I am not in any way an expert or a scientist or an educator and am only letting you know what I have found out and what has helped me. Oxalates and salicylates are plant toxins that act as a natural bug repellent and disease inhibitor. Most of the toxins are found in the outer peels or skins of the plants.
I have suffered from RLS my entire life. My mom complained about me being restless and tearing my bed apart at night. I have never been a "good sleeper". I mostly just suffered through it and when I was a teenager, I used alcohol which helped me to sleep. I continued using (abusing) alcohol as an adult and my RLS progressed. My Primary Care Physician put me on tramadol which helped a great deal and I was on that for years without ever upping the dose. My ferritin level is always over 100. After a bee sting in the face at age 52 I was given benadryl to help with the swelling and inflammation. This put my RLS on overload. Even weeks after going off benadryl my RLS was not manageable at all. My PCP started me on ropinirole which I could not tolerate as the daytime sleepiness prevented me from being able to function. I switched to pramipexole which worked...until it didn't and made my RLS so much worse. After 10 years, I weaned myself from the pramipexole but my RLS stayed the same.
One night, searching desperately for something to help that was not a drug, I came across "Notnowdad's" post about being free from RLS for years because of a low oxalate eating plan. I am not a stranger to elimination diets as I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and had established an eating plan that was successfully keeping it under control. I looked at lists of high oxalate foods and realized that most of my diet consisted of VERY HIGH oxalate foods especially potatoes, spinach, almonds, tea, herbs, cacao and spices and a many more healthy foods.
I stopped eating foods with high oxalates and after one day I did not have RLS that next night.
I was still restless during the day and night and started looking into salicylates as a potential cause. Reducing salicylates has reduced my restlessness to where it is non-existent and as a side benefit has reduced my allergies to the point where I don't even think about them anymore.
Using a food log I found that my safest foods are white rice, eggs, dairy, meat and fish. I eat very little processed foods and any processed meats I eat are nitrate, sugar and sulfite free. I eat gluten free rice pasta. I use mostly maple syrup and sometimes refined sugar as a sweetener. I use salt and white pepper. I use sunflower oil. I eat pecans, walnuts, sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds. I drink coffee daily, but only one cup as it can interfere with sleep. Otherwise I only drink water and water with lemon juice. The peel of the lemon contains oxalates so I never use that anymore. Any plants that I eat I try to determine if it's a low o/s plant first and I ALWAYS peel plants before cooking or eating. Many herbs, spices, teas and plant oils have highly concentrated amounts of oxalates and salicylates so I avoid most of them and look up anything I want to eat to determine if it's high in o or s before I use it. I am gluten free and eat few goitrogenic plants as they adversely affect thyroid conditions. I don't eat bananas as they seem to always trigger RLS in me but I don't know why. Asparagus also seems to trigger RLS, even organic asparagus, but I don't know why.
I have been on this eating plan for a year now and have had tremendous success! I feel that o/s build up in my body over time so I try to take a day or two a week and only eat my safest foods.
I have been adding some plants back into my plan to see how they affect me. I ate some french fries this week, maybe ten thin fries and had RLS and PLMD the next night.
I don't take any medications or supplements. I don't drink alcohol anymore.
I hope this helps someone like the info from "Notnowdad" has helped me - actually it saved my life.
Wow. You've worked hard to get there. I find it takes very strong determination to try such restrictive diets. I have sone several, the kost restricted being vegan and glutenfree at the same time. But yours is more restrictive, at least in my opinion, as I really like vegetables and hardly eat meat and little dairy.
Can you give some examples of vegetables that you can eat on your oxalate and silicate free/low diet?
It may be worth it. I am not 100% sure it is the medication, but I have been listless and quickly tired for quote some years. Even/especially when the rls symptoms got to almost nil with opioids. But drowsiness etc is a common side effect of opioids. So maybe.... I would be really thankful for more info.
Before I stopped eating foods high in oxalates, I was transitioning to a plant based diet and was disappointed to find that I was not able to continue that. I limit the quantity of plants that I do eat now.
I eat tomatoes, cucumbers, celery, brussel sprouts, carrots, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, a leaf or two of romaine lettuce. The broccoli, carrots and cabbage I usually make into a slaw. Cauliflower, I make into fake mashed potatoes. I peel the skins off before cooking or eating. These are the ones I seem to be able to eat without a problem.
I am in the process of adding new plants to my eating plan and seeing how they affect me. I want to try sweet potatoes, winter squashes and summer squashes. It's a long process but, for me, totally worth it.
Also, check out posts from notnowdad as he has some nice food suggestions and more information.
Wow!! Determined, willpower, what a journey you have been through. And to come out of this feeling a better healthier person. A big Pat on the back, and hope your new way of living carry’s on for you, to have more of a peaceful life. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Congratulations on your success! I've found that inflammation of the nerves to be the main cause and that has inflammation mostly is due to raised blood sugar and refined seed oils. I've heard that oxalates can be a problem for some people as can nightshades but you're the first case I've heard of where oxalates can cause rls. Shows that RLS is not incurable if you're persistent and diligent enough.
I don't know if it's the oxalates or something else honestly. Refined seed oils are generally high in oxalates as are potatoes which are a nightshade. But, I am pretty sure that bananas also trigger RLS in me and bananas are not high in oxalates nor are they a nightshade.
I just want everybody affected by this horrible affliction to know what has worked for me in case it might work for someone else.
Bananas bother me also..they are very high in histamines. I enjoyed reading your testimonial. I wish i had found it sooner! I have been on the low-ox path for almost 3 years..i eliminated them slowly and i am still dumping. The other thing that has helped enormously is going low-histamine..this means only freshly prepared meats, no simmered foods, no broth...so also no risotto..if i would really like to torture myself, i could make a slow simmered pork shank and serve over risotto and have the night from hell! Oxalates also cause histamine release...so is it histamines that cause this? Or oxalates...in any case...oxalates are plant poisons...who needs them, eh?
Oh,you are an inspiration and seem such a determined person.im gonna show my ignorance now and say I don't know anything about salicylate and Oxyilates.What is Notnowdad,is that a fellow sufferer on this forum? There has to be something that is causing RLS and food could possibly be the common denominator. I'm thankful to you for your information.
I also want to say that I know there is conflicting and confusing information about oxalates and salicylates out there. I did find information on Facebook from communities who were trying to figure out what foods are high in o/s. These are not RLS communities. I found these communities to be the most informed and open to discussion. There is one Facebook community that has an oxalate spreadsheet of foods and the amount of oxalates they contain. The spreadsheet is 208 pages and is being constantly updated. I have used it like a Bible. I am no longer on Facebook or I would be more specific about where to find it.I hope that helps somebody.
Hi Rls789.Most plants have both oxalates and salicylates. Some of the plants I eat are low oxalate but high salicylate. Plants we generally think of as fruit are often high salicylate. It's confusing and information is scarce and conflicting. Salicylates don't seem to trigger RLS in me but do seem to cause restlessness that prevents me from sleeping. Coffee is a good example. It's low oxalate but high salicylate. I drink one cup in the morning and that seems to be okay for me. If I know a plant is high salicylate, I eat only a small quantity and try not to eat any too close to bedtime. Apples, cherries, spinach, avocado, grapes, broccoli, nightshades, teas and lots of herbs can be high in salicylates. I might eat a quarter apple or a stalk of broccoli a day. And as plant toxins are usually concentrated in the skins, I always peel off whatever I can. Aspirin is a salicylate. Supplements and some medications can contain high amounts of salicylates.
I hope this helps and isn't just more confusing!
Thanks for sharing your success story Sleep2022. Long may it continue. And kudos to you for your discipline in maintaining such a restricted diet.
Thanks for sharing your story. I have a very similar one, with similar success, which involves the avoidance of what are called “excitotoxins” such as “free” glutamic acid, which gives foods that buttery, savory feel and taste or, umami ( oxalate/salicylate may be other examples). MSG is in almost all processed foods, low-fat foods, and sugar-free foods. MSG is an example. But, ever since MSG, as a stand-alone ingredient, became a concern for consumers in the 1980’s, food makers switched to binding the MSG (and other forms of free glutamic acid) to other compounds. Therefore, they no longer had to list MSG as an ingredient, only the new compound, effectively hiding it in other ingredients. There are many ways to do this so common names are “spices”, “natural flavors”, “maltodextrin”, “carriggeean” (sp?), “pea protein”, anything “hydrolyzed”, etc, etc, etc.. Search the web for “other names for MSG” and you’ll get many results. Basically, it comes down to avoiding as many processed foods as possible, all “non-clear” alcohols (if a drinker) and foods that are excessively high in “free” glutamic acid, such as stewed tomatoes. “Self-NutritionalData .com (or org) is a site where you can search any food for it’s complete nutritional profile, even by brands. On that site, search for the food and ingredients then, under “amino acids” category for glutamic acid levels. I’ve found that reducing these ingredients has reduced my PLMD significantly. I tried an elimination diet for 6 months but it is pretty difficult to maintain as these ingredients are so ubiquitous in our food supply. I’ve settled for “good enough”. Other ingredients that make my legs go completely waky are phenylalanine (Aspartame), Soy Letchitin and “malted” anything (like all beers).
It’s important to note that getting one significant dose of these substances makes my PLMD worse for several days so, it takes some time to reduce the levels in your system as you eliminate foods. Also important that this refers to “free” glutamic acid and not to foods (like wheat) where the glutamate is “bound” to proteins. It takes some time to figure this out but think you’ll notice significant improvements.
I’ve been doing this for about 15 years and it was satisfying that in 2017 (?) there was a study done (by Allen and Early I think) in which there was determined to be a link between brain glutamate levels and RLS. I’ll try to post that study here.
Couldn’t find that study readil but here is a related one, probably even more significant as it suggests that a general “over-excitation” or impaired “calming” in the brain through multiple neurotransmitters is at the root of RLS and, likely, PLMD.
Thanks for sharing this information. By how much would you say it improved your PLMD - both during the 6 month elimination period and now the "good enough" approach?
I would guess about 50% improvement. Objectively, the number of PLMS during the night did decreased somewhat (20–30% based on videos) but it was the intensity or strength of the PLMS that decreased most significantly. To a point that it became difficult to see them. So, I bought a better camera and verified that they were still occurring, just not as strong.
Subjectively, my daytime sleepiness improved about 50% as well. Before the diet I could only work 2-4 hrs without a nap and soon after beginning the diet I was able to work 5-7 hrs.
I was so sick the RLS that I got scare never happened for bad and in desperation I googled it and I found out that 2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar and 1 tablespoon of organic honey can help I have those products and immediately I took a cup and in less than 10 minutes the jerkiness stopped and also rubbed my legs with the vinegar and I’ve been doing every day and still working and I was really surprised something so simple it could help and also taking high doses of magnesium supplements
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