raise your bed-head by about 6 inches which may work for you. Your head to be higher than feet. Also to make sure food is digested before going to bed. This is a similar excerpt:-

    If it's only at night, suspect either sleep apnea or acid reflux. A sleep study would be a good idea. My sleep study didn't find any apnea or fast heart rate (no episode that night), but it did find "periodic limb movement disorder" (restless legs). I now take magnesium for it and am sleeping much better.

    This leaves the heart stuff as being acid reflux which I have no other symptoms of (no burning etc.). To control it, I sleep on a wedge pillow and also avoid laying down after eating for about an hour until things are well digested. This works most of the time

    forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...

    articles.mercola.com/sites/...

    stopthethyroidmadness.com/s...

  • Hell Shaws, thank you for coming back to me:)..I think there is a connection..i did lay straight down after dinner last night so dont think my food was digested properly then i was up researching beta blockers etc..from 1.00am until 4.00am as i was dozing off it felt like my lungs had forgotten to take in air and i woke up gasping for hours, its very frigtening i have had this before and the pain on left side of ribs was terribly..i almost called an ambulance as i live on my own now and its very scarey in the middle of the night to have this on your own..this morning i just keep belching (sorry) like indigestion..and midline tummy feels hard and sensitive..its just all confusing when you are trying to regulate meds for thyroid, then the problem with beta blockers due to high blood pressure, now this on top..too many issues to sort out..i woke this morning in tears..i said to mother im just with all this. i cannot go on like this anymore..i just know where to start, even the hospital have joked that i need a rewards card as im seeing a dermatolgist through skin problems since being on levo (im now off that past few weeks)..endo, now i fear i have gut issues with this sleep apnea..on top of which im then advised it could be adrenals and the tests are £ amount!!...sorry to rant but ive had enough now x

  • I think you are entitled to say you've had enough. We really don't expect to join forums because the medical profession are failing us. We can join, of course, for support but so many of us need information on how to try to recover our health. It's as if we are studying to get a Higher Certificate as we have to read so many things . Luckily most of the support comes from members who have already been through the awful experience and most feel as if they have been hung out to dry what with dismissive/surly 'experts' etc. and unhelpful doctors.

    I am sure you will now begin, slowly to get your health back. One step at a time. At least your Endo is prescribing T3.

    I no longer eat a meal after 7 p.m. and always take a Betaine tablet (especially with protein).

  • Thank you shaws you are so right in everything you just said and goodness it helps no end for information from people who have been there etc..if it was just my thyroid thats bad enough, but it just seems to have triggered so many other things off too you just dont know where to start..i dont know how im supposed to go back to work and i need to desperately when a situation last night occured when i had no sleep due to this leaky gut/sleep apnea scenario..god it was terrifying..only happens at night too...all i seem to do is look up beta blockers, t3, t4, adrenals now have been thrown into the equation, heart problems, leaky gut,sleep apnea, hig blood pressure, oh and hives and skin allergies where im covered all over..never had skin allergies before all this..im thinking since i hit the age of 51 its all gone downhill!!..i have just looked up the betaine supplement you mentioned..how would i know if i have low rather than high stomach acid??..this sounds very interesting and def beats taking stomach acid pills and gaviscon..thank you ever so much once again x

  • If, you click on the stopthethyroidmadness it sets it out for us.

    stopthethyroidmadness.com/s...

    If we are hypo - everything slows down, including digestion. This is a great link from a doctor (please send him to the UK).

    drhyman.com/blog/2010/04/20...

    Some Excerpts: It is the master metabolism hormone that controls the function and activity of almost every organ and cell in your body — so when it is sluggish or slow, everything slows down.

    But there is good news …

    and - I love :-

    Well, you can’t just be a little bit pregnant, but you can be just a little bit hypothyroid.

    And it can have a dramatic effect on the quality of your life.

    Yet most doctors don’t view it that way.

  • also i ate around 7.30pm last night and had salad but 2 large bits of protein with it..and then my god did i suffer last night...so im thinking you may have hit on something..

  • This is a link which tells us if our stomachs are inflamed which vegetables can irritate and the ones that don't. I never knew this before:-

    Vegetables (as well as some fruits) are often high in insoluble fiber. While soluble fiber can be soothing for the gut, consuming large amounts of insoluble fiber when your gut is inflamed is a little bit like rubbing a wire brush against an open wound. Ouch.

    chriskresser.com/got-digest...

  • Shaws you really are such a brilliant source of infomation..:)..thank you..im going to start eliminating I think..have to say just had the paramedics leave my house as heart racing all day, done ecg all ok..thank god, but have high blood pressure and palpitations, havent taken beta blockers tonight going to chase endo's secretary tomorrow as she never called me back!!..have not fallen asleep for past few days since T3 was upped to 30mg now need to sort out gut issues and heart..on your article you posted it also states about using acv which I bought some time ago so going to start on that again this time with my vit c drinks..thanks so much shaws.bless you x

  • I'm sorry you've not slept well but you cannot when you are anxious and have all these problems.

    I also use ACV at times but if you decide to use some tablets it has to be Betaine with Pepsin as these are two essential acids the stomach needs. This is a good and helpful link.

    empoweredsustenance.com/hea...

  • Hopefully this works. I apologise if I've overloaded you. Your head will be spinning.:-

    web.archive.org/web/2010103...

    Dr Skinner didn't believe too much in blood tests because he prescribed on clinical symptoms and said that the adrenals will sort themselves out if properly medicated.

  • This is what I found about blood pressure and levo. There have been a few posts on here asking a similar question. Excerpt

    Hi

    1. I have high blood pressure as well as hypothyroidism however the BP was diagnosed before I went on thyroxine. What may be of interest is that since I have been on thyroid medication the BP has gone up and up and now I take 3 different drugs for BP. I have made many lifestyle changes to reduce the BP but with no improvement.

    patient.co.uk/forums/discus...

  • You need an adrenal test. Clearly that is driving all this. You must have adrenal fatigue and this needs to be treated before you can get anywhere with the thyroid. Most docs have no clue what this means. Check out adrenal fatigue on Stop the Thyroid Madness.com and also look at Dr. Wilson's book, "Adrenal Fatigue, the 21st Century Disease". You need to go to a "functional practitioner" or "Integrative Physician" who will test your adrenals to see where your cortisol and DHEA levels are at. This is the beginning of a long journey to recovery but...it is essential to treat this, which will help all the other issues you have written about. Check out these links: thyroid.about.com/cs/endocr...

    adrenalfatigue.org/what-is-...

    Good luck, these links will explain much more. :-)

  • Hi MSC56 I had a cortisol check done a few months ago and results were 248 ref range 140-690 nmol/L test taken at 11.30 am, I cant remember being told I should have fasted for this test although upon reading up on it it seems you should. Also if I do have to go onto another tablet for blood pressure rather than beta blockers what should I go on?..many thaks everyone for all your kind advice as usual xx

  • This is a blood test...that is not enough to determine adrenal fatigue, you need a SPIT test which Genova does...see (Google) Genova Labs here in the UK. I am sure this is right for you...:-) The adrenals are very much associated with any thyroid issue and since they all work together when one is out of sorts, so are the rest. At "Stop the Thyroid Madness", by Janie Bowthorpe, which I urge you (anyone!) to get that book and read it...you will see exactly what the issues are and how to fix, correct, go to the right doctor for. This or Dr. Barry Durrant-Peatfield's book, "Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy" ...no better advice than reading these books as they tell the WHOLE story and give the right advice to get well...each person is unique, this is also delt with of course in these books and anyone who has a Thyroid issue must get a spit adrenal test and follow up with treatment as this will ensure your body is working right. The blood test is what a GP would do and they have not a clue about the spit tests.

  • Many thanks for your reply :)..major problem as I have been off work now for such a long time with all this and only part time at that, but since Im on min wage, im not even earning enough for SSP so paying for these tests at the moment will be extremely difficult as I see they are more than I can afford right now..:( x

  • The test when I took it last October was £75. which included my integrative physician's assessment of it and what to do. In other words, you might be able to get it cheaper. You can take the books out of the library, which is FREE with a card. Not to be funny but if we were all rich here, we would all be well! It takes money to get well but the whole point of this forum, INMO is to help each other, show the way forward, correct misbeliefs and misinterpretations of the as so many "regular" doctors just keep making us more ill with their ignorance or their "official stance on this illness" like giving T4 only.........! If you want help..I just gave it to you and remember all of us have been there, one way or another. All the best to you.

  • and I have spent what money i did have going to see a private endo! which has got me nowhere!!..£75 is alot of money to me and even worse when you dont have any now to spare..so i thank you for your advice like everyone on here, but it seems getting help so you say..costs money!! not easy when its not there..best to you too

  • Carlie, ask your pharmacist whether there are alternative blood pressure medicines and you can research them before speaking to your GP. Your GP can contact your endo to discuss if s/he doesn't want to interfere with the endo's treatment.

  • Beta-blockers are what you are given if you are hyper, so they'll most likely make you feel worse if you are hypo. The cardio I went to see about palpitations told me that, and advised me not to take beta-blockers (also because I am asthmatic and they make asthma worse). Meditation and optimum medication are usually effective at getting rid of palpitations - meditation has also been shown to help with high blood pressure, as have breathing exercises - and they don't interfere with your meds.

  • Hi Angel thank you for your response, I have had very high blood pressure for 6 months now and the doctors are very worried about it which is why they have put me on beta blockers, the more levo i was given the more my pulse was palpitating and blood pressure still going up and up, if i had a choice between the two id rather sleep with no energy than have a stoke or heart attack

  • Carlie, Levothyroxine (T4) may have caused the palpitations and high bp. Have you tried doing without the beta blockers now you're off T4?

  • Hi Clutter, Ive been off T4 for around 6 weeks now had the high blood pressure before they started me on levo when i started feeling ill and its still high since ive come off them, im hoping with proper doses of T3 and once stable i can come off them, im worried about my blood pressure being very high for such a long time now and my heart rate is constantly racing..not good for the heart, and the time it keeps taking with endo's appointments every 2 months and then they add another 25mg of levo..at this rate my blookdpressure if i keep waiting until my levels are right for me could take me years..and that type of pressure on your heart is dangerous obviously

  • Carlie, just to reassure you, the severe palpitations racing and thumping heart I had for 18 months were checked by ECG every few months and no damage occurred. It can take 8 weeks for the Levo to clear your system so hopefully you'll feel better then. Blood pressure may improve when you're optimally medicated on T3.

  • Thak you Clutter, but its also the very high blood pressure for past 7 months now almost that worries me the most..

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