Which antibiotic was prescribed for bacterial overgrowth / dysbiosis / SIBO / IMO and did it have lasting effects?

[Meleber]

Hi, I've almost finished my 28 day course of antibiotics (rifaximin) but without a noticeable positive effect on my symptoms till now. There are some alternatives to try (neomycin, augmentin, ciprofloxacin, metronidazole , norfloxacin, etc.) and I am curious which one you have had and if it had lasting effects, did it really improve your symptoms.

[Hidden]

My gp gave me 2 week course of doxycycline that got rid of it but 2 years later have problems again no way near as bad as before tho x

[Meleber in reply to Hidden]

I read that's a tetracycline. I have had this 30 years ago for other health issues but after the course ended symptoms reocurred. Same happened to me when I needed augmentin because of Weil's disease. During the treatment everything was well, I never had felt better, but when no longer taking this antibiotic symptoms got pretty worse again and I never recovered. I now know that is related to my dysfunctional digestive tract/gut. Maybe the courses of penicillin I had when I was a toddler ruined my intestinal flora. Also wasn't breastfed and my mother has bowel problems since here childhood.

"Antibiotics, Pediatric Dysbiosis, and Disease"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Hidden in reply to Meleber]

Not sure whether what I had was related to my dysfunctional gallbladder full of stones not releasing enough bile , I will see when it’s removed 🤣x

[Hidden in reply to Meleber]

Is leaky gut the same as sibo ? I’m baffled x

[b1b1b1]

I took Rifaxamin for 14 days. At the end of that time I also did not feel much better. My gastro, however sent me to a medical dietician. She gave me a very very strict Fodmap diet. I had actually never heard of a few of the items on this diet (ie. coconut oil, protein powder, bread ordered from Chicago, etc.). After 24 hours on the diet, the improvement was dramatic.

I have stayed on it with a little loosening up directed by her. My problem now, is that I must take dental antibiotics prior to a cleaning. I did this about 10 days ago and It made my GI tract much worse. My Gastro says to have another SIBO test just to make sure, but he thinks it may be Dysbiosis. The dietician says to go back to the very strict original diet for the Dysbiosis. I will talk to her next week.

[Liz1234ty]

Hi - I tried a 2 week course of Rifaximin that really helped but within a few months (despite low Fodmap diet and prokinetic) my symptoms returned and so I tried Rifaximin with Neomycin for 2 weeks but that had no effect and so after messing around with herbal remedies I tried metronidazole for 2 weeks. Despite positive SIBO test results I have not had any long term benefit from antibiotics or herbals. I don't say this to put you off as it is worth trying and nothing made me worse (other than for the duration of the treatment) but for me I think SIBO is either a red herring or something unknown is preventing the treatment working.

There is also something odd about the concept of SIBO - like why more positive results with higher bacterial load don't consistently and statistically correlate to worse symptoms or why different bacterial strains don't heavily correspond to different symptoms.

[b1b1b1 in reply to Liz1234ty]

Yes, I agree. The whole thing is strange.

[Maureen1958 in reply to b1b1b1]

See my reply to Liz1234ty above!

[Maureen1958 in reply to Liz1234ty]

That's probably because there is no such thing as SIBO apart from being a good way of making money for so called Health Professionals!

[Liz1234ty in reply to Maureen1958]

Hi Maureen1958 - you may well be right but I wonder if SIBO does exist for some people as there are a number of accounts in both clinical studies and on-line of people being "cured" after a course of treatment. The view of my gastro is that the numbers of people with SIBO have been vastly exaggerated in the excitement of potential new treatments (which I agree some people will exploit) but that a modest subset of people with IBS symptoms do have SIBO. His view is that if you have had 1-2 courses of antibiotics (esp two different types) and they have not worked it is better not to persevere with treatment for SIBO. Although for people desperate to have symptom relief I can 100% understand why they spend money on the herbal treatments etc.

[Maureen1958 in reply to Liz1234ty]

I might have believed in it years ago when my son was young (we are talking probably 20-25 years ago). I used to have a lot of sinus problems back then (still do actually) but back then I could get my doctor to prescribe antibiotics for me and it used to help the sinusitis and also helped the IBS as well (when I took antibiotics I generally didn't have IBS those days ((my IBS is daily)) and then maybe for a week or two after the antibotics the IBS was not so bad but after about two weeks the IBS just returned). But they stopped giving me antibiotics because they decided they should not be given out so frequently. Then when years later I had antibiotics for something else (probably an insect bite (I have a problem with them)) they made the IBS worse. And now I try to avoid antibiotics as they always make the IBS worse now. Very odd!

[Meleber]

I will ask my gastroenterologist if there are other additional physical examinations that could be done before trying another antibiotic.

I've read that amongst others there can be a problem with the pressure between the small bowel and colon, that the ileocaecal valve is leaking a bit so bacteria from the colon can enter the small bowel and that is not supposed to happen.

Could also be a symptomatic chronic mobile cecum syndrome. The symptoms I have, recurrent right lower quadrant pain, abdominal distension and constipation can be an indication.

[Liz1234ty in reply to Meleber]

If you look on You tube you can find videos showing how to manipulate the ICV and open/close it. I have not personally tried this so I don't know how easy they are to follow but perhaps worth a look?

[Hidden in reply to Meleber]

What are the tests for mobile caecum syndrome ? I wish you had a diagnosis as you have same as me x

[Meleber in reply to Hidden]

Hi, this article describes some rare cases "Surgery to Treat Symptomatic Mobile Cecum Syndrome Is Safe and Associated with Good Recovery Outcomes" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Hidden in reply to Meleber]

Thanks Meleber x

[xjrs]

I had Rifaxmin and neomycin together. No improvement. Then I had Ciprofloxacin to treat a Citrobacter Freundii infection of the large intestine. No improvement.

As you are aware from my previous posts I believe that I never had SIBO even though my breath tests showed postive (but these tests are not accurate).

I have done much better with shifting my large intestine bacterial imbalance with Alflorex probiotic. I sorely regret taking antibiotics since they didn't help at all and they probably compromised my gut bacteria a bit. For instance my IBS-C became very prominent when constipation wasn't that much of a problem for me and there are now some veggies that I used to be able to tolerate prior to antibiotics that I can no longer tolerate.

It's a rock and a hard place with SIBO, since you can't be sure that you have it unless you have one of the things that causes it and even then it might be hit and miss. It may be possible to conclude that if you aren't responding to Rifaximin that you don't have SIBO (at least the hydrogen based version). You also have to consider the potential consequences of taking further antibiotics. I know, it's hard. I really hope the research in this area starts catching up so that are some hard and fast treatments that can benefit people.

[b1b1b1 in reply to xjrs]

I agree with you. I had, as you know, SIBO and took rifaxamin. Since then I have been on a diet prescribed by my medical dietician and it has brought great relief for the last 2 months. Two weeks ago I had to take dental antibiotics (because I have a hip replacement). A few days after that I started having bloating & gas and stomach not feeling great. Today was feeling so crummy that I went to an urgent care place where they diagnosed c. diff, and prescribed Flagyl. I held off taking it until I talked to my gastro. He said not to take it and try to see him tomorrow for a stool test and blood tests.

I am a big worrier, so none of this is good. Especially concerned that I have really damaged my microbiome, and don't know how to get it back, especially since the gastro says not to take probiotics. It just seems like there is always something. Thanks. b1❤️❤️

[xjrs in reply to b1b1b1]

Oh dear. So sorry to hear about your c. diff. On top of everything else. Good for you to see your gastro about it first - at least they are the specialists. After taking antibiotics your microbiome will come back. However, the landscape of it may change a bit. I have started my website on wordpress with research that I have found as requested by people on healthunlocked. I have completed the page on 'rebuilding gut flora after antibiotics'. The website isn't live yet, since there is much more to write up, but I can pm you the copy and paste of that page about this if you want? For instance I'm wondering if saccharomyces boulardii might be an option for you since it isn't bacteria based.

[b1b1b1 in reply to xjrs]

My GP does recommend s. boulardii, however my gastro said no. I specifically asked him about this. I would love it if you could pm me the page on rebuilding gut flora. I worry that this may be difficult to do though, as I am on a super strict FODMAP diet. Let me know if you want me to pm you my present diet. It is interesting. ie. unlimited peanut butter.

Thanks so much. Can't wait to see your whole web site when it is up. xx

[xjrs in reply to b1b1b1]

It would be interesting to understand why your gastro said no to s. boulardii. I will pm you the page on rebuilding gut flora. The problem with diet is that what helps one person diet wise can be completely different for another person. This is probably related to the vast range of gut microbes that we all have between us i.e what one person is lacking, another might have in abundance perhaps.

[b1b1b1 in reply to xjrs]

When I see him I will ask gastro why he said no to s. boulardii.

[HealthAnxietyGuy]

Has anyone tried Oregano oil for treatment?

[eyeofthetiger123 in reply to HealthAnxietyGuy]

I tried garlic capsules and because you can take them for much longer, it was gentler on my system and removed all IBS symptoms. That and celery seeds.

[Mwaakas]

Hi everyone i found some interesting ibs products on the internet that could help some people with thier ibs because most of the products positive reviews are from people with ibs.1. Metagenics Ultra-InflammX

metagenics.com/ultrainflamx...

2. Designs for Health GI Revive

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3. Designs for Health Probiotic Synergy

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4. Designs for Health Paleo Greens

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5. Designs for Health Paleo Reds

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Products above can also be taken together as a smoothie but that makes it a bit expensive:

Try it: In a blender, combine:

2 scoops of Metagenics

Ultra-InflammX

1 tbsp. Designs

for Health GI Revive

1/2 tsp. Designs for Health

Probiotic Synergy

1 tbsp. arctic cod liver oil

1 scoop Designs for Health Paleo Greens

1 tbsp. Designs

for Health Paleo Reds

12 to 16 oz. purified water

Optional:

1/4 cup frozen, organic berries

1/2 cup rice, hemp, or coconut

milk

Take this as an alternative for your breakfast.

This information was gotten from this health website.

healthline.com/health/infla...

[SadlyHIT]

I have had IBS triggers all my life induced by stress but they would go away . After my pneumonia 2 years however my symptoms are way Worse and overlapped with symptoms of histamine intolerance which my naturopath said was from gut dysbiosis. Last 2 years did not try antibiotics , lots and lots of supplements and diet changes which have helped me get 70 percent better but they are some real bad days . The only thing left to try was the antibiotics and I had high hopes but now I am unsure if I should try them or not because I am worried that what little improvement I have seen would also be lost . P.S : black seed oil capsules and honey with a TA factor greater then 30+ has really helped amongst all the things I tried .

[Meleber]

Since nothing showed up after I had the CT-scan of my abdomen and it's still a functional problem with my intestines and because I do have positive experiences with some antibiotics (a long time ago) I decided to add st John's wort to my mix of supplements. It's known that st John's wort has antibacterial, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory potential, besides the antidepressant effects it has. I only take one medicine and know it can have interaction so will be cautious.

[Hidden in reply to Meleber]

Glad your ct was normal 😀x

[Meleber in reply to Hidden]

Hi, me too 👍🏻

[Meleber]

Dysbiosis and ‘Die off’

Source optibacprobiotics.com/profe...

The term ‘die-off’ is sometimes mentioned in complementary healthcare in relation to side effects from probiotic live cultures. These temporary side effects are believed to be a form of 'Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction', a phenomenon first identified by physicians when giving antibiotic treatment for syphilis. Patients being treated with antibiotics were seen to worsen after starting antibiotic therapy, experiencing a very broad range of symptoms such as flatulence, diarrhoea, bloating, headaches, skin eruptions, nausea, anxiety, or a ‘fluey feeling’, such as chills and muscle aches6. Although this reaction is primarily reported in the context of the use of antimicrobial treatment for spirochaetal infections such as syphilis6, the use of the term ‘die-off’ has also evolved in complementary healthcare to include the reaction that infrequently occurs following live culture supplementation in those with dysbiosis.

The cause of the phenomenon is unknown but is thought to be due to bacterial endotoxins and microbial antigens being released into the body systems by the destruction of pathogenic microorganisms. Complementary healthcare practitioners believe that a similar phenomenon occurs when clients use any supplements which have an antimicrobial action, and this is known as ‘die-off’. Like the Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction, it is believed that toxins released from dying pathogens (viruses, bacteria, parasites, candida yeasts, etc.) may overwhelm the body’s detoxification systems and produce unpleasant symptoms similar to those outlined above.

As friendly bacteria and yeast supplements can help to displace pathogens in the gut, it is believed that they may cause a similar effect, particularly in people with significant dysbiosis and large numbers of pathogens in the gut. For more information about the effects of probiotics in the gut, read this article on the Probiotics Learning Lab: How do probiotics work?

To date, there is scanty scientific evidence to confirm that probiotics cause these kinds of symptoms. Any research into the Jarisch–Herxheimer Reaction has been focused on the effects of antibiotics rather than natural food supplements. However, die-off symptoms are widely recognised by complementary healthcare practitioners, who may suggest that potentially reactive clients phase new supplements in gradually to minimise the risk of any reactions.

[Meleber]

Hi, an update in this old post of mine.

Next Monday I will have an appointment with a junior doctor in a tertiary hospital to discuss the chronic cyclic use of a systemic antibiotic like amoxicillin clavulanic acid or tetracycline for treating my functional bowel problems.

The hypothesis is that I have longstanding (chronic) SIBO / dysbiosis that also led to my functional gastrointestinal disorder besides other all over the body symptoms. To be continued and 🤞🏻

[Kazzacrazy]

Good luck 🙏

[Meleber]

Did see a junior doctor in an university hospital this morning. Talked with him for an hour and that did cost all my available energy for this day. He wants me to do a glucose breath test first to try to get confirmation of a disbalanced microbiome in my (small) bowel. And maybe later he will prescribe a course of antibiotics, amoxicillin clavulanic acid, to find out if it is beneficial in my situation.

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

This morning I had a SIBO breath test at the university hospital in Groningen, the Netherlands. They used glucose instead of lactulose.

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

Just came back from my consult in a tertiary hospital. The breath test was negative, no SIBO according to the gastroenterologist. He couldn't exclude that the natural antimicrobials I use since a long time had some effect on the results of the test. Since the test showed no dysbiosis the gastroenterologist was reluctant to prescribe an empirical course of amoxicillin clavulanic acid because it can also do more harm than good. I understand his point of view.

He told me, as I have been told in 2019, that I do have a functional gastrointestinal disorder (FGID) and that underlying cause most probably never will be found. He didnt' mention that it is IBS but in his letter to my GP practice he does mention that it is probably (constipation predominant) IBS (with overflow diarrhea).

Seen all the prior examinations that already have been done there's nothing else that can be done here in the Netherlands, except an appointment with the dieticians working for the hospital. As I never have seen a specialised dietician he made a refferal for me. Now hope that with a better diet I will have less symptoms and that it is a diet that I easily can follow for as long as necessary.

So this is it and after 3 years I'll stop seeking (really? 😉 ) for an underlying medical/physical cause of my FGID, probably IBS. I finally will have to come to terms with it, despite the debilitating and disabling effect it has on my life.

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

I thought so and can't ignore my gut feeling so I asked for a second opion. I now have an appointment with a consultant at the University Hospital Leuven, Belgium but because of the waiting times I have to wait till the mids of August this year for a first consult. My current working diagnosis is CIPO, chronic intestinal pseudo obstruction as underlying cause for my chronic functional bowel problems. I also found that there are two specialised centres for adults in the Netherlands for the diagnosis of intestinal pseudo obstruction so I did sent a message to one of them asking if I can have a consult. Traveling to Amsterdam, the Neterhlands instead of Leuven, Belgium is much easier for me, from where I live.

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

I'll go to the tertiary hospital in Leuven, Belgium because the reply from one of the expert centres in the Netherlands for motility problems with the (small) intestines is negative. They replied that, since the last gastroenterologist I did consult doesn't think there's a clinical reason for a manometry of my small intestine, they can't invite me for a consult. I intend to start a new topic/post on this subject, intestinal pseudo obstruction.

[Meleber]

An interesting article on the Swiss Medical Forum on SIBO written by medical doctors. In German but you can use Google Translate for example to translate it into any language you prefer.

Source: medicalforum.ch/de/detail/d...

Article can also be found on this website researchgate.net/publicatio...