Am after some friendly advice on the effects of beta blockers on thyroid hormones and uptake. I have atrial fibulation as a result of bc treatment. I suffer massively with fatigue which Ive blamed on cancer treatment -been in remission for last 5 years. The standard treatment for A Fib is beta blockers & blood pressure tablets. Ive been on Cardivilol for three years but am slowly getting worse so dose has been getting higher to 25mg. Cardiologist therefore changed it to Bisoprolol -5mg. Had my first dose of that last night. Woke up in night with terrible palpitations and breathless. Not fun & quite scary. This settled after an hour or two. Am just wondering whether the beta blocker could actually be part of the problem. Am awaiting abalation assessment next month. I had a very bad reaction to Proponolol 10years ago when a neurologist plonked me on 160mg -a dose used to treat hypErthyroidism -took me weeks to recover as it screwed up the conversion & uptake of my thyroid hormones.
I am constantly tired, can only do low levels of activtiy and even then struggle to maintain that consistently without days of crashing. Some elements feels a bit like before I was finally diagnosed with hypothyroidism - 14 years ago.
I will get my thyroid hormone levels checked but have been stable on 4 grains of a ndt for over 10years. Vitamin D, B12 etc are all optimal.
Just like to know other opinions of beta blockers & thyroid meds. I do take my thyroid meds well away from any meds or supplements.
Many thanks.....
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waveylines
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I dnt know why but I replied earlier but its disappeared! I have the Part....AFib (early stage of AFib) Id read that Abalation was very effective at that stage......however if I leave it it will progress onto persistant Afib, then permenant Afib.
It can be hard to untangle the different possible causes of severe fatigue when you have a number of them.
Was it chemo or radiotherapy that caused the atrial fibrillation? You may feel much better if the cardiologist goes ahead with ablation.
In the meantime, taking beta blockers may well affect T4-T3 conversion efficiency, but you would have to look online for the risk attached to the one you're taking now. Certainly, propranolol is known to have this effect. I would have a close look at your other cardiac meds too.
It's little appreciated, sometimes even by oncologists, that cancer and its treatment can lead to profound fatigue, as well as other problems. There is so much focus in the profession on achieving certain targets along the treatment path, and then aiming for scans at allotted intervals with their own focus on 'clear' or 'not clear', that attention to the patient's overall wellbeing and ability to lead a normal life can be forgotten.
Thanks Hillwoman. I had all the therapies so hard to know what caused what. 6xFEC-D (chemo), 18x radiotherapy standard but over left breast so heart risks;24x Herceptin known mainly for left ventricle damage but mine healed & of coure the ever extending estrogen blocker (who knows what complete lack of estrogen does to a womans body & heart!!) And then what the effects of combination therapy are on the heart arent as far as I can see discussed.
Yes am hoping abalation will help. And get me off the beta blockers & blood thinners.
The trouble is cardiologist away on hol for three weeks & his secreatary says his replacement is on nights & doesnt have time, GP surgerys receptionist is a rockveiller, wont let me speak to a GP even though 111 have emailed them twice telling them I need a doctor. Constantly told to speak to cardiologist -nothing to do with us she says! The mind boggles as they are prescribing the meds & meant to be seeing to my care inbetween cardiology. Jobsworthy!! Walk in centre wont have access to notes so wont see me, A&E will hold me till GP surgery is open & then send me home telling me to see a GP.
The nhs is currently bound up with flu & potential coronovirus threat & frankly are falling apart. I understand but its scary not having any doctor I can turn to at all let alone one to wave my flag! Wimpy arent I....lol.
You're not wimpy at all! You are really being put through the mill by a system that is supposed to help you.
You are registered with your GP and he/she is prescribing your meds, so the practice is responsible for your healthcare. If the receptionist won't let you make an appointment, email, write or phone the practice manager and threaten a formal complaint. If that doesn't work, your local PALS officer will be able to help.
I rang surgery - again pointed out that 111 had sent them yet another message......different receptionist much nicer. Said I was on list for a call. Doctor had reviewed my case & taken any action necessary......honestly what on earth does that mean???? Wheres the communication/consultation? Think thats just speak for they've covered their backs tbh.
I told the receptionist I am not a medic & I was really ill last night. If Id been allowed a phone call with the doctor yesterday as 111 had requested it couldve been avoided or a plan put in place.
Thanks -a Cardiologist has rang me! Shes taking me off the beta blockers all together & onto a channel blocker....doesnt affect thyroid she said. Shes emailing my surgery so the doctor can see the letter online when they ring. Told me to ring her secretary if I have any more problems & she will contact her & she will sort it. Phew. Fingers crossed...
Thanks Hillwoman. I did when she rang....dont know how much she took it on board as there were no comments about putting it right. No comments about not being on the phone list yesterday. No comments about the lack of response to 111 messages except they dont get them as they go to the other surgery.....well thats allright then eh? Not!! I told her Id been refused access to talk to a GP a week ago when I was first concerned.......told to go to cardiology instead & not bother them......
They were the same when I went through my aggressive bc treatment. Two of their GPs told me dont bother us go to the hospital that to my face when I looked like death warmed up & the oncologist was trying to save me a trip into the city....they are all heart! Excuse the pun!! Clearly they dont do empathy! Hard as nails!
Why do I stay? They let me have ndt on nhs script & allow me to have daily b12 jabs that I self inject.
They sound grotesque! Given what you've said, it might be a good idea to complain directly to PALS, even though you can't afford to change to a different practice. (NDT on prescription and daily B12 shots are a minor miracle - how did you achieve that?!) Also, let your local Healthwatch know about your experience of GP care. They have an online form you can complete.
Had to laugh the nasty receptionist phoned me -politeness itself -to tell me new script has been sent & doctor wants to check my bp next Tuesday.....she had to offer me an appointment!! 😉🤣😂 Couldnt help smiling.
I wont consider the fact that after my horrendous night no doctor wants to see me today to check me out!! Lol....
Got the meds through sheer bloody mindness. Both were a long road but worth it....... To be fair this surgery took me on agreeing to prescribe ndt mainly because I argued it was cheaper than all the other extra meds they would have to prescribe if on levothyroxine..... they agreed. Its all about the dosh.....thats what counts. The B12 took 10 months to get though the GP was amazed by my ongoing improvements as I self injected through that period, the neurologist backed me but wanted me to pay for my own injections.......he said the nhs cant afford to buy B12 and you get it cheaper than the nhs......so I did my begging act and pointed out that Im a pensioner. So he said well alright then like he was doing me a big favour! The outcome was what I wanted so I tried to focus on that & not to be openly offended by him, especially as he wants to use my case in his research on b12.....sigh. One has to be prepared to subjugate oneself sadly.....lol.
I'm really concerned though that an NHS doctor told you to buy essential treatment (the B12) privately. This is unethical and quite possibly contrary to his terms of service. As for saying the NHS can't afford it...What utter nonsense! 😡
I refused an ablation for my Afib because there's no guarantee it will work and it may need to be done multiple times, also the recovery can be long, up to a year is usual and can be worse than the initial problem ! have you joined the AF forum ?
I was on Bisoprolol for a while but it really made me sooooo tired, I was taken off it and not given anything else as I also have bradycardia as well so meds are not an option, I'm going for a pacemaker this week and looking forward to getting back to normality.
I have been on bisoprolol 5mg for about 4 years after starting levothyroxine revealed angina symptoms. I started on a lower dose but had to increase to 5mg before the symptoms went .As a result of the increase I needed to increase the levo dose probably to overcome the conversion issue.I now take levo at night and the bisoprolol in the morning.
Thanks Treepie -its 5mg the cardiologist put me on. But dont want to take it again. Felt like I was dying last night! Pharmacist was worried about me taking it so rang me up.....theyve rang twice! Think Ill ring them this morning -at least theyre interested!!
I took it at night and my ndt I take first thing in the morning so they are well apart BUT if its like Proponlol which made me exceedingly ill its the accumulative effect.....that cause rapid heart rate & an extremely high blood pressure alongside extreme fatigue. I looked grey on it.
Perhaps a smaller dose of Bisoprolol ? I think I started on 1.25 mg.
I had a racing heart after a PET scan following my third chemo session and atrial flutter and sepsis after the fifth. Still get very tired after an hour of light activity 7 months on.
Thanks Treepie -not sure I want to even try it again...lol .i feel better now but its nearly 12 hrs on so its efficacy eill have halfed so you could be right. Has me up all night so am tired! Nothing new there! Haha!😂
Oh noooo - I read it is 1-2weeks recovery after abalation Sucess rate 60% after first go, over 90% after second go -miniscule numbers need more that two lots. Why is the forum saying otherwise then?
Id do almost antyhing to get off the beta blockers that only partly work & make me feel awful. Cant come off them though as my resting heart rate shoots up over 130 per min at rest. That started during chemo five years ago. Took them two years to recognise I had a problem as back then cardiology wasnt interested in cancer patients but now its a recognised major se.
Sorry to hear about the bradycardia -hope the pacemaker sorts you out & gives you a better quality of life. 🤞
You need to read the British Heart Foundation leaflet on ablation, symptons can be the same or increase afterwards and the general advice is to allow a year for the scar tissue to form and only then will you know if it's been a success or not, ablation is about improving quality of life it's not a cure so it can come back anytime.
Personally I wasn't convinced about any of it and my Cardiologist agreed it was hit and miss.
Having said all that negative stuff many people are very happy with the results and are happy to go through it again if needs be.
Well I guess if youve had success with the drugs & are stable on them, feel well, then thats different & in your shoes I probably wouldnt bother either. Everyone is different.
Ive had this over four years and only been stable for a few months at a time. Am getting worse, am exhausted all the time, my QOL is diminished..... because everything is such an effort. I dont even go away on holiday because its too tiring!! So if I can get rid of the thyroid med interactions & reduce the number of drugs, improve my QOL by doing abalation then its win win. All proceedures are a risk & have consequences I should know as I live with them......and actually so are medications no matter what you take..... Life is gamble but we dont like to admit it! Ive read the leaflet and spoken to two cardiology nurses at the Heart Foundation. 6-7 weeks I was told before it starts to kick in.
My cardiologist when I asked him if he thought I was mad to ask to be referred to the abalation team didn't think I was mad at all. As you say some people are very happy with the proceedure & dont mind if it has to be repeated in the future. The cardiology Dept in my hospital are a lead in the uk & considered excellant...so the balance of risk is probably as good as it will get. Course I could just leave it & progress into heart failure instead.
I've been hypothyroid for 3-4 years, initially just levo but on T3 too for over a year.
Following an emergency bypass last September, I've been on low dose aspirin and Bisoprolol, first 1.25mg daily for a week or so and 2.5mg ever since. I take my thyroid pills about 5 a.m., beta-blockers straight after breakfast. Early days still for me but T3 & T4 levels are pretty much unchanged.
Thats really good. Bisoprolol is cardiac selective so the effect on thyroid should be less than other beta blockers. Unfortunately Ive had a bad reaction to it so cardiologist doesnt want me to take it again. I seem to be sensitive to beta blockers.
If the calcium channel blocker doesn't work, there is another beta blocker that they don't offer unless forced to because it's more expensive, called Nebiverol (I think that's the spelling). It's supposed to cause less fatigue so you could ask about that one.
I too have terrible fatigue and am struggling with Afib and hypo. I had a cardioversion a couple of weeks ago, not in persistent Afib as a result but with a higher heart rate and very uneven. It's a crap condition. I was on a little T3 when the Afib went persistent and so of course the cardiologists went ape and told me to stop it. I was only taking 12.5mcg a day. For the first time in years I had got a little more energy back and then had to stop it. No one cares.
No oestrogen will also cause fatigue and depression. Have you read the book Oestrogen Matters by Oncologist Avrum Bluming? It's interesting. He doesn't seem to believe in the blocking of oestrogen.
Awww FancyPants am so so sorry to hear this. Thats rubbish for you. What right had they to take the T3 off you? My other cardiologist before this one tried with my ndt but Im a stroppy old bag usually & fought hard with my endo who works in a seperate county so happy not to collude. Honestly every appointment with him was focused on my thyroid rather than the real problem damage from cancer treatment. The estrogen blocker is a must for me as my tumour was highly driven by estrogen & very aggressive. I darent risk it as the research and Predict shows it lowers reoccurance by 40% ...
I know no oestrogen causes fatigue but the beta blockers on the top have me crawling and dizzy which I never had before. So glad am off them. It will be interesting to see how much the higher heart rate was inflamed by messing with my thyroid conversion with the beta blockers. I know they mean well but the trouble with specialism is that they all tend to have tunnel vision. I feel Ive tried three different beta blockers dont want to try another one tbh. They are not for me. Im technically in Paroxysmal AFib. It all seems trial and error sorting it out as far as I can see.....
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