can any one recommend an effective pre/ probiotics brand that specifically addresses IBS /D ?? i mean that is also FODMAP friendly * no lactose or corn derivatives in the inactive ingredients *
Every brand claims they are the best , but i need something truly tried by an IBS / D sufferer .
I'm already on the anti psychotic " Dogmatil" and Librax ..even though the D has subsided and BMs became more firm , i still struggle with the frequency and excessive horrible gas that i haven't experienced before when my motions were more to the Diahrrea side !!
Any suggestions ??
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Eternity78
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Hi, i am currently taking vsl#3 due to good level of clinical trial evidence. For first 10 days it made my gas and bloating worse! This is a known temporary effect for some people but still v unplesant. Things have settled down now but too soon to say if there is an improvement - will keep you posted.
I agree, it is too expensive for long term use but with a large number of different strains - about 8 - and a high concentration of bacteria i was hoping to prevent cycling between different probiotics and that this might work, in which case i would only take it for 2-3 months before going on a cheaper probiotic for maintenance. I wish these things were cheaper as we can spend a fortune on trying to feel well!
Yes VSL#3 is well known plus horribly expensive. It would be great if you could post your experiences over the weeks... I also had tried an expensive well known one called Symprove and I felt horribly sick and nauseous from it. I also heard that Alflorex is well regarded as well which has Bifidobacterium in it. I bought it but didn’t yet have the courage to try it (afraid of getting nauseous). As I’m feeling good now I don’t want to risk it. It’s difficult to know which bacteria strain works for you as every individual is different.
I believe that some time in the future they will be able to predict exactly which microbacteria are missing in our microbiota in our guts ....after taking the test (they already can do the test) but they can’t give yet precise advice as to which probiotic to take for each individual. This will be a big thing in the future. They are likely to be used in the future for mental illnesses and autism with none or very few side effects.
Hi LCat - i could not agree more. I studied a bit about this when a student (biological anthropology) and learnt that we humans are something like 90% microbial/bacterial and only about 10% actual human! Its mind bending and I think in the future all sorts of illnesses will be treated with sophisticated and targeted probiotics, but sadly it is baby steps and we are some years (decades?) from that. I am sorry to hear that Symprove was bad for you. From what i have read there could be a few reasons for this - e.g. allergy to an ingredient, die-off from bad bacteria or SIBO (which can be aggravated with probiotics) but it is really difficult and scary to persevere when the side effects are horrible. Perhaps you could try a less potent probiotic? I am happy to report back in a couple of weeks on the VSL#3 and will start a new thread on it. I plan to give it 4-6 weeks beforehand since it can take a while to work. Also, i have been feeling good over the last few days but is this thanks to VSL#3 or just a coincidence - i should hopefully know more once I have been on it longer.
I learned close to nothing about this when I was a student (medicine) ... but that was some time ago. But even young doctors seem to have to have very little knowledge about this. I find this subject now fascinating and I’m now non-stop reading up on this and researching it. I started to get interested in this after reading a book by Prof Tim Spector (Kings College) ‘The Diet Myth’ (he did all the research on identical twins). I’m about to possibly buy some horribly expensive books (latest stuff on this subject) from Blackwells. But would I really learn about the very latest knowledge? Or are they just speculating and know nothing yet ? Do you happen to know who’s doing where in the world at which University the most recent research on this subject ? So far I found some research being done in the University of Cork, Ireland (??). I also believe that it will take time and that at present the probiotics are still a bit like ‘guesswork’ or ‘hit and miss’ of what will work. Also Faecal Transplants are possibly still quite risky (one may get depression .... if the donor has depression). I wish they would progress quickly with this subject of probiotics... what is the reason why you take the probiotics even though you’re already feeling better ??? I was told by my GI Consultant to take probiotics after I found out that I had SIBO !!! I can well imagine why SIBO may be aggravated by probiotics. Are you not worried that ..... when taking them every day for the rest of your life ... that we don’t know yet how to target those probiotics at which individual ? I was also wondering whether one should have the (microbiota) test done .... look at which microbacteria are in your guts ... try to analyse which ones are missing or in a minority .....and then try to find a probiotic to address this ? Why is nobody doing this yet? I guess it’s too early.
I think that your knowledge on this far surpasses mine! I recall studying a bit about this at uni but that was nearly 20 years ago now. My research was linked to how when humans domesticated animals many bacteria and parasites spread across species to us. I've not read up on the latest research on probiotics so can't help there.
Personally i would not want to take probiotic supplements for long. I'd like to see if they help address any imbalance (if there is indeed an imbalance as I've not paid for tests) and then once gut bacteria has improved I'd prefer to maintain this through a sensible diet e.g. not too much sugar and natural probiotics and only take probiotics through supplementation should i have any antibiotics in future. I suppose all supplements come with a risk of side effects or unknown effects - if you read the labels on medicine prescribed by a doctor it can be worrisome but often these are rare effects and so I've programmed myself not to worry about it but to listen to my body and stop taking a medicine or supplement if it makes things worse and does not settle.
I am surprised that more research is not being done into this subject as there must surely be mega bucks involved if probiotics can be targeted to specific illnesses, but i think we will slowly get there. Getting a comprehensive stool test done - which includes looking for bacteria - is on my to-do list but I'm putting it off for now, partly cos of cost and partly cos I'm not convinced the results will be sufficiently accurate or tailored enough to facilitate treatment. This "IBS" nonsense diagnosis is a money pit.
Well ...I think you pretty much know what you’re doing. I wasn’t referring to a gonersl stool test but rather a specialised one : The test I was referring to is called the ‘British Gut Project’. I read Prof Tom Spector’s book called ‘The Diet Myth’ . The book was fascinating for me and got me seriously interested in this subject. He is from Kings College and deeply involved with this. I think the test is now £270.- (the real cost is much much higher) ....you get only the results as to the percentage of the various microbacteria (I think it’s 100 trillion) and they then give you a detailed percentages of all the types that are in your gut e g percentage of the Major Microbial Players in detail like Firmicutes (like Lactobacilli, Prausnitzii’s etc), Bacteroidetes, Proteobacteria and Actinobacteria incl lots of sub groups . (As opposed to years ago) they don’t tell you what this means. You have to either know or research it yourself which should be possible to do for someone like yourself.
That is really interesting. I was not aware of this test. Just added it to my growing list of things to work through as part of the differential analysis I am doing on myself (as GP not particularly interested) so like most given the IBS label it is up to us to become experts! I've made a note of the book you mention too - thanks for this.
yes it's wildly used here to treat gut symptoms in addition in my case to ease my severe OCD and GAD ( Generalised Anexiety disorder )
i tried previously all kinds of SSRI's Antidepressants which were useless and aggravated my diahrrea , so doctor switched to tricyclic antidepressants which were dramatically effective on OCD but caused bladder cystitis and kidney stones and inability to urinate !!
so i had to stop it 😩
Now i'm on Dogmatil which is another family ( Anti psychotic more than anti depressant ) which has its ups and downs but at least bearable and better than any thing i tried before
I'm also on one called "Seroquel" I Have BPD. Since taking it..No more cramping. Can eat anything I want..but I have worse constipation now, as it is a very sedating drug..take it at bedtime..
I started taking tumeric, probio7, digestive enzymes with peppermint ( from holland barrett) and L glutamine. i also cut out all my trigger foods- wheat onions garlic and most spices. reduced my loose stools and gas by about 70 percent. feels like i’m healing my gut but not sure which product is doing it! the gas is definitely relayed to my stomach not being able to break down certain foods and i can tell it’s fermenting inside! ate some wheat and it’s been fine.
Thank you for your reply ..have you lost weight when you cut out all trigger foods ?? because i lost a lot of weight due to this awful condition and cutting off all trigger foods which is basically most foods out there ..if so , how do you gain more calories without hurting the gut ? sorry difficult question i know but i'm starting to look scary like a skeleton and this is greatly affecting my self esteem 😩😟
I just also realise from a previous post that you’re taking also antidepressants and antipsychotics ..... I know it must be tough to get off those drugs .... doctors prescribe them when they don’t know what to do .....I guess out of desperation : like IBS is incurable ....doctors don’t know what it is nor what causes it nor how to cure it. so they don’t know what to do. They don’t want to tell the patient : “ sorry .... I don’t know how to help you”.... are you sure you want to really take them ? When you have stomach/gut problems ..... as long as you have those problems ..... you often find that it causes also anxiety/depression etc. This happens because the Vagus Nerve is upset and sends signals to the brain which then -as a reaction - causes these unpleasant symptoms. Once your GI problems will be better or gone : I believe the anxiety etc will go away relatively quickly. I’ve so far never seen anybody with GI problems who has recovered whilst on those drugs .... and this is not a joke : My neighbour had a foot problem his GP couldn’t solve. Guess what he was given : antidepressants .... it’s unbelievable. Even for his foot. Antidepressants and antipsychotics have serious side effects
That’s what I did after reading a lot of latest medical research : Keep leaving out all the whole grains, stay low carbs as they’re though on your gut lining and cause horrendeous problems....don’t ever eat any low fat products as they’re unhealthy but eat some protein and eat definitely some sensible amounts of fat (whatever you’re able to eat) like creamy yogurts or even some cheeses containing fat. I’m now finally also able to eat avocados 🥑 .... they contain fat (beforeI couldn’t eat them for months). The Fodmap diet initially cuts out almost everything..... that causes huge weight loss.... I was able to reintroduce milk and milk products : I never had any problems with milk ... the Fodmap diet initially cuts it out (to be on the safe side). 90% of white Caucasians are not lactose intolerant. All this helps against weight loss.
Thank you for your tips ..i would like at least to introduce any kind of cheese back as it contains fat , calcium and protein ..but which brand has the lightest ingredients on the guts ? or what they call it " FODMAP friendly "
the problem is that the more i eat the more i need to "go " ..it's like the transit time of food from the mouth to the Exit is too fast like a roller coaster 🎢🎢🚀
may i ask what approaches have you taken that helped you to introduce Avocado to your diet ?? is it a medicine ? a probiotic ? digestive enzymes ? or just a change in diet habits ??
Any meds made me ill .... even probiotics made me ill (they have inactive other ingredients that can make you ill ...so do all meds ). First I made sure I took absolutely no medicines whatsoever .... 1) there is NO cure for IBS or similar stomach issues (they know nothing about the subject) .... why then continue trying all this rubbish which won’t help anyhow ? ..... just makes you feeling more sick. Then I’ve been reading ....reading ....reading the latest medical research about the ‘diet’ subject. You have to understand that I was soo I’ll that I couldn’t eat anything ...I was only able to drink milk and eat one type of yogurt. ... so I wanted to be super careful what to try to introduce first. There are very very few GI Consultants specialised in the subject ‘IBS’ and they all say the same : stay away from harsh fiber .... don’t eat any whole fiber ever no whole grain no legumes no nuts etc...bottom line line no fiber especially never any whole grain nor any indigestible fiber. We’ve been ‘brain-washed’ for decades by the Cereal Companies (Kellogg’s etc). and told to eat rough fiber and to go low fat/no fat... etc. but that was a terrible wrong way to go. Thanks to this ...GI problems in the Western world increased dramatically. Therefore I totally changed my views on this : I now totally stay away from ‘tough’ or ‘rough’ fiber. No whole grains/no whole fiber/no indigestible fiber and eating a very low carb (but not zero carbs as some digestible vegetables contain some carbs). But you do need some protein to survive .... and fats are an important part of your diet. initially small amounts of white meat like chicken (I always make my own chicken soup because bouillon cubes contain bad stuff). Or small amounts of white soft fish (of course no batter). Never onion, garlic or leek, nor cabbage. Ive read several books 📚 about this (let me know if you’re interested and I’ll give you the titles). Strangely I also noticed that herbal teas were aggravating for me. So now I don’t even drink any hot tea nor coffee....only cold drinks (or chicken or veg soup ). I also noticed that the wrong kind of water (tap or mineral). made me sick. I now only drink one type of mineral water (which has the ideal electrolyte combination for me). Don’t yet try initially the avocados ... only later when you start feeling better .. Initially definitely no raw fruit !!! but later on you can reintroduce tiny amounts of them (berries are best but be careful with bananas).
and yes you’re right cheese is good for you ... believe it or not ... even blue cheeses as blue cheeses not only have calcium, fat and protein but also contains some of the beneficial microbacteria that are needed for your guts. Knowing how ill you probably feel ... I would definitely pick those cheeses that you liked when you were healthy . But don’t go for a fresh cheese like Philadelphia etc initially ... eat something more mature. No low fat cheese of course only full fat cheeses. Regarding blue cheeses ....initially nothing too strong tasting like St Augure or Roquefort but rather something more creamy and mild (but you must like it of course) like e g Castillo Creamy Blue ( looks like a 1/2 circle). Or Chamembert or Brie or any French ones that are not fresh or English cheeses like Cheddar etc anything that’s not totally ‘fresh’. It must be ones that YOU (not me) normally really love 💕 (trying to kick start your appetite again). I eat my cheese without bread (that’s only me) as I’m very frightened of anything bread-like (because of the fiber menace and also a bit worried about the gluten). However if you really want to eat bread then you should really only have bread from refined flour = soft white ! Definitely NO whole meal bread. But then lots of cheese and little bread only. I forgot to say butter is absolutely fine as well. In the evening I have my vegetables (digestible carbs veggies mostly) with a bit of melted butter over them (tastes lovely).
Oh and I forgot : initially definitely no raw salads whatsoever (which I normally love), no raw fruit (but you could do canned ones). Also not for a long time any nuts etc (which I normally also like). If you cannot live without Cereals .... then go only for corn flakes .... not ideal but the other cereals are much worse....the worst of all is stuff like ‘All Bran’ ... that is super rough stuff which messes up your guts big time
Wow ! Thank you so much for your detailed replies 🌹 i can relate to mostly every thing you mentioned ..yes i know about how bran flakes / Brown bread causes gut troubles for us ..i stick only to the white toast or bread ..as i'm sensitive also to corn , i replaced it with rice krispies .
fruits and veggies were not my favourite foods since my healthy days so i don't really miss them ..but cheese was my happy mood changer favourite 😋 that i really miss ..so thank you for the informative choices that you have suggested 👍although i didn't quiet understand why the full fat better than the low fat cheese ..i assumed being low fat is easier for the guts to digest ? may be they add other ingredients to make up for the less fat ? just a guess 🤔
Regarding antidepressants / antipsychotics ..i'm totally aware of the horrible side effects but i was forced to take them not only for my ibs but also for my other mental issues that are too lengthy and complicated to mention here 😥 Let's just say that i didn't have a choice, either take the meds or an ambulance waiting out side my home will strike in and take me against my will to be hospitalized ..and i can't live in a hospital " not any hospital " so eventually i adhered to take the drugs and commit to my doctor's orders 🤐😳
Oh my god .... I understand .... no ... being forced to live in a hospital .... especially nowadays ... that’s the last thing you want ...you’re right : you had no choice. Regarding the subject full fat : The old and outdated view used to be : Eat lots and lots of fiber, cereals, and whole grain and whole but zero fat. Since at least 2 decades, it is known that this was a recipe for disaster. All the foods that are made to be ‘low fat’ or ‘no fat’ are now known to be unhealthy : they’re ‘processed food’ and various additional unhealthy ingredients plus undesirable starches needed to be added to low fat foods to make them appear ‘normal’. A small amount of protein as well as a certain amount of ‘fats’ , healthy fats, of course, (not trans-fats) are needed for a properly functioning body, in particular also for the proper functioning of the brain. any ‘artificially’ produced ‘low fat’ product is to be avoided unless it’s naturally low fat mainly because of the additives. That applies to everything also low fat / zero fat Yoghourt etc. etc.
I use cytoplans vitamins, bit more expensive but as someone that is gluten and dairy intolerant and shellfish major allergy i have to b careful with what i take and they have no added nasties and was recommended them by a nutritionalist and a gastro dr so they must b good.
I take a probiotic ,digestive enzyme and peppermint oil capsule and have no wind or trapped wind or stomach aches anymore.
I have also stopped eating gluten and dairy, anything stodgy and i eat little and often as sometimes out body cannot digest quick enough that why u get wind and stomach problems.
the only thing that works for me is WINDEZE tablets , do get the tablet ones though , not the capsules , they work very quickly . from most main pharmacies in the uk , boots , superdrug also savers ..do try
Thank you for your suggestion🌸..i will certainly try them if they are of the type that absorbs the wind or break them down to relieve the pressure , not the kind that push it to get out in order to be released easily .. as this will cause public embarrassment 😓🙊
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