Something that has been puzzling me since I was diagnosed 10 days ago is why we are advised to start taking omeprazole and alendronic acid before we are sure we need it. Having read about the side effects I’m really not happy taking either so am holding off until I know more. Even though aspirin and ibuprofen have, in the past, given me stomach ache I have had no stomach ache with prednisolone so far. I have also, in the past, been told that I have dense, strong bones. That may have changed, of course, with age but until my dexa scan in two weeks I won’t know if I really need the AA ?
omeprazole and alendronic acid ??: Something that... - PMRGCAuk
omeprazole and alendronic acid ??
Hi,When I was first diagnosed my rheumatologist asked my GP to prescribe omeprazole,Aladronic acid and Vitamin D plus calcium.This seems to be the standard that rheumatologists follow without taking into account individual patients needs.I had never had acid problems so decided to wait and see if I needed Omeprazole.Never offered a dexa scan so said no to AA.Spend lots of time outdoors so decided against Vit D and calcium.i did have a call from GP pharmacy telling me off for not following their advice but I decided to follow my instincts.I have had no ill effects from not following their advice but I must stress this is only my opinion,it may not work for everyone.I do like to keep my meds to a minimum not wishing to take something I do not need.
I had a call from the pharmacy querying why I wasn’t taking Lansoprazole. I told him why…no gastric issues, etc and in his report he stated, “The patient was coherent and spoke in complete sentences.” Made my day 😂😂.
🤣🤣 that’s funny but also hurts. I’m resigned to being viewed as an old biddy when I feel no different inside. Amuses me when asked if I’ve got the internet - I was using computers when we were working on punch cards!
It would be funny if it weren’t also a tad tragic! My favourite is when a kind person asks “do you have access to a mobile phone?” - when I’m clearly phoning them from one ! 😂
Essential to retain a sense of humour 🧘♀️
To be fair - I have 2 phones, one is an ancient "burner" phone (though really no such thing here, you can't buy a SIM card in Italy without registering your tax number and all the systems for tax, vehicle licensing and all else are cross linked) and I did used to take a degree of satisfaction in saying no, I couldn't send them an image of the problem!!! I also. on principle, get quite stroppy about so-called intuitive stuff that is FAR from intuitive. I've never used punch cards but we had home computing in the early 80s and I ran my business by email fairly early on. So it isn't as if I don't know how to use a computer - but there are a lot of people with a mobile phone who can't use 90% of its features. Or like me, don't WANT to use half of them. And the keyboards are so b£**dy fiddly.
As they keep say - we’re all different 👍. I love my phone. I’ve stopped carrying a handbag. I pay for everything in wallet. All my cards and store cards are on it. Use it as a sat nav and the interactive ordnance survey map is a godsend for walks etc. How did I ever manage without it?? 😂
I've quite got the hang of my phone - but not ready to use it to pay yet, Not available here from my bank actually but I only have one card that I use here, No store cards, not much of a "thing" here, My car sat nav is awful but haven't worked out how to use google maps - and I drove from northern Italy to Scotland without sat nav! Round here google is AWFUL!!!
They say that using GPS causes part of our brain to atrophy. I don't know how that would matter to people who can't find their way out of a paper bag anyway, but for folk like me who are slightly directionally challenged it's probably best to keep on using the little grey cells.
My daughter used GPS to find her way to a job interview in another city, allowing herself masses of extra time. The instructions were so faulty she ended up being a couple of minutes late and so stressed and, as she put it, off her game, she did not get the job. They called her in for the summer to replace the person who had actually got the job because he was off sick, so she must have been high up. Big tech is not all it's cracked up to be. Although I suppose humans grumbled about written language replacing memorization the same way....
What I dislike about sat nav is that it is fiddly to see the overview at any point. I always have a map in the car with me. And the sat nav in the car is desperately inflexible. Where the old Garmin got the message after a short time that I had left the route it was following and looked at the logical alternative, the car doesn't adapt, tells you to do a u-turn on a motorway and insists you turn into non-existent roads!! And it is a sod to turn off - so I rarely turn it on unless desperate. OTOH, they shoud be so useful when alone as I always am and my daughter with ADHD says it saves her sanity!!
yes and don't make my mistake of having the Garmin and my phone giving me directions... like listening to teenagers arguing in the back of the car!
Hahahaha!!! We used to play games with the Garmin but it was quite good. We'd switch it on to see how it worked when we were going somewhere we didn't NEED it but wasn't quite the logical route and see how long it took her to realise whatever we were doing, it wasn't going to involve a u-turn. It really was quite impressive. OTOH, the one that came with my VW California is appalling. The Brenner Pass road runs immediately next to the motorway over it and I usually forgo the joys of the motorway and save the toll but the sat nav tells me to turn into roads that just don't exist! And it is such a pain to switch off.
HiPro, have you considered using the Waze app for navigating. It lets you know what’s happening in realtime and will redirect you if there’s a problem ahead. We use it all the time now on our travels. You’ll need a holder for your phone on the dashboard so it’s hands free but they’re quite cheap to buy.🌸
Just don't lose it or you won't know who you are!
Me too CocoaChanel 😊
I also use it daily as a notepad, to keep a record of term dates, holidays etc that I can look up anywhere. And as a ‘radio’ for listening to music and podcasts. And as a magnifier for looking at small print etc. And it’s linked to y hearing aids so I can use it to alter volume and tone. And it’s a torch.
It’s even a phone! Invaluable 🙌x
👍I felt quite excited last night thinking of all the things I use my phone for. Feeling a bit tired today so they’re not coming to me quite so readily. But here goes: FaceTiming my daughter and grandchildren in Canada, Whatsapping family and friends, booking train tickets, plane tickets, theatre tickets and storing them, seeing live arrivals , departures and journeys, booking hotels and campsites, googling when I need information, watching YouTube videos on how to do just about anything, listening to podcasts, looking at the weather and tide tables and navigation apps (we sail). And as you say just phoning people - we’ve done away with our landline. Going for a nap now having exhausted myself. 🤪
Love this CC 👏And can only say, me too! (apart from the navigation app, sailing is and always was way beyond me….)
Have a good rest now ☺️
That did cause me to chuckle also.My own experience came In January this year when I had a Pet/CT scan.I hopped onto the bed easily enough in front of the radiographer but upon finishing the scan he asked me if I needed help getting off.Had I really aged that much in 45 minutes,I think not.
Very much our point! The Recommendations/guidelines mention them with caveats - but many doctors, especially in the UK and USA, just automatically write scripts for them in the belief that prevention is better than cure. Here in Italy, there isn't the same emphasis on the PPIs unless you are taking other medication that require them (NSAIDs for example). And we get very regular and easy access to dexascans.
The problem with both bone density and gastric inflammation is that you may not notice a problem, I have never taken a bisphosphonate after a dexascan at the start showed my bone density was fine - after 15 years on pred, last year a spinal x-ray showed a compression fracture. Another member tangocharlie developed multiple spinal compression fractures a year or two ago. She had also never taken a bisphosphonate as HER dexascan results were - and are - like mine apparently OK. They don't always tell the whole story.
Mindless doctors who think PMR = steroids + Omeprazole + Alendronic Acid without questioning it. I had big fights with my GP on Alendronic Acid, every time I talked to him, as I had a good Dexascan result. Each time I used to think I had won, but then discovered I had not. Luckily a rheumatologist backed me up eventually and my doctor has gone silent.
I wasn’t prescribed omeprazole at diagnosis, and never had any problems throughout nearly eight years on pred. However, my GP did prescribe Alendronic Acid, and made no mention of a dexa scan. After some eighteen months on this Forum, I had learned much more about some the issues with Alendronic Acid, and pestered my GP to come off them. About that time, I was on 7mg of pred, and the GP relented. To the best of my knowledge,, I have no problems with my bones.
I wasn’t prescribed either calcium or vit d, but did, for a short while, take dissolvable calcium tablets. I subsequently decided that my diet was providing enough calcium.
why we are advised to start taking omeprazole and alendronic acid before we are sure we need it
Simple answer, because it recommends that in guidelines.. and that seems to be one thing that doctors read!
Many don’t need either, so definitely wait for DEXA scan results re AA . As for PPI, unless you normally have gastric issues then just take Pred with food, or in a spoonful of yogurt.
I take Vit d3 and did before my PMR diagnosis due to being deficient. I think most people are recommended to take some d3
In Nova Scotia I was never offered stomach protection, but the pharmacy in particular makes a big deal about taking pred with food. Have never had stomach problems with pred.
There was talk of AA but I insisted on DXA scan first, which in those days only took a few months to get, and I was told I had "low bone mass" (osteopenia) and AA was recommended. I had done a lot of reading by then and refused, following my own plan to maintain bones, and a follow-up scan a year later showed I'd improved my bone density enough that the recommendation for AA was dropped.
healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...
Interested in how you managed to do that without meds? Exercise, diet?
Good morning HeronNS hope you are keeping well.
Many years ago when I first started on my PMR journey you were one of the people who helped me with my diet and excerise and I always value your advice.
Since having my HA I was advised not to take Vitamin K2 and Magnesium as they say it interacts with my medication.
I still take vitamin D3 and keep to my diet as much as I can.
I was told after my last dexa scan to go on AA but I refused because of the side effects , but I am hoping my next bone scan will have improved.
Since being on this forum and having people like yourself and PMRpro and DorsetLady I am learning to stick up for myself against my GP and rheumatologist as I find they don’t have half of the knowledge you do.
So thank you.
Oh dear. What is HA?
What medication would Vitamin K2 and magnesium interfere with? That is actually very concerning, Is this a blanket ban, or more a case of not taking them within a certain number hours of each other? I know Vitamin K is not advised with warfarin, but this is more significant with Vitamin K1 which has more effect on blood coagulation than K2 does.
It's possible to get sufficient magnesium from diet as it is to green plants what iron is to animals. We often consider a magnesium supplement simply to balance the extra calcium we are taking when supplementing calcium as extra calcium displaces mgnesium. That's why I take magnesium, separately from the calcium.
But Vitamin K2 is so lacking in the modern diet it's much harder to obtain through food, although we can get some in things like fermented foods or products from some animals, ones that have never been grain fed, not even for "finishing." I don't think I'd be in the (apparently) good place I am with my bones were it not for the K2.
What is HA ?
Good question - would say maybe heart attack…But also a good reason why profiles/bios need to be kept up to date - with all health occurrences. 😊
Mine has become a veritable novel!
Nothing wrong with that😊.. at least it gives anyone really all the facts. Makes it so much easier to reply with suggestions…
Hello HeronNS
Iam sorry I have not replied to you before now but I have not been well,and yesterday I had blood tests to see if I have ovarian cancer.
They have arranged a emergency appointment with a gynaecologist so I will find out for sure.
Best wishes for Christmas
Sorry to hear that… hope you get good news from appointment..
Please let us know..
Thank you hope you have a lovely Christmas with your family 🙏
All the best - and very much hope it isn't.
Thank you best wishes for Christmas and hope you have a good time with your family 🙏🎄
Same to you - though it will be hard with this in the background won't it?
It will but we are going to our sons and we have not told him yet so will have our grandson to take our minds off it.
I can’t see telling them yet and spoiling their Christmas will achieve anything and a few glasses of whisky will help(his wife Scottish but sadly her died this year so it will be a bit sad ).
If you don’t have results, then agree no point in raising the subject.. no one can do anything.
But if your son is anything like mine, you’ll probably get told off afterwards for not telling him sooner.. But mothers know best😊
Sure your grandson will distract you.. 🌸
Thank you, yes my son will really tell me off .
I know I’m looking on the dark side,but if it’s my last Christmas I want to enjoy it, as I am sure my DIL will be feeling upset as it’s her first Christmas without her dad.
Have a lovely Christmas DorsetLady and many thanks for all your advice yoy have given me❤️🙏
Management of ovarian cancer has improved a lot - and it depends what type it is! But it is always good to live every day as if there might not be another and make the most of it!
thank you PMRpro that is what I will do if the worst comes .
I have had cyst removed from one of my ovaries and fallopian tubes in the past so I am not worried about that it’s that the doctor is concerned about cancer this time after seeing the ultrasound scans.
Thank you also for your advice and help through my PMR journey it’s always appreciated and valued.❤️🙏
Happy New Year PMRpro.
I went to see a consultant who was very kind .
He told me I had a 16cm cyst near my abdomen and also a blood test results I had he said was normal,but that did not mean I did not have cancer.
He wants me to have an MRI scan as soon as possible to give him more information,because I have had a lot of operations, taking out my ovaries and one of my fallobian tubes they are not sure about what I have left.
I explained what operation I knew I had done but he said the scan seemed to think I had an ovaries left,but I think I had both out so the MRI will show what I have left.
Also he wants to take the cyst out by doing a endoscopy and he said they could be a risk .
I have faith in this consultant and my husband did he really explained everything but, I must admit I am glad my OH was with me as I did not take it all the information in.
So it all rest on the results of my MRI to see if ihave any cancer.
I hope you are keeping well.🌼
That is comforting - a kind consultant is so important, My daughter had a 10cm cyst - she also has endometriosis so they are linked I think. Not endoscopy - laparoscopy I imagine. And they can be a bit problematical when you have had surgery before because the anatomy inside is different and bit stick to each other and mess up the view.
You never remember it all - even OH will have missed or not understood some. But the MRI will answer some of the questions - how soon will you get one?
Thank you PMRpro the consultant said he has put it throw urgent that was at New Years Eve and he will see me when he gets the information to discuss what will happen, he said he needs to talk to some other surgeons incase they are needed.
It’s funny your daughter has endometriosis because that’s why I had my womb taken away the gynaecologist at the time said I was lucky to get pregnant at all.
I really appreciate you taking time to answer my posts.x
She is waiting for a hysterectomy too - they did a lot of something 3 or 4 years ago in York which required 3 surgeons be present for an all-day op though I think the colorectal one wasn't required in the end. But she has some kidney problems that the then urologist informed her were "in her head". She has now been referred to Middlesborough - who seem rather more informed - and has just had a urodynamics test proving her complaint was indeed real! Her BP is very high so we are hoping that that is due to the kidney problem so she will get a date reasonably soon now he has the info he wanted before even seeing her to discuss what he will do - which does seem sensible. Just wait and see now.
I am sorry to hear that I think they listen more now and I hope all goes well for her.
I do hope this consultant will do whatever I need doing as he never spoke down to me listened and repeated anything I did not understand,he was amazed that they did not do a full hysterectomy at the time, but Miss Butterworth who was a lovely lady did not want me to go straight into the change as she called it but it would have saved me a lot of trouble and to cap it all nobody seems to know where my notes are so I am looking forward to seeing how many “bits” they find left.
A hysterectomy without removing the ovaries in endometriosis is not much use - my daughter has been in drug-induced menopause to reduce the symptoms anyway which is even worse if you ask me. And she still has the damage that needs repaired.
I think it is better now - but her story started at 19 with a middle-eastern male telling her to go and have babies - she had just started uni! She claims she told me - I can't imagine she did, he'd have had an ear-full ...
And rightly so the ………..
I do hope your daughter finally gets the help she needs and in this day and age we need more good gynaecologist who are more understanding I have had two female gynaecologist who I would gladly have shot because of their lack of understanding and rude manner even my OH was disgusted.
It is a common theme - I don't get why women often make such hard gynaes. I only had 2 males - both of whom were lovely and very empathetic. The second one looked like the stereotypical Greek god!!! His wife worked in the practice on reception ...
Hi Cocoa, I'm taking the AA after very much consideration, listening to the bone professor at our PMR AGM and my GP who had PMR and osteoporosis as a relatively young man. He still takes AA in an effort to build his bones. My dexa scan came a few weeks after taking the AA so there would have been no effect of AA on the result, which thankfully was a good one. However, I decided that protecting my bones had to be a priority as fractures when you are older can actually be catastrophic, so that was my choice. The side effects sound frightening but they tend to be for those on regular infusions because of chemotherapy so much much higher doses than a tablet once per week. Also, the dexa scan is limited as a complete diagnostic tool.
I stopped taking the PPI as gave me chronic diarrhoea and refused an alternative, been fine taking it with breakfast and yoghurt. Good luck in your choices, we are all different.
Hi there, I took Omeprazole for four and and a bit years without any problems at all. I also to my Pred, very early, with Greek Yogurt. Doc suggested AA but I asked for a DEXA scan first, that came back very good, and it wasn't suggested again. Doc also organised DEXA scans every two years all of which came back ok. However, recent investigations do show that DEXA's arn't as reliable a test as we thought., so it has to be your decision.
Thanks to everyone who shared here. It’s really useful to read about your experiences - helps to form a clearer picture in my mind. I’ve decided not to take omeprazole or AA. I was, previous to my diagnosis, taking various supplements so am continuing with that but have increased Ca, D3, K2, omega3, to maximum safe dose. I cut down drastically on carbohydrates a few years ago and stopped refined sugar products totally at the same time. The one thing I’m doing new is stopping all alcohol - haven’t had any alcohol since my diagnosis. I haven’t seen alcohol mentioned much re PMR. Does anyone have any info/advice?
A lot of us still drink alcohol. The only difference for me was red wine didn’t taste the same and I changed to white or rose with no ill effects.
There isn’t any hard and fast rule- alcohol isn’t ruled out with Pred or PMR. Some find it helps relax, others find they cannot tolerate it at all or less than before.
I had GCA, with high does of Pred so gave it up initially, but went back to the occasional drink as I reduced the doses. Can’t say it made much difference either way to be honest.
Must admit, my taste buds have changed re wine/spirits, but that’s probably age, as I’ve been free of GCA and Pred for 8 years.
Like Bridge31, my tastes changed, no more heavy reds or very dry whites. But that was PMR not pred - I'd had it for 5 years before I got pred. Rose is my tipple of choice with dinner - and prosecco of course living in almost prosecco land. And an Aperol spritz in the sun ...
I think you are smart to ask questions and avoid meds you may not need. I am in an Osteoporosis Support Group where many patients are doing okay on supplements and weight-bearing exercise, however most of them aren't on steroids which can contribute to bone loss. I have had fractures, but both were from severe falls. I have refused meds to date, but I am getting a referral to an Osteoporosis Clinic for proper testing, assessment and suggested therapies before I make a decision about osteoporosis meds. My one Dexa scan showed osteoporosis in the spine and osteopenia in one hip, but I am taking supplements and doing balance and weight-bearing exercises following Brick House Bones on You Tube. Dr. Lisa is a physiotherapist who has osteoporosis herself and she is easy to follow and explains everything, plus moves to avoid.
I understand that bone loss mostly occurs during the first 6 months of taking Prednisone, but my Doctor never mentioned that and I fractured my about 6 months into my PMR journey and got my first dexa scan after the surgery. I wish I had started preventative measures when I was first diagnosed with PMR as you are....I also wish I had discovered this forum earlier aas well. I rely rely on it now and have received very helpful advice and direction from the wonderful volunteers.
Alcohol is mentioned with regards to Osteoporosis though, as something to limit or avoid. I am doing that and don't miss it. I have the very occasional drink on special occasions.
I was always fairly abstemious but as the years have gone by and especially in the last handful I barely drink at all any more, and never spirits, only the occasional beer or sherry. Family used to serve wine with dinner quite frequently but I note they do not do so much any more. This is since Health Canada came out with a statement that no amount of alcohol is good for one, and severely cut back the amount they suggested was safe for the average man or woman to drink - e.g. two drinks a week rather than two a day! Apparently we were previously a nation of tipplers
Also, more relevant to your question, I find alcohol can trigger headache, and that didn't seem to change one way or the other with PMR/pred.
We have normally had a glass of red wine with dinner. Wondering how much that contributed to my PMR as I have recently read red wine is inflammatory? Actually find I don’t miss it so I’ve started to stock up with alcohol free wine, gin and prosecco. I’ll be drinking buddies with my grandsons rather than my son-in-law this Christmas 🤶
It's interesting that our local wineries are coming out with non-alcoholic wines! To my mind that's a bit like sugar-free soda pop or decaffeinated coffee (why not drink fruit juice or water or a herbal tea?) but to each his own! Latest is creating elegant and tasty non-alcoholic cocktails, which I think is very creative idea.
as I have recently read red wine is inflammatory?
That seems to contradict most information -
“Red wine contains a compound called resveratrol that may have anti-inflammatory effects”
and this (although it may be biased 😊) -
Do tell me if you find one that is worth drinking!! Not because I want to give up drinking wine - perish the thought, PMR took away enough of what I enjoyed - but because if I have a drink, I don't drive ...
👍 will do but you’ll have to wait until Christmas. I bought the zero alcohol so as to join in with family and to avoid the inevitable “just one won’t hurt”. If it looks like wine, gin, prosecco everyone’s happy.
I used to bring a bottle of sparkling water to staff parties in the good old days so I could have something in my hand, also to avoid alcohol in bloodstream, however little, when driving home.
I took a day trip over to Austria a few weeks ago and the Giant Spar in Lienz, which makes the biggest poshest Waitrose look downmarket, had a BOGOF on a German sekt so I got a bottle of each version, one is alcohol-free but a whole bottle is a bit much for one!!! Opening a bottle of wine for it to last a week is one thing ...
I was down at Lake Garda at the beginning of November and the day I came home I sat by the port with an alcohol-free house aperitivo instead of my usual Aperol spritz - a mix of juices and I think a San bitter which was absolutely lovely! Hate to think of the sugar mind! As HeronNS says - it is the bitters that make it,
Hopefully you'll find something. Here the effort really is being made to provide a drink which has the same sort of mouth feel, the same satisfaction, that traditional wines have. Heard an interview with a creator of non-alcoholic cocktaails (he'd won some sort of award) where he stressed the importance of bitters, so it's that sort of thing they are trying to find, making sure the flavour of a non-alcoholic version still provides the same pleasure we're used to.
Incidentally, the new wines are not going to be cheaper!
Indeed! It is beginning to change here, you used to be looked at as if you had 3 heads if you looked for non-alcoholic. Been alcohol-free bitters here for ages but they aren't quite bitter enough for me. And a whole bottle you discover isn't your taste is a pricey mistake.
I'm also on Alendronic acid and omeprazole. Never had gastric problems but my understanding is that they are to prevent the problems caused by the steroids and provided not on them for years the benefit should outweigh the risk. We hope 🤞
I had been taking pred for 8 years, I have not taken lansoprazole or alendronic acid throughout my time,. I did have a dexa scan a couple of years ago and told I have have ostopenia, however I am underweight and this seems to be the problem not because I’m taking pred. However please be warned. I’ve recently had severe indigestion and problems coughing and choking on food, terrible abdo pain. It turned out I have hiatus hernia and erosive gastritis, both are treated with lansoprazole , I have to now take this drug, I don’t want to but the pain is terrible so I don’t have a choice.
Both Prednisone & Alendronic acid can cause stomach ulcers which you wouldn't feel until it had happened I think the warnings are not just about an upset stomach. My Mum had a stomach bleed because of it and now has to take omeprazole permanently.
Despite having problems with my stomach for many years - I wasn't offered Omeprazole! I don't think pred has increased existing problems at all. I was offered AA but a nurse friend who is retired but keeps her finger on the pulse and also on alternatives. She recommended Boron for bones so I have been taking that as an alternative. My 2 dexa scans have been fine so far and I also take Vit D3. I eat a lot of cheese etc.
Hi, when I started taking steroids I was recommended the AA. The private rheumatologist I saw told me that the worst bone loss happened in the first six month of steroid treatment and I could stop taking the AA once my Prednisolone dose is down to 5 mg. So, I took it prophylacticaly for the first eight months. He also told me that PPIs re no longer routinely prescribed so I didn’t take them until I needed them. The AA can be harsh on the stomach and I found I needed PPIs after a couple of months. Once I stopped the AA, I tapered off PPIs as well.
I found the combination of Calcium (ascorbate) and D3 which I was given on prescription problematic as it made me feel like I had a UTI so I started buying different brands and Calcium Citrate, which gave me no trouble.
You will hear stories of people who did or didn’t take the AA. This is their experience. You will be taking the risk either way, so you need to decide what that risk should be. It is your decision and it can be a difficult one. There is a lot you can do to protect your bones regardless of what else you choose to do. You will find some good advice on this forum.