What is the highest TSH anyone has lowered naturally and kept down? Basal temp better too!

[storm]

Hopefully people won't think I am totally mad, as a presently unmedicated (ie not taking Levo etc) I am really torn between starting meds and still reading and I know some of you I have communicated with, that are trying the natural way to improve hypothyroidism. I did have TPOabs of approx 200, but somewhere it states Hashi is diagnosed only when into the 1000s....hmmm, well anyway. I am obviously scared at having a whopping TSH >100, low T4, normal T3....a year ago I had nearly in range TSH 8 and normal T4 13 and normal T3 5....six months before that I had high TSH 77, low T4, low T3........ I know it might swing up and down, but at the moment I am not sure if I have overdone supplements, albeit normal strength ones and not all the time....but knowing Iodine and selenium need to be careful with...wonder if my TSH has gone sky high from starting to ermmm mend the thyroid and if it might go back to near normal.

confused?...........

Well you see my basal temps have been much better than last year or the year before, yet TSH is at it's worse... >100 (scary). In fact some of my basals have been 36.8 whereas I had originally been 32....then 34.... then 35 invariably.....

I don't want further damage, but as usual knowing what to do is so hard.

Wonder about glutathione repair..... I have been doing selenium and vit c....may need to add more, but do I have time to keep trying to repair, without taking Levo etc?

Question is more about having had signs of improvement.....yet once again dangerous TSH?

[helvella Administrator]

Would like to be sure that you appreciate the damage from being hypothyroid doesn't simply repair the moment your thyroid hormone levels return to sensible levels (howsoever that occurs)? The damage of hypothyroidism seems to be cumulative and, quite possibly, at least some is unrepairable.

I don't know where you got the information that Hashimoto's is only diagnosed at some very high level. As soon as the antibody level(s) rise above the local lab's negative/positive level, you could be diagnosed. It is possible that levels might reduce or that they could have been in the positive range for other reasons (e.g. thyroid surgery often results in significant antibody levels for some time). Really the antibodies are only indicative of Hashimoto's and, ideally, more effort would be made to investigate further. (There have been suggestions that some very fancy ultrasound scan analysis could help a lot.)

I also note no mention of vitamin B12, folates, iron/ferritin, vitamin D.

Rod

[storm]

Hiya, many thanks for replying.

I started out, like many no doubt....some signs, hormonal imbalance yet didn't show up on tests but I was given a form of hormone replacement Norethisterone in 2008. Thyroid all normal via tests at the time, then diagnosed 2011, they only knew hypothyroid. 2012 found antibodies, but at the time TSH went from 77 down to 8 and T4 was in range at 13 and T3 in range about 5, so this was when I first got a bit iffy as to whether I could mend the problem. I started trying to eat healthy, rest lots (adrenals in mind after years of stress, a fair amount of time on poor diet)......I did lots of reading (confusing as it is) started taking basic supplements and brazil nuts, not every day.... I slackened off but took some here and there, cut processed food out etc and now a year later just had results of TSH 100, T4 5 T3 in range 4.

I was very anti med..... just in case it was poor diet and stress and reversible (against the odds) this decision was when TSH had dramatically dropped to 8, which I know isn't 0.5 or whatever...but it was a good drop and as T4 and T3 were in range.... I kind of thought don't take Levo...so you see now I am in a right pickle with the latest results and may need to give in and take Levo but just wondering why my basal temps and most of day are heading towards normal yet the TSH is scary at 100, T3 is in range....but T4 lower, so my logic is I've done something either with diet/supplements like maybe too much selenium, so maybe converting, but just not making enough T4...hence the TSH....

I know TSH basically burns through to the cells...does damage, but not sure if I might have healed some of the damage or not. The docs aren't helpful and it is a budget thing with me re. further tests. I have asked for them all on NHS to no avail. B12, folate, ferritin normal, they refused to do Vit D. They say my cortisol is a sign adrenals are ok. It was just a high in range morning one last year mind. 695 out of 700 (top of range). I've not afforded a 24hr adrenal test yet.

I've been going round in circles as you hear take iodine and selenium...then you hear don't. All I know is I was doing well this time last year and strange that body temp is better, yet scores worse.

I wondered if it might be a lack of amino acids...or protein as not sure how much is needed, you'd think not a lot...for tyrosine etc.

I don't recall where I read about the Hashi being much higher antibodies...it is in that contradictory reading on web, but the docs only ever put down hypothryroid, it was me telling them i have auto immune. Several docs all seem confused over this, but said no to endo too.

[greygoose in reply to storm]

TSH burns through to the cells? Where did you get that? TSH - Thyroid Stimulating Hormone - that's all it does, stimulates the thyroid. I've never heard of it burning and causing damage. I've never heard of any hormone doing that.

I would imagine that your TSH has been swinging about because you have Hashi's, and that's how it works. Eventually it will destroy your thyroid entirely. Don't you think you might possibly be better off starting levo now and cutting your losses, so to speak. It's only a hormone, after all, not a mind-bending drug.

Hugs, Grey

[storm in reply to greygoose]

Hi and thanks Grey

It was a lot of reading and likely an american doc's site....and there are lots of them. I understand that once damaged, the H2o2 circulating (from TSH) can try activing within the damage cells/wall of (I'm not that great here), I think it tries to deinonise iodine inside the cells which causes bigger probs. So originally whilst we just say antibodies attack tissue, I now read that it is the H2o2 doing the advanced progressive damage....oxidation? ROS? Free radical type of thing. This is where they say antioxidants at cellular level or intercellular..whichever can repair some damage....in some info on internet it says glutathione is what is lacking in people with hypo/hashi. Glutathione allegedly heals tissue....to a degree anyway, but you can't just take glutathione and the precursors have to be joint effort of certain aminos....to get enough of it, supplements in certain unison to be used....but then you read that and they have other side effects....even dampening down the thyroid hormone manufacture....or alternatively over stimulating, so that you get surges of detoxing of metals etc causing effect in the body. So whilst it sounds wonderful....lack of knowledge puts that questionmark on it once again. Selenium is a similar explanation...as selenium is needed and at my basic understanding, you read selenium might reverse antibodies....hmmmm. These docs think it is a lack in the body of either glutathione or the hormone making...might be diet, stress using up hormones too quick, so more is needed, then TSH (H2o2) 'burns' the receptor...or whatever they like to call it, I'd have to recheck....very tired, lol. H2o2 is hydrogen peroxide and I think I read when an atom is removed....in detox, it turns to water...anyway....you can check online, if you feel you wish

The fact I almost recovered once, did give me too much hope..... now I am very scared and I am close to taking Levo...but I have this block stopping me....one I must be depressed and don't know it....to deal with life on meds, it pains me...but also I have never been good at taking things...the only reason I am looking at supplements is desperation...but actually crossed most suggestions of herbs etc off my list...as side effects sound bad!

Maybe it has a slim chance of working if Levo started and not too much damage done, so might heal a little.....but there aren't many reports or any...here, that I have seen. The very foods suggested that have small parts of needed ingredients are the ones to be careful of ie goitregens....and it says supplement required first....like N Acetyl Cysteine.... Lglutamine, Alpha Lipoic Acid....all nasty sounding side effects...yet meant to raise or recirculate glutathione as both actions required.

I need to hurry up and decide....but internet makes it sound so close to a cure, I don't believe everything, but read so many different views....some are saying the same thing. Others claim mega iodine loading to detox bromine, flouride, chlorine etc....I can tie in with Bromine/ide as I suddenly sprung up all these cherry angiomas, looked that up and suggested bromide toxin....hmmmm!

If I start Levo and get past the first few...maybe I'll be more confident, although I may be one that it doesnt' like