B12, DNA, Cell Apoptosis and Immune response, or why we are sick, itchy and tired.

[Oneash]

I wrote this as an answer to another post, but thought it worth posting for all to see. I'm no scientist or medic, I'm just trying to understand some of the nitty gritty and interpret the jargon. Please do say if I've got it wrong or right.

'As I understand it vitamin B12 is essential for accurate DNA replication.

When DNA unzips and copies itself, errors can occur. If these are not fixed, mutation can be replicated. If errors are too great the cell dies - Apoptosis, if they don't you can have the start of cancer.

Thankfully, usually the body just cleans these dead cells away, with no inflammatory response, in fact in apoptosis cells can release soothing enzymes, so the immune system doesn't wake up.

But that unfortunately doesn't happen when the wrong sort of Caspase is activated.

This is where the science starts to go way over my head. nature.com/articles/s41418-...

Caspase is a form of protein that uses cystine to cleve peptide bonds, to break up dead cell structure. Some are calmed and some are stimulated by vitamin B12.

Too much Caspase - 3 and you provoke the immune system....... I think, do please tell me if I'm wrong!

Cystine is recycled from homocysteine in the liver in a process using vitamins B12, B9 and B6.

The immune system itself needs vitamin B12 to create 'killer' T cells.

Also...

"Vitamin B12 can be considered an endogenous negative regulator of nuclear transcription factor-κB (NFκB) through the regulation of nitric oxide, which plays a key role in regulating the immune response to infection."

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

So that can go someway to explain why inflammation is caused by vitamin B12 deficiency and can get worse after we finally get enough.

And we are tired out because B12 is needed to generate ATP, the energy for all bodily functions , in mitochondria.

(Human liver cells: Contain 1,000–2,000 mitochondria per cell

Heart muscle cells: Contain about 5,000 mitochondria per cell

Human egg cells: Contain the highest concentration of mitochondria per cell, with estimates ranging from 100,000 to 100,000,000 )

The more I go down the cobalamin rabbit hole the more I am amazed to see how it is used in every single complex function of our bodily processes. '

[deniseinmilden]

Superb, thank you!

You have managed to write out some of my understanding of things.

The next stage is that the processes that use B12 in every cell in our bodies, also use a huge range of other vitamins and minerals, which, if they are also in short supply, become the next limiting factor, so that we can still have vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms even if we do have enough of it, and don't have full deficiency symptoms of the thing that has become the limiting factor to the B12-utilising process.

Eg our B12 might not be being used optimally, so we have some B12d symptoms, even if we are supplementing effectively, if we are slightly short of vitamin C, even if it isn't enough to cause scurvy.

Multiply this effect up by all the vitamins and minerals and amino acids required for all the functions in every cell, and you start to realise what an amazing thing a living body is, and how important nutrition is!

It's way more than the simple macro nutrients of fat, protein, carbohydrate, fibre and water that is generally thorough of, isn't it!

Thank you for your time and thought in writing.

[Nackapan]

Thankyou.Ive no idea what is right or wrong in your portrayal of these facts .

Alot of it I see how much sense it makes why we feel as we do .

I always like explanations so you've at least something to work with .

To provoke more interest of collating what others understand.

I was deflated by a neurologist telling me there was no quick fix when extremely ill.

Just keep having B12.

It could take years .

The later bq2 deficiency 'caught' ,the later the treatment 'we' do not know the eventual outcomes.

It will take time .

He was right .

He had b12 deficiency/PA himself and read every paper available.

He wax very clear about having B12 injections 💉 and to keep going with them.

He also did not fit the NHS treatment regime.

I went to him for migraines .

The third neurologist I had seen.

Pity I can't ask him to explain.

[Ipsofacto01]

This is so interesting. Thank you for taking the time to share.

[pitney]

Thank you👍

[Dylfan]

An impressive review of the mechanism and importance of B12 at cellular level.Thanks

[PlatypusProfit8077]

Wow, thanks for sharing! Our bodies really are incredible!

I often notice that I have an increase in symptoms a few days before my monthly (usually the 2 days before and the first day of) and wondered why. Obviously our eggs are already available but maybe the process of menstruation requires more B12 than the other phases (luteal etc)?