Having just reading about the coronavirus and if the hospital's ICU are full the dr's have been told to make a decision on who gets the ventilator the old or the young people , what are your thoughts on this if you had a loved one in this situation. Clive x
To die or not to die: Having just... - Positive Wellbein...
Positive Wellbeing During Self-Isolation
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To die or not to die
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A difficult decision obviously for the doctors to make and one that can go wrong. My view would be first to summarise their health conditions and see who had a better chance of survival. Depending also on the age of the elder concerned if they were strong enough to fight it. A tough choice.
At age 75, having been self-isolating since mid-February, the only way I am going to catch coronavirus is when I go to buy groceries. I have no choice, so once a week I put myself in danger. I also won't have a choice if I then get it badly enough to be hospitalised and then have my likely recovery weighed against that of another patient. How long do we have to live with this lack of support?
Have you no local help with your shopping Maggie ? Whereabouts are you ?
Thankyou, Chezz123, Since Thursday I have got a slot at Sainsbury's and now, today, we have volunteers. I am on the Essex Suffolk border. Things are looking up.
Nice one crikey! we couldn`t be much further apart I`m up in Ayrshire in Scotland stay safe and take care
I trust the NHS who are doing a marvellous job during this crisis and know the health professionals will do their utmost to assist all!
I think it should solely be based on need. Age, pre existing conditions are not necessarily an indication of poor outcomes. Yesterday we heard of a young boy with no pre existing conditions who sadly died and today the news was about a nearly 99 year old who is recovering nicely.
Having said all of that the aim of the game is to get enough ventilators so that doctors do not have to make these decisions.
With imports and Dyson et al let us just hope that this will be achieved.
We need to stay positive in times like this and not cause unnecessary worry especially on a positive well being forum.
All the more reason to do as we're told and reduce the number of people who get sick, and at least slow down the rate at which we get sick so these decisions don't have to be taken. "Trust in God and keep your powder dry." We can keep our powder dry - stay well!
bobbybobbAmbassador
There has been talk about putting CPAP, Continuous Positive Airway Pressure, back into production. This is non invasive ventilation. Easy to use. Will be an additional breathing aid that will save lives for people suffering from the severe effects of Covid-19. Not as good as a ventilator but non the less, can be produced in large numbers fast, can act as another piece of equipment in the fight against the virus. everyone would want their family member to be given a chance unless it was futile. xx
in reply to bobbybobb
Hi
What a brilliant idea let's hope they start using it again. Take care and stay safe. Love and hugs Lynne xxxx 😘
Hi Lynne, yes I hope they start using them. They where used in hospitals for many years and very effective for respiratory disorders and helped keep some people from needing invasive ventilation in intensive care. ☺☺☺
in reply to bobbybobb
It would certainly help everyone, patients and drs alike. Stay safe. Love and hugs Lynne xxxx 😘
Not a CPAP a reverse engineered re built specially modified generic of an original. A totally different machine see the tech spec . on gov.co.uk
I have a CPAP for OSAS (Obstructive Sleep Apnoea Syndrome) a totally different concept.
The newly invented are a hospital magnitude and based on a central control system with a direct oxygen feed unlike a CPAP or APAP or BPAP which all just pump air in to inflate the Lungs only.
MidoriVisually impaired
I'm so glad that I do not have to make these decisions. It is when we are faced with this pandemic and we realise that these sort of choices have to be made that doctors hate.
Nobody wants to condemn another helpless person to death, but the choice should be on their likelihood of recovery, rather than their age. There is a balance to be found, what will their quality of life be, considering all their medical problems.
Considering the elderly (including me at 72), there are also the disabled, the Cancer and Heart patients, and folk with inherited diseases, folk with Down's syndrome, Cystic fibrosis, Muscular Dystrophy, and so on. If we make these decisions, where do we stop? The Nazis were making these decisions in the 1930s, but not based on whether somebody would recover, but on whether they would be considered as human beings!
Back in the 1950s and 60s, when we had the ever-looming threat of Nuclear war, there was an organisation called Civil Defence, who were taught to make such heartbreaking decisions, but these were for folk with Radiation Sickness. A really horrific death faced these victims, as there were no Ventilators, except the huge Iron Lungs, used mainly for people with Polio, and few of them.
Today, medicine has advanced immensely, but Governments worldwide are still not prepared to meet the diseases head on, as has been seen all across the world. Not just Covid 19, but Ebola, SARS, MERS, Bird Flu, Asian flu, all the way back to the Spanish Flu in 1918. We can DNA Sequence now, so isolating the virus and bringing out a vaccine should be far easier than previously, and there are many laboratories working on them, but still the Powers that Be are unwilling to commit to fight pandemics, and stocking the PPE and other protective equipment required. I really don't know the answer.
Cheers, Midori
Excellent post , it's not about who should and shouldn't have a chance it's about those poor dr's who are under extreme pressure who are going to have to make these decisions it's bad enough after your loved ones have passed away . What about hospital's closing departments for everyone to travel nearly twenty miles away to another hospital that's another chance you take with life or death in a lot of case's , the trouble with this country is we only act after when we have to and then it's to late .
weegmack in reply to
Well I’m having to get a breast lump checked out on Monday at my local hospital. So that department isn’t closed to me. Right now I couldn’t give a stuff about Covid because I could be facing much worse
Sending you good luck wishes for Monday, I beat breast cancer 6 yrs ago, PM me if you need to, love and hugs xxxxxx
Thank you ♥️. You’re so brave. I went today and it’s all ok. This is my third mammogram (sore!). Two consultants had a look and are happy that it’s normal, hormonal breast tissue. It’s something I’ve had for about 10 years now. It’s a mix of cysts that fill up and drain and scar tissue. But benign and no need for further action. Xxxx
in reply to weegmack
Thinking of you and sending positive vibes your way. Sending lots of love ❤️ and hugs 🤗your way. Lynne Xxxx 😘
Hi Longsider,
I completely agree with Jerry, that this is a rather negative thing on a forum which is trying to promoting positivity. There are, absolutely, fast paced changes happening all the time and ventilators are being produced as fast as can possibly be achieved, and through the good will of companies who stepped up to the plate to help provide them by repurposing manufacturing lines.
So rather than speculate that some people might not get the help they need, I'd far rather dwell on the marvellous people who have reacted so swiftly to help the situation by providing those things we have shortages of.
Take care and have a good day.
in reply to
Hi Callendersgal , you are completely right I shouldn't have posted it on this forum as it comes across as doom and gloom and that's the last thing we need right , it's just that when I read the article it hit me and do apologize to everyone who it offended . I just like to make a last point that dr's , nurses, cleaners and all the other NHS workers do a fantastic job each and every day .
lgd333 in reply to
Hi Lonsider... Reading the article makes one wonder what would happen in reality. I must admit I would also query the information given. I don't think all were offended, but know that our NHS, doctors, nurses and all other staff are doing a heroic job at this time! Please help them also!
Oh gosh Longsider, no need to apologise. I'm only glad you've been diverted from going down a gloomy path that would only end up causing you more suffering. I can only join you wholeheartedly in praising absolutely everyone who is working in the NHS. Thanks so much for your post. It's actually made my day that you now seem to be feeling more positive. Take care and don't succumb to those dark thoughts we all have. Instead come here and enjoy being buoyed up! 🌈⭐️☀️
Chezz123 in reply to
How long is a piece of string and whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath "first do no harm"
This is particularly relevant to me since I have COPD. By which premise I have had my NHS Scotland letter and would seem to be the last to receive a respirator ( low survival probability) but who really knows ? I have a CPAP Machine that maybe could be adapted to the new generation reverse engineered model by UCHL and Mercedes ?
I will prefer to ISOLATE ABSOLUTE and if I get sick with the old Coronavirus I`ll stay home and die here if need be.
MY ONLY HOPE IS NEVER TO SUCCUMB TO COVID 19. #
Help me by staying in at home
? Anyone help here ?
Coronavirus .........does the corona bit relate to the heart as in coronary??????????????
just a thought
in reply to Chezz123
Hi Chezz123,
Well I very much hope that, despite your challenges, you'll come through all of this as safe and as well as you can be. You are giving yourself the best chance by isolating as much as you possibly can.
As I understand it, coronavirus would refer to its crownlike shape rather than coronary, which is a term for the arteries around the heart. If you look at the enlarged shape of the virus it does roughly speaking look crown shaped.
I hope you are managing to enjoy your day, and best wishes.
Chezz123 in reply to
Thanks Callendersgal
I`m just having a rant and as I understand it the line has been re drawn to say no going out at all no mixing with other households ..even if they are your immediate family....although Police Scotland wont even do anything they think it is a personal choice ????
Not any more
in reply to Chezz123
That's ok Chezz123, We all need and enjoy an occasional rant. It's part of the purpose of the community. Letting off steam! 🙏
Corona means crown. This is from Wikipedia: "The name coronavirus is derived from the Latin corona, meaning "crown" or "halo", which refers to the characteristic appearance reminiscent of a solar corona around the virions (virus particles) when viewed under two-dimensional transmission electron microscopy, due to the surface being covered in club-shaped protein spikes."
The word coronary also derives from "crown" but it's completely coincidental in this case.
Stay safe!
How long is a piece of string and whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath "first do no harm"
This is particularly relevant to me since I have COPD. By which premise I have had my NHS Scotland letter and would seem to be the last to receive a respirator ( low survival probability) but who really knows ? I have a CPAP Machine that maybe could be adapted to the new generation reverse engineered model by UCHL and Mercedes ?
I will prefer to ISOLATE ABSOLUTE and if I get sick with the old Coronavirus I`ll stay home and die here if need be.
MY ONLY HOPE IS NEVER TO SUCCUMB TO COVID 19. #
Help me by staying in at home
? Anyone help here ?
Coronavirus .........does the corona bit relate to the heart as in coronary??????????????
just a thought
No, Corona is the name for the shape of the virus. Under a microscope, it looks like a crown and corona means crown. Corona virus is at least a common cold, at worst a serious respiratory virus. Covid-19 is a respiratory virus, which means anyone in an at-risk group like yourself, is at a higher risk of becoming quite ill with it. You’re doing the right thing by staying at home as much a possible and being extremely careful when you have to get groceries. I really feel for you - this is really tough. Do you have anyone who can shop for you? Xx
I REPEAT IGNORANCE IS BLISS
WATCH THIS PLEASE ? What a great guy with the MOST positive helpful message to the WORLD .....if only they would listen for some fell on hard ground....copy and paste the link for a REALITY CHECK Guys
I honestly do not wish to offend anyone at allor in any way appear negative., but feel I must gently raise the point that medical expertise does not automatically bestow ethical expertise. They are not the same thing; and our true admiration for the heroic work of the doctors and nurses etc should not confuse us.
Hidden - have you ever thought about a career in politics?
Where did you read this? Because that’s not what’s happening....
Good reply Hidden
Hi
Yes, I agree. What a tough decision to have to make, let's hope that there are enough ventilators very soon and then that's one less decision that these drs have to make. I do think we are very lucky to have the NHS and not have to think will my insurance cover it, I hope the countries where this happens are giving health care free of charge at the moment, I know it's taken out of people's wages over here but I'm sure that doesn't cost half as much as having to pay an insurance company.
Sorry, I do tend to go off on a tangent as Zoonie knows🤣I hope you all don't mind!! I hope you all stay safe. Love and hugs to each and every one of you. Lynne xxxx 😘
OSTRICH !!! comes to mind Jerry awe bless
Unfortunately this is the reality. Not enough equipment, too many people who need the care.
So it becomes triage. Who has the best chance of survival? That becomes the decision. The resources available goes to those with the best chance.
Flattening the curve, as they say, helps to not overwhelm the medical system to the point of having to make these choices. Imagine how hard it is on those making the decision?
They will be scarred for life:
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