Thyroid and muscle pain please help

[Shon]

Listening to my doctor my blood count on thyroxine is now fine, my T4 was too high corrected this 6 months ago.

Can anyone help me with lactic acid build up. My whole body is in pain, doing the slightest thing like taking a couple of screws out the wall, just totally wipes me out. The study I have done, tells me this is due to the build up of lactic acid which stops enough oxygen getting to the muscle. Which causes the burning pain I have.

But I am unable to find a solution to this, something to brake down the lactic acid. Does anyone have any ideas on this.

Thanks

[Marz]

Am sorry you are struggling with this pain. I think you are on the right journey with the lactic acid. Of course this is what athletes experience and it quickly returns to normal. ( whatever normal is ! ) I am not a medical person but my own experience has been long and painful. I struggled for years and gave up a demanding career. 14 years ago I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. Nothing much happened although I did go to India for Ayurvedic Treatment after my Mum died....when I was feeling really poorly.

Then in 2005 I retired to Crete and my Thyroid was tested due to a funny heartbeat. I was diagnosed with Hashimotos. I started on T4 - then a T4/T3 combo and am now T3 only. The improvement has been so comforting and at almost 68 I am feeling better than ever. I also attribute my recovery to things learnt on this forum - VitD B12 etc. which is also part of the puzzle in my case....everything was LOW ! We are all so different. After many years on T4 my FT3 result was always on the floor - so conversion was a problem.....often the case with Hashimotos....

Do you have the blood results that the Doc said were fine ? Was it the TSH FT4 and FT3 ? Have you had your anti-bodies tested ?

Sorry lots of questions - only trying to help...

[Marz in reply to Marz]

Ooops - sorry. Have just read your Profile - should have done that first - and I see you have been suffering with Graves. Apologies. Am not knowledgeable about Graves - and I am sure others will be along to help. Some of my reply is relevant but not all.... Do hope you soon feel better....

[sarahstevenson]

Mmmm I am definitely only beginning to try to sort this out - a problem for both my son and myself - acupuncture has been helpful in "shifting" it although not long lasting and sometimes it seems to"migrate somewhere else. Like you I thought of it as a lactic acid build up and that may be partly true.The physio did say there can be muscle scarring which impeddes the drainage of lactoc acid in chronic patients. I am now trying kinesiology as an approach and yay some leg muscle pain significantly reduced - the practitioner said it's due to the lymph glands in the thigh which are linked to the large bowel - she worked on some acupressure points and I am trying supplements magnesium, bio iron swapped from NHS Ferrous Gluconate, Krill oil, probiotics etc. I am also trying to be as gluten free as I can . . . . enhancing my kitchen messing skills no end!!!! Izabella Wentz Hashimoto's Root Cause was Book and online and facebook helpful in making me rethink to Autoimmune treatments _ I dont know if this would help you with Graves? Might be worth a look. PS I am on T3 only.

[Shon in reply to sarahstevenson]

I have tried to get T3 but my doctor won't give it to me, I got the endo involved and they wrote back to me refusing. Saying there is no proof of benefit. Same old story. They are telling me that I am boarder line diabetic. I believe it is the thyroxine pushing up my Gloucoes levels, making me present as diabetic. So my idea was reduce T4 and add T3. But no joy.

Oh yeah.... And not forgetting my doctor trying to get me on anti depressants, there a difference between being fed up to being depressed. And now I am so fed up I don't even bother to go she them anymore.

[Marz in reply to Shon]

OK so your TSH is fine and your FT4 was high. What was your FT3 ? Was it low - is that why you wanted to try it ?

[Shon in reply to Marz]

Hi, missed placed my last blood test, yes my TSH was ok T4 was on the high side, and my doctor said T3 was in range. She asked me to drop my thyroxine dose, I agreed to Half a tab.

I want to try T3 to help me feel better, get the strength back in my muscles. And I was hoping this would help my sugar levels to return to normal. You see I read that thyroxine when lifting the T4 up, can cause sugar levels to rise. And therefore make me present as boarder line diabetic.

[Hennerton in reply to Shon]

Did your problems with lactic acid build up only start after you reduced T4 dose? My guess is you are on too low a dose now. You need to get latest blood results and post here. Never believe a doctor when they say you are normal. Normal for whom? It is crazy the way they lump us together. I suffered years of muscle pain after TT for Graves and a so called "normal" blood test, every time I said how ill I felt. Eventually I started to investigate the lie of "normal". Now take a much higher dose, T4, T3 and have recently added some NDT. Aching has gone, my nails are growing at last and I am warm all over. Do not look any further. I am sure if you sort out your dose all the other issues will tend to go away. I expect your T4 was too high, because you are not converting properly and your T3 if you had it done, (which I doubt), was low. It seems to be a typical Graves problem.

[wsenior in reply to Shon]

Yeah, it is noted that many Hypothyroid patients have some form of Insulin Resistance. It is possible that T4 replacement therapy can exhaust our muscle glycogen stores. Would explain why I feel my muscles are running on empty, like there are shards of glass in them. I too have this feeling and I used to do super intense exercise 5+ days per week. I tried T4-alone, T4+T3, and T3-alone. T3 alone I felt better with my other symptoms (fatigue, foggy brain, weight gain), but the muscle stiffness, pain, excessive soreness, and cramps never got better. I'm now trying high level of T4 to see if I was on too low of a dose before. I'm guessing it will not work either. It might be a glucose-insulin-energy-ATP issue, and so I'm not sure what to try next. Here is an interesting article. I've been taking Creatine Monohydrate for about 2-weeks now but don't feel any different yet. Still intense muscle pain after doing any type of exercise. Check it out.

academic.oup.com/painmedici...

Thanks,

Walter

[sarahstevenson in reply to Shon]

Hi -

Another real help has been magnesium baths wonderful either as Epsom Salts or Magnesium Flakes! I also make my own Magnesium oil from the flakes - good for a massage when you can't be bothered to get wet in a bath!

It's been a long journey to have T3 and it's not finished yet. I bought my own, kept lots of records, changed endo and GP , went to see new endo armed with my records, refused her expectation that I would try levo alone again, but agreed with her to try combining the 2 for a while, several months later of decreasing Levo and increasing Lio, whilst continuing with record keeping I managed to go Lio only - it seems I really dont convert. Then began the batch problems with yellow cards and phone calls to mediicines info at the hospital. Now I am on Sanofi Aventis Cynomel on a named patient basis through the NHS. Think my GP likes the fact it is 10x cheaper than the NHS cynomel.

Re antidepressants the kinesiologist recommended Bach Gorse remedy for me - and yay considering how sceptical I was amazing lightening of heart! Dorling Kindersley have a helpful Bach remedy book guide which might help identufy a remedy for you.As you say there is a big difference between fed up even profoundly so due to circumstances and depression. Also Antid's often have iodine ingredients not a good answer for thyroid patients.

I am 7 years into my quest and still working at it. Trying hard to sort our any vitamin and mineral issues at the moment.

Hope things improve for you soon.

[Hidden in reply to Shon]

I'm sure most of us have been "accused" by our GPs of being depressed, and perhaps many of us are, or have been; but broadly there's two sorts of depression: reactive/situational depression which is temporary (albeit possibly long-term if the situation persists), resulting from a situation or events in our life; whereas clinical depression is often chemical because the brain doesn't have the correct chemical balance . So even if we have (seemingly) a wonderful life, we can be clinically depressed; but being long-term under-treated for a thyroid condition, and berated by Drs as being one of the worried-well, most definitely can bring on reactive depression. But if the situation is removed i.e. if we become optimally-treated, lo and behold, any reactive depression disappears because the cause of it has gone. Why GPs don't understand this is beyond me. ;-(

[Hidden]

Interesting. After you mentioned the link between hypothyroidism and diabetes I went searching for more info. I've often seen here that if you have one autoimmune illness, you often get another, e.g., hypothyroidism and type 2 diabetes. But I'd never really considered that there was another link - and the link between insulin resistance and hypothyroidism is a strong one. See this: stopthethyroidmadness.com/2...

No wonder people with hypothyroidism start to do better on gluten free diets. Looks like it's not only the reduction of gluten that helps - it might be the reduction of carbs full stop.

[Shon in reply to Hidden]

Thanks lily may, I have argued this with my doctor, but they dismiss it. I believe that a high t4 count increases Gloucoes, so that is why I wanted to reduce T4 and take a little t3. But they won't let me have it.

[Marz in reply to Shon]

Time to start reading and taking control of your own health. Try to find your last results and post in another post. It sounds as if your doctor is keeping you poorly. Do not accept NORMAL - what is normal ? Diabetes is also Endocrine - so when one bit is faulty then everything goes haywire. think plug sockets and electrical circuits !

[helvella in reply to Shon]

Specific warning in the MP Liothyronine SPC:

Liothyronine sodium treatment may result in an increase in insulin or anti-diabetic drug requirements. Care is required for patients with diabetes mellitus and diabetes insipidus.

medicines.org.uk/emc/medici...

So T3 may not be any better than T4 in this regard and might be worse.

Rod