I've tried experimenting with kratom a couple of times. I've tried "Red Horn" and "Red Borneo", taking .5 teaspoon around 7pm (bedtime 11). Each time I tried it, I was kept awake all night long. Am I taking too much? Too little? Do I need to take it early in the day? Is it possible that it just won't work for me?
Kratom insomnia?: I've tried... - Restless Legs Syn...
Kratom insomnia?
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BAK524
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Edit: see my reply below. I read it wrongly.
Far too much!!!
I don't recall what other meds you were or are on. But in general it is ALWAYS very wise to start low and go slow. Get some measuring spoons and restart with only 1/4 teaspoon. Add another 1/4 tsp after 1-1.5h if you don't get any results. Maybe add a third after yet another 1-1.5h. RedBorneo is usually the best for rls.
If you still had symptoms try again the next night starting with 1/2 tsp and adding max two 1/4 tsp doses like I wrote above.
Something like this. I find the advice on the kratom sites of 2-3 mg for 'active' effects and (4-)6-8mg for 'sleepy' effects far too high. But hey, they are selling the stuff. If you look at other kratom post on this forum, you will find that what you have taken is mire towards an end dose after building tolerance over quite some time of continuous use.
Hope this helps and tonight will be better.
Oops. I missed the dot before the 5! Half a teaspoon is fine, but I thought you took 5! Sorry about that. And do take heed of DoDahman's reply. He has been using kratom far longer and more intensively than I have.
First of all, kratom is in the same family as the coffee bean. Secondly, it does have a reputation as being a stimulant in low doses and a relaxant in larger doses.
When I was taking it to help me sleep through RLS symptoms, I was taking far larger doses than yours, eventually, because of a growing tolerance, 4 teaspoons per dose, up to 4 times per day. (Beginners: NEVER start with such large doses.) Thanks to Dr. B, and his prescribing me low-dose (10 mg per day) methadone, I no longer use kratom.
My guess is that you may be especially sensitive to kratom. Read as much as you can about it, but it's not really very dangerous, so you can experiment with it in a sensible manner.
I also have heard that a larger dose of kratom is a relaxant and smaller dose is a stimulant. When I took it at the larger dose (can’t remember how much) I got extremely nauseous and when I took a smaller dose I got insomnia. It really worked on relieving my RLS symptoms but the side effects kept me from continuing to take it.
Yes, the reason that kratom is so much safer than opioids is that a kratom overdose makes you vomit, whereas an opioid overdose can make you stop breathing.
dodahman! I just purchased the white maeng da & red Bali kratom in 500mg capsules. No directions on label!! I can’t stomach powder. Do you have any idea how much to take for day ( white) red at night? Tried both white day it’s supposed to give u energy? It made me sleep! The red at night I believe actually brought on my RLS? Bc it to relax me I think enough to bring it on? Started each 1 capsule. Then took second after about 1 or 2 hours later? Looked on their website no directions either. I bought for pain and to help with RLS. Any thoughts?
was taking b/t 5 & 6 grams at bedtime. Much success. The commenter "Wanted-sleep", a couple of comments below, says "I was taking b/t 5 & 6 grams at bedtime. Much success." That mirrors what happened with me.
The small amounts that you took (500 mg capsule = 1/2 gram) would not have affected me at all. There's a saying sometimes quoted on this site: YMMV, which means, "Your mileage may vary."
There's another type of kratom called mitragyna hirsuta which has the advantage that it's not banned in any jurisdictions, is said not to be addictive, and is not as strong as kratom. I have not tried it, but you can google it to find online sellers.
If you "can’t stomach powder", I found that mixing it with a package of Carnation Breakfast Essentials (Instant Breakfast) and 8 oz. milk, made the concoction quite palatable, even up to 10 grams of kratom. (10 grams would be way too much for beginners.) Note: 1 teaspoon of kratom = approx. 2 grams of kratom.)
More sensible replies from DoDahMan and Birdland than mine.
I was taking b/t 5 & 6 grams at bedtime. Much success.
I agree with the above replies. There is definitely a spectrum of sensitivity to the alerting effects of kratom and opioids. I have not found that it becomes more relaxing at a larger dose - I too just get nauseous if the dose gets too high. For me, the alerting effect was less profound than that of opioids (fortunately, because I got no sleep after a sufficient dose of opioid to cover my RLS due to alerting). I think I have become more immune to the alerting effect of kratom over time but I occasionally take a sleeping pill to ensure good sleep.
I would agree with Lotte that it's best to start at the lowest dose that covers your symptoms. Also, could you perhaps combine with another treatment so that you could take a smaller dose of each? In my experience, RLS responds better to a multiplicity of drugs at a low dose than a high dose of a single drug - perhaps because the condition itself seems to be caused by an intersection of different problems (if the research of Ferre and Garcia-Borreguero is to go by).
Thank you for your reply. I am worried that I may be particularly sensitive to the alerting effects of both kratom and opioids. I was prescribed methadone and 2.5mg gave me insomnia as well.
Hi, I don't know much about kratom but the one thing that I have read over and over again is the Red Kali, Red Bali and the Red Da Maeng are the (3) strains that seem to help RLS more than others. That said; I take Hirsuta which is also from the coffee plant and a cousin to Kratom without the addiction properties that Kratom has. Hirsuta works for me when I take it for both RLS and sleep but I do not take it nightly. Best of luck
Thank you! I think I will try Hirsuta. Can you give me a reputable site from which to order?
Absolutely! I get mine from Teatimebotanical.com Not sure where you are located but the USA phone # is (903)-883-7479 if you want to discuss with them. I purchase the 85 grams for $18. USDollars. I take 1/2 teaspoon mixed in little OJ with water one hour before bed. One can take up to 1 teaspoon from what I was told by the owner of business but I never had to take that much even when my legs kept me from sleeping for months on end. I'm not one to promote things because everyone reacts differently - I travel with it now just in case; it's my first go to when I have an attack of sleepness nights.
Product I find helps me tremendously with the RLS and sleep.
Thank you so much Reb0013! I'm using Kratom, which works well but you need to take it often. Plus, I think I am somewhat addicted to it. (But, far better than the opioid issues I have dealt with.)
My case may be different than yours as I took DA's for far too many years. I took Methadone to get off of them. So, right now, RLS is an every night issue for me.
Thanks again for the details! I am in Chicago.
Oh, finally a local! I am a medical technologist by schooling and worked in the lab half my life so I have a natural tendency to research everything and stay away from as many drugs/pills as possible. That said, both my parents had RLS and I might have off and on growing up but no one knew what it was. I've dealt with flare ups for a few months here and there all my life but never debilitating until 2 yrs ago it hit hard and furious and I embarked on a journey with research, doctors, tests etc to find the cause. I did take ropinerole but only for 6 months thanks goodness; once I watched my mom augment on it I decided at my age (60's) I should stay away from it. My son was a drug addict for years; once he became clean he took kradom and abused it - became addicted to it and I watched him struggle getting off. That's when I discovered Hirsuta. As I said, it helps me - I've seen no side effects and I can go without taking it without even knowing as long as my legs don't bother me. Hopefully it will help enough to get to the next step in your journey too.
Have you had your ferritin checked?
Of course, it was 13.5. I subsequently had an iron infusion.. 1.5 yrs ago.
Did you have it checked a couple of months after the iron infusion?
Yes, of course. I've had a complete iron panel with ferritin 5 times now since the infusion. My dr. is monitoring it.
Great !
Wow-I can't thank you enough for all the info. I worry every day about the Kratom I am taking. And I can see you totally understand why I no longer want to go back to Methadone or get hooked on the Oxycodone Dr. B prescribed (yes, I flew all the way out there to see him).
We are very similar. My Mom was the first person to give me ROP. Luckily for her, she never took it enough for it to augment or cause issues. Unfortunately, before I realized the dangers of medication, I thought taking it was no issue. And I would take NyQuil, etc. often and then just pop some ROP or PRAM. Ugh-hate myself for being so stupid.
Anyway, so, you are saying that this stuff works just like Kratom? Just so I am clear? I would love to start interchanging the two so I can get off the K.
Oh, and so very sorry you and your son went through all that.
Thanks a BUNCH! xo
I am not claiming it to work just like Kratom- I have never taken Kratom but have watched my son suffer from longer term use of it and watched him struggle to get off. I research both products. All I'm saying is Hirsuta was my choice and definitely helps me with both RLS and sleep and from all my research it does not have the addictive properties of Kratom; which was a huge concern of mine. I was just thinking today about our US health care system which is suppose to be the best in the world. I believe many yrs ago our system was all inclusive and the best... by that I mean the doctors worked together and reviewed a pt's history to arrive at a multidisciplinary approach to helping a pt. My fm. doc would look at other physician notes and take those into consideration. Today, not so... each doctor, fm doc included will treat only the symptoms that apply to their practice without much reviewing of history, notes or heaven forbid they collaborate with another physician you have seen. Because there are many data points in a pt's medical history, each dr. treats their own set of symptoms which results in nothing more than treating symptoms. There is no chance of trying to find the root cause. I believe each pt has to be it's own advocate and bring to each dr. appt. anything important that may be overlaying from another visit to be a root cause of the symptoms. I believe we have to be the orchestrators. I have found that drs will interact on an entirely different level of intelligence once they know you have researched, you can show Mayo Clinic, John Hopkins links etc. I take charts in... my own blood work charts. My fm dr actually went out of the room unbeknownst to me and called another dr friend of his all because I politely challenged him on my ferritin level ( it was 13) and showed him my history and links to Mayo Clinic. He came back into the room and shared with me his conversation with another dr. and from that point on he took interest and began to help in my journey. All that said; no physician is going to listen to food supplements, Hirsuta talk or the likes... they don't make money on them and they are covered under liability ins. if they were to recommend. Try it and see; $18 for a try is worth it. Let me know!
Thank you and you are so right! Thanks for those details.
Yes, I have already ordered it and the company seems great. I will be thrilled if it works and gets me to even take 1/2 the kratom I am taking-or if it gets me off of it completely, that would be amazing.
I wonder if it lasts a bit longer than kratom-which does not last long at all for me. Only about an hour or two when trying to sleep overnight. I try not to take it during the day at all, but the withdrawal symptoms start usually late afternoon or early evening.
I never heard of either one of these until I was on this forum!
So, I thank you again for sharing; I am so glad I saw your post.
I hope it helps; please let me know. I take the Hirsuta one hour before bed and it just sort of causes me to drift off to sleep without realizing it. For me it lasts about 6 hours but I find if I can drift off to sleep without being awaken with Restless legs I am good with just 6 hrs of sleep.. it does not give me any fog or sluggishness when I wake.
Hi, Reb! The hirsuta does work and stops the rls. It is very similar to taking kratom.
I am still experimenting with it though. It gives me a weird headache and a bit of a burning digestion sensation on my right side. Which scares me, so I tend to shy away from it and back to kratom. I hope this company uses an independent lab to monitor it. Given what you have told me about your background-you would have looked for that!
Perhaps using both overnight is the big problem, too. I don't really know what to do right now and my nights are awful.
It is amazing to me that you need only 1/2 teaspoon to get 6 hours out of rls free sleep out of it. I do feel like it lasts longer than kratom and the info says that it is supposed to.
Thanks so much for your help and the info!
I'm happy to hear back and that it does work. Unfortunate that you have the weird headache and the burning sensation though - personally I wouldn't take both kratom and hirsuta at the same time though.. maybe give the company a call and seek the owner's advice or suggestion as to how to back off kratom and transition to just the hirsuta but maybe you already did that. Fortunately for me I see no side effects from using the 1/2 teasp of hirsuta. On another note, I have tried pharma GABA 100mg for the past 2 nights (without hirsuta.. I try one thing at a time) and it also worked both for my RL and for insomnia! It took about 3-4 hrs for it to be effective but I slept 4 hrs straight, woke up and went back to sleep another 2 hrs straight each night! GABA is a natural brain neurotransmitter - it is an inhibitory neurotransmitter for the central nervous system. The health food store specialist did caution me that some people who take to much could have seizures. The label says take 3-4 times per day. I only took the dosage once per day 4 hrs before bedtime. Again, I am not recommending this - simply sharing what my experiences are at the moment.
HI, again, Reb! You are right-I think combining the two was not good but I wasn't sure if I should switch cold turkey. I have tried more hirsuta and did not have the side effects. I was probably taking too much and/or mixing too much. But, it doesn't last as long for me, so far. You are so lucky.
When you say "pharma Gaba," what do you mean? Is that a dumb question? I did buy some Gaba from amazon a while back but then some people said it might convert to something else in the brain. blah blah. so i stopped taking it.
I will try it 4 hours before bed tonight! If you think that is what you are taking, that is. Wow-so pleased for you on this, too! Thank you for all your info. I am pretty desperate. No, I am very desperate. Trying so hard not to fully start the oxycodone sitting here. Although I cave many nights. Even that doesn't work! xo
I think the more you can transition off the kratom the better off you will feel. As I said I only take 1/2 teaspoon of Hirsuta one hour before bed mixed with maybe 1/4 cup of OJ and water. I slug it down because as you know it doesn't taste the best - actually I prefer using a straw to quickly drink it, lol. This is the GABA I am trying. I take it only once a day about 3-4 hrs before bedtime even though label says take 3-4 times a day. (typically recommended for ADHD persons for a calming effect ) I do not take the Hirsuta and this together. I like to try one thing at a time and am very cautious about mixing things. I have had good luck with this as well. I do take 200mg of Magnesium Citrate nightly still before bed though . GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain. It inhibits certain brain signals and decreases activity in the CNS, relaxes you. GABA acts similar to Xanax but is not an FDA regulated drug like Xanax. I get the same calming effect I get after a hard workout. I would caution you against taking this while still trying to come off Kratom though. Kratom messes with the brain receptors and since this is a brain supplement it would concern me taking them both --- as I said, I do only one thing at a time.I thought I could get by going back to half decaf coffee - 1 cup in the mornings. So I took nothing at night for a week and did the half caffeine in mornings... The entire week I did this I had restless legs every single night. Drop me crazy and could not sleep more than 1.5 hrs here and there. Stopped the half caffeine for 2 days and immediately my legs stopped. I am quiet sensitive so perhaps some things that work for me are less so for others. Love hearing of your progress; you can get off the kratom, my son stayed with my husband and me while he got off it and it wasn't pretty, bad moods, sick to the stomach, couldn't sleep, no appetite. Took him about a month I recall and then he started climbing back to himself. That stuff changed his whole personality and it wasn't for the better.
Supplement
Interesting about the caffeine. I cut it way back to almost nothing but not totally nothing. Maybe I am that sensitive, too.
Thanks VERY much for all the details as that is what I need.
I don't know how I could get off the kratom or hirsuta completely in order to try the gaba though. Taking nothing at all is not an option.
You don't have the long-term DA use behind you, do you? I know I asked you this first thing. It is probably the huge difference here with us and trying these things.
great to know his exact kratom experience, too. i think i might be able to switch straight to hirsuta-possibly.
do you take iron before bed?
thank you!
Teddi, I do not have the long term DA use. I was on a low dose of Ropinorole 2 yrs ago and it worked great for me. However, once I read up on the augmentation and also knowing my ferritin was only 13 and iron panel was really low my Dr. started me on 150 mg of iron daily. After 3 months my blood work had not improved ... at all... I wasn't absorbing it so he approved an iron infusion. I stopped the Ropinorole about 4-5 months after taking it for fear of augmentation and I also wanted to see if the iron infusion worked. ( oh, and to add to my son trying to get off Kratom he had terrible restless legs for about 2 weeks coming off Kratom as part of the withdrawal symptoms. He is not diagnosed with RL and fortunately once he got off Kratom hasn't had any more symptoms. ) Re; taking oral iron now... I do not take any as my iron panel is perfect since the infusion except the ferritin has remained high at 413. That is concerning to me but if it hasn't come down to around 200 by November when I go back for follow up I will donate a pint of whole blood per my doctor to lower it a bit.
thank you, Reb! m ferritin dropped from the 300's to the low 200's within the year after an infusion, just fyi. it is still in the low 200's 15 months later.
yes, of course i now remember you telling me about your mom. so sorry. and again, so glad she left you with that huge huge benefit of not taking DA's for ages.
I hope the Gaba is still working for you!
and PS-RLS IS the first symptom noted for withdrawal from an opioid. and also kratom. I experienced both but the kratom is much easier to manage, compared to trying to get off an opioid. in my opinion! in fact, kratom totally saved me when i got cut off very abruptly.
not sure what the answer is and the opioids are such a huge drag for so many reasons.
Still having good luck with the pharma GABA. (amino transferase... not Gabapentin) .I took it 5 nights straight, no RL and I sleep reasonably well... at least 6 hrs. Same as with Hirsuta. Both give me relief; I'm just nervous a bit not knowing the long term effect of either. I have researched more on the pharma GABA though. The GABA is made by a fermentation process using Lacto Bacillus (good bacteria). It does not pass the brain barrier. It circulates in the blood and binds to the GABA receptors in the gut to produce alpha waves and create the relaxation and anti-anxiety properties. I didn't even know we have GABA receptors in the gut. The past two nights I didn't take the GABA or the Hirsuta and I had trouble falling asleep plus I had RL in my shoulders and one buttock... urgggg... finally everything calmed down around 2 a.m. Perplexed...
so interesting! thank you. it seems like Gaba would be much better long term than Hirsuta. and much cheaper and easier to get.
I wouldn't worry too much and you are so lucky that they both work and with with a low amount to boot.
you could probably take a tiny bit more of the hirsuta after 4-6 hours-so you could then sleep for 8 hours and feel really good.
I have some Gaba from Amazon, and I tried it yet again after your post. Maybe your brand is better? or, yet again, nothing this easy will work for me.
I posted a picture of my brand; I buy it at a health food store here in Florida. The store manager told me she gets a lot of request for it from parents with kids with ADHD. and also some pts with RLS. The instructions say can take up to 3 times per day; I only take once before bedtime. I do believe the pharmaGABA is better because it is naturally fermented from good bacteria whereas the regular GABA is synthetic. However, no one has told me that nor have I tried the regular one. It comes up when you google it; there is no phone # nor website noted on the bottle. It is made in Canada according to the bottle. Costs here is $22.45 for 60 chewable tablets that taste like fruit. At least now I will travel with it when I take vacation or visiting friends and family and hope it continues to work. I am pretty strict with my diet still (that part stinks).. occasionally have wine or a dessert but no caffeine.
PS-any reason you take mag citrate instead of mag glycinate? I see both mentioned on this site and I'm wondering if I should switch.
Oh my, thank you for catching that! My mistake - no, I take Mg Glycinate (not citrate). I sometimes throw in a Mg Oxide or Mg Malate in the mornings for regularity... (or I find organic Psyllium Husks is great for regularity - My sister is a nurse, my brother in law a doctor so they pass on tips to me that work for them on certain things too) One of the things my brother in law helped me identify 2 yrs ago was that I had a H. Pylori gut overgrowth. He says it is common and most people don't experience symptoms but some are more sensitive, as I am. It is a normal bacteria in the gut that can overgrow and cause CNS problems by producing cytokines. Cytokines are produced when there is inflammation in the body and have something to do with cell signaling. This can exacerbate the RLS. Bottom line is this was back when my RLS was at it worse... about the same time I had the iron infusion because I wasn't absorbing iron orally. He told me the H Pylori prevents iron absorption in the gut. It was diagnosed by a simple breath test at the lab - once my doctor saw the positive lab result, he put me on special antibiotics for 2 weeks then retested and tested negative. Since then I take a probiotic only a couple times a week plus the Psyllium Husks serves as a prebiotic when I take it to keep the gut happy. No problems since.
Could you let me know your brand of mag glyc?
Yes, I did see the photo of the gaba-thanks!-and found it on amazon with good reviews. Although the one I chose had good reviews, too, it is worth a try to switch brands. I think?! lol. I will order both.
Oh, and do you ever take mag citrate for any reason? I have been using the one from Life Extension for a long time. Thanks, Reb!!
Sure, I use KAL brand, 350 mg but you have to take 4 to get the 350mg. No particular reason I use that brand. More often than not I take Mg Oxide in the morning , then just 2 of the Mg Glycinate pills before bed ~175 mg. Any brand is probably fine as long as it is fully chelated which makes it easy for the body to digest and absorb. It's also gently on the stomach. I don't take the citrate but it is also good for regularity, digestion and overall well being supposedly. Glycinate is more for relaxation.
Hi Teddi, pulled up an old email because I’m on vacation and didn’t have the log in ... wondering how you are doing lately? Are things settling down?
Hi, Reb and thank you so much. I'm still just trying to get through each night w either kratom or hirsuta. I'm adding gaba and asprin and iron at night, too.
I'm also taking one berberine supplement a day-san andreas has a theory that it could help heal our receptors, so I'm trying that for a few months. You may want to research that, as maybe it could help you.
Dr. B prescribed suboxone for me to try, though it may or may not have consequences in terms of opioid receptors if you need emergency surgery.
Per usual, I am confused and resistant to going on the opioid full time! I have no idea if I am hurting myself more with the kratom/hirsuta ingestion.
How are you doing? Managing well with the gaba?
I pray for your healing and that your body responds positively to your applications. I am out of my routine visiting with family and friends. Was doing well until last night; had two alcohol drinks and lots of garlic and onions in a vege dish at a restaurant. Even though I did my normal PharmaGABA 2 tablets before bed I was up all night long with the legs. I suspect it was the diet last night - garlic and onions are highly inflammatory for me but I tried it again and BAM! Slept from exhaustion from 2:30-5am before legs were at it again. Up having my decaf coffee at the moment. Going to refrain from alcohol next few days and watch what I ingest - and pray for the best. Prior to tonight I had gone about 10 days with no problems. After two years of logging daily habits.. try this, try that and record... I am convinced RLS is as much about gut and body inflammation as it is about deficient brain barrier iron. I didn’t know you were a pt. of Dr. B (the famous Dr B I presume). I hear he is a marvel at RLS treatment.
Thank you so much-that is so so nice.
Yes, I flew to CA to see him after getting cut off from methadone by 2 different doctors. I was only able to make it to the long-awaited appt. with him by using kratom and I also went back to some ROP out of desperation (I regretted that move!)Even though I had several other doctor appts. in my (huge) city, it was tough to know what to do or how to get help. The doctors are just paranoid about even the WORD opioid. At one point, a couple of GP doctors from a methadone clinic offered buprenorphine to get me off of the methadone and kratom. I could have, and maybe should have, gone that route but decided to see what Dr. B said.
So, the methadone got me off the DA's and then kratom got me off the methadone. After all that, I no longer wanted to go back on full opioids. I was sleeping way too much and just generally not myself fully.
Enough about me and so sorry about your horrible night. Didn't you say you traveled with hirsuta? I would say, be sure to have that or kratom with you. One other thing i have learned: you can take a little kratom or hirsuta in powder with water or a drink....THEN at same time, take 4 kratom capsules. or hirsuta (if they have capsules). i realized that the capsules kick in later, which keep you asleep much longer than just the powder.
I, too, am a vegetarian and would have eaten that. I thought garlic was great for inflammation?! omg.
Interesting observations and ones that many on here share.
Well, good luck tonight and I do hope you have some hirsuta or kratom with you. If NOT-you can get kratom almost anywhere. And get some Delta 8 while you are at the same shop! Fingers crossed for a great night of sleep!
Thks for the reply - just so interesting to know how others are faring with this. The one bad night was a night I actually did not take my hirsuta for some reason (probably just out of sorts with travel and family and friends around). Last night I had 2 glasses of red wine with dinner then came straight home and took the Hirsuta... slept great, lol. Legs didn’t start until 6 am. Anywho... still on vacation so I’m going to have my wine... and the Hirsuta and the GABA. Take care!
Hi, TeddiJ, how are you? Long time no talk. I need to ask you if the Hirsuta works for you? Is it good for insomnia? I still have issues with insomnia and I'd like to try Hirsuta if it is effective for insomnia. I have talked to the owner of the company and she is very friendly. Let me know if Hirsuta helps with sleep. Thanks.
Hi! How are you? Sorry you still have insomnia.
I just received it in the mail today-will definitely let you know how it goes. Give me a few days to be sure.
Thanks, Teddi
Hi, again! I am still unsure if the Hirsuta will help with your insomnia. It seems similar to kratom, for me, so I can't tell because I wake up constantly with RLS.
I wish I had a better answer for you-you should probably just try it, since the cost is pretty low.
It does work on the RLS, which is the good news. The bad news is, this particular one gives me a couple of other mild symptoms (headache and a bit of a digestion reaction).
I also think I need to stop going back and forth with kratom-maybe that is the issue. I still haven't tried one full night with the hirsuta only.
Which company owner did you speak with?
Hi, Teddi, thanks for your reply. I did talk to the owner of Teatimebotanical.com for Hirsuta. She suggested to try both of Javanica and Hirsuta for insomnia. She sounds very nice and friendly on the phone. But I didn't go ahead trying them. Instead, I bought Ashwa Lychee Drink for anxiety-induced insomnia recommended from medicine-reviews.com. The testimonial on medicine-reviews indicated that Ashwagandha derived from KSM-66 is very effective for anxiety-induced insomnia. I am going through very difficulty time with my back problems and suffering from a lot of anxiety and insomnia. I have bought it to try it for a month. It is very expensive and costs $99 a month. I am desperate to relieve my anxiety and insomnia therefor I bough it to try. I'll let you know the results. I understand your dilemma deciding which way to go. It is tough to make a decision, opioid or natural remedy. I was going through the similar situation long time ago, I am settled to take oxcodone despite the adverse effects I have to suffer. Good luck to you.
Thank you for the info and so sorry you are suffering, too. I really hope the new product helps you!
Yeah, it gets so so old dealing with drinking "dirt' multiple times a night and never getting prolonged sleep. Last night I was starting to think I will cave soon and eventually I took a few oxycodone.
I recently stopped taking Horizant as I decided once AGAIN that it isn't doing much. You certainly know how I feel and how this is going!
Thank you so much!
Hi, Halperinchen. How are you doing? Any better? Did you try Delta 8 yet, for sleep? It is easy to get.
HI Reb0013, thanks for contributing to this discussion. I agree 100% with your comments regarding the dysfunctional nature of our medical system. I am very curious about the hirsuta and will be ordering some.
TeddiJ, I was communicating with a lady on fb messenger today about her recent nerve decompression surgery. She had it done on both legs in Colorado at the Anderson Podiatry Center. Her RL has improved by 90% she says and within the first 2 weeks of the surgery. She is a real patient with real results; she sent pictures of her legs right after surgery with the sutures. I find this fascinating and do believe this type of surgery can help if not even cure the problem for a lot of RL sufferers. I am following her progress but in the meantime she pointed me to Dr Anderson's youtube videos - they are awesome and show the surgery and the ultra sound of the nerve tunnels in the legs. Her medicare paid all but $600 for the ultrasound. He does one leg at a time a week apart to see if you get relief from the first leg before doing the second. She said very little pain and the leg is numbed for surgery rather than going under general anethesia. Something to research and decide for yourself....
hi I just purchased red Bali it seemed to relax me but I think it brought on symptoms of RLS in my upper back n arms?? I have the 500mg capsules bc I can’t stomach the taste of powder!🤢 No directions on bottles or website. Any advice?
For me if I take something I know is going to relax me like melatonin or a muscle relaxer I have to be so careful as to when and at what point I take either bc sometimes ( most lately) when I do the relaxation brings on RLS. Which makes sense bc RLS comes out when you are trying to sleep/ relax!?!? Many Years ago in my night crawling I’d go on internet for info ( which wasn’t like today) RLS was not heard of back then. But by grace of God I did find some info! Anyway I read the more activity you have during day the more chance you can get episode. Which was me. But I started getting in day. My point being if you are “ to relaxed “ the demon will surely see to it the you will suffer his vengeance, and infiltrate your body like he owns it!!!
PS also back then I found doctor ( specialist he is a founder of the RLS foundation) who now I no longer have bc he moved to another state! My RLS started around 1996!!!!
Hi. I am using Kratom. I would not take it earlier in the day, unless you start feeling withdrawal symptoms, as the powder version works within minutes.
Your evening dose should be helping you to avoid evening RLS. Are you saying that you have no RLS all night-just insomnia? If that is true, you are doing just great. I would switch strains, possibly add a sleeping pill, and consider yourself super lucky.
Or, you may be taking too little. I take a teaspoon or two, several times a night. Yes, build up slowly, but try one teaspoon, if not a bit more, depending on your weight. I am female and weigh 123.
It is hard to imagine it won't work for you. I use Red Borneo and Red Bali, but see another post for the ones that are reputed to be best.
I hope you find the right balance!
HI Teddi, thanks for your response. In my post I neglected to mention that I have been taking 1 teaspoon of Red Bali before bed now for the last few months. It does not cause me insomnia. I am reluctant to increase the amount, and it doesn't seem all that effective at this dose. I wanted to try some new strains, hence the Red Horn and Red Borneo. Both of these gave me insomnia using only a half a teaspoon. I was prescribed methadone by Dr. B and 2.5mg gave me insomnia as well. I am currently taking 1 mg of ropinerole, which barely works, and weaning off pregabalin which I can't tolerate. I have a video appointment with Dr. B in two weeks and I think he wants me to try suboxone.
Hi. Do you live in CA? Just curious, as I had to travel to see Dr. B.
He will not like that you are taking kratom. I am taking it because I do not want to go back down the opioid road. Once one starts, it is nearly impossible to do anything else down the road.
I would venture to say that your MAIN issue is that you are probably augmenting on ROP, causing your symptoms to be worse and harder to control. I know what you mean, as I went back to ROP at times during this past year. It didn't work well for me either but what it DID do is make everything worse.
I would start weaning off of that, asap. Once you get that totally out of your system and some time goes by, your symptoms should be much easier to control.
PS-a teaspoon or two of kratom (Bali or Borneo) only lasts me about an hour or two while trying to sleep. I have to keep taking it.
Yes I live in Northern California and had a live appointment with him last April. I had to fly. I mentioned the kratom at the time and he said that he had many people using it, and yes, you are correct, he is not crazy about it. The possible issue that I see with it is that it becomes less effective over time, and larger and larger doses are needed, so I would be careful with it if I were you. I'm not sure if I'm augmenting on the ropinerole. I do notice that every time I reduce the amount of pregabalin I take, that my RLS increases 2 -8 days after the drop. I am keeping a tight rein on my ropinerole dose, swearing to myself to never go above 1 mg. I take 200-250mg dipyridomole once or twice a week. It may help a little, but for me it's no silver bullet. How often do you take the oxycontin? ( I am open to taking an opioid if I can find one that I tolerate).
Yes-we were there at the same time! We may have discussed that back then, too?(Sometimes I think all of this is affecting my memory.)
You are right-I need to be careful and find something else. Going to try Hirsuta next, thanks to another poster.
Is pregabalin like gabapentin and horizant? I should know what it is but I don't. I am taking Horizant every evening, fyi. I also have a prescription for Dipyridamole here, though the low dose did nothing. Dr. B wouldn't even have me try it out but another doctor thought I should try it. I am currently not taking it and need to re-vamp and try it all again.
I am now only taking less than 5 mg of oxycodone-just to wean off of when I was trying more of it. Methadone actually works much better for me and lasts the whole night. But, I often took a little piece of Ambien to actually sleep at night. I slept better during the DAY, as METH would make me fall asleep on a dime during the day, but not at night. I am so glad to be OFF methadone-for many reasons.
Oxycodone only lasts 4 hours, he said, which explains why it wasn't touching my rls. He had told me to take 5 mg in the evening and then 15 mg's at 1:30 a.m.-this after the other doses did nothing at all. But, as I started feeling the whole withdrawal thing and side effects, I decided NO, I am NOT going down that road. I just can't stand that whole opioid dependence and fear of getting cut off.
Have you tried taking the Dipyridamole every night? Checked the right dose?
Also: did dr. B have you stay on ROP? I am stunned, if so. And put you on pregabalin? The Dipy?
I just want you to know that when I went back to that low dose of ROP-even less than .5 or 1 mg-it did nothing but make things worse. If you have ever augmented on it before, Joolsg and others say it happens again really quickly. Even on a low dose. Please consider getting off of it, unless Dr. B disagrees.
Let me know if you want to compare any other notes. I don't think I am helping you much though!
If t he horizant does nothing for you, you may want to consider the pregabalin. It's more or less the same chemical as gabapentin, but the effects are quite different. The side effects of pregabalin can be intense, so proceed with caution. It worked on my RLS but at a huge cost. I basically could not function. Dr. B prescribed me methadone, and 2.5mg kept me up all night. I think he wants to try me on suboxone next. I have a prescription for dipyridomole, and take 200-250mg, once or twice a week, in the middle of the night when the ropinerole wears off. It doesn't work all that well for me, and the headache is substantial. Dr. B definitely wants me off the ropinerole and at my last meeting says that I should go off of it cold turkey (once I find an opioid that works). I recall that you tried your brother's buprenorphine. Are you sure that you are unwilling to go back to something like that? There are really not many options for us. I am so envious of those that respond to dietary modifications and iron.
Hi and thank you for the info. Yeah, it is hard to believe that the dipyridamole would work for you at such a low dose and so infrequently. I felt sick and headachy on it at first but that did go away. I am totally off of it now so would have to start over and build up to 300 a night. That dose apparently works, if it is going to.
The BUP made me SO sick the next day. I would vomit every time, even on a tiny piece of a tiny pill. But, I know people get around that and love it. So far I have tried that, 7-10 mgs of methadone, and oxycodone. But, I just do not want to be in opioid land again-it had its own set of effects and issues for me...like another huge problem on top of the RLS problem.
You are right-there are really no options for us. But, I am still trying. About to try that hirsuta.
For you, once you find an opioid that works, you will easily get off the ROP. I really hope you get the suboxone to try soon! Let me know!
Kratom can really make a problem and make RLS worse. As I have said several times in this blog, my partner had to go to rehab twice for it.Please try to stay away from it, in my humble opinion.
Hi. I would love to stay away from it but I have nothing else that works. Unless I go back to an opioid. Sigh.
The Horizant I still take does not work on its own.
Hopefully this Hirsuta option will be better and I can get off the Kratom; we shall see!
Hi, again, Teddi!
Just wondering whether you are experiencing a growing tolerance to the kratom? (Also am considering the Hirsuta, but haven't bought any yet - please let us know your opinion of it after you feel you've given it a fair trial.)
Hi, DoDah!! How are you doing?! Yes, I do think I am needing more kratom but the hirsuta just might be the answer. I have been taking both and I feel that hirsuta allows you to get your kratom tolerance lowered. The member who told us about it did the research and seems to feel it is safer, as well. (She doesn't take much of it at all but I need more.)
I just ordered another bag of hirsuta, and I am so glad she told us about it! I need to write to her. Just as I have you to thank for the kratom help-you have no idea how you saved me, truly.
I would order it if I were you. Decent price for a small trial bag on teatimebotanicals. Although I thought you were happy with the methadone you are taking?
I have suboxone sitting here and I haven't yet tried it due to Dr. B and others saying the kratom, etc. would no longer work.
I am experimenting with taking berberine every day in the hopes that it can reset my receptors-we shall see.
Cheers!
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