Hi all, I am a 41 white female. Ive been a vegetarian for 30 years and ive always had anemia in which I take iron tablets. Despite eating a healthy veggie diet by weight ballooned 10 years ago and I have not found a diet that helps me to lose weight I am now obese and i have diabetes which is diet controlled.
I have been going to my doctors as I have had 7 bouts of sinus problems and my glands are constantly raised. Finally after my salivary gland became infected they started to take me seriously and sent me for an ultrasound scan.
The scan showed the area around my ear to be perfectly fine, it however showed my thyroid gland is grossly heterogenious and there are thyroid nodules.
As a result I was sent for blood tests
Thyroid Function tests - normal
Liver Function tests - normal
Urea and electrolytes - normal
Bone profile - normal
FBC - Showed Mean Corpusc haemoglobin as low 25.6 and Red Cell Distribution as high 16.8%, rest of results normal
Iron overload studies showed serum c reative protein level as high 24mg, serum iron leve as low 7,5 umol/l, Percentage iron saturation low 10%
My GP is now on leave and there is no one to discuss my results with, I get very tired, lack energy, dizzy and my body aches and tingles but its not stopping me from working etc.
I also have a red eye at the moment, the optician thinks I have an auto immune disease (he is unaware of my recent tests)
My question why would my scans show one thing and my bloods for thyroid be ok? My GP is on leave and I go on holiday next week, im guessing im ok to go but would like to know what they are suspecting. Anyone have similar results and wants to guess what I have, im guessing an auto immune disease and uncontrolled anaemia...just wish I dont have to wait 6 weeks to get answers.
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jackso1983
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If you are a strict vegetarian , you can be suffering from B12 deficiency . Do you take a B12 supplement? B12 can only be obtained from animal products .
Pernicious Anaemia causes B12 deficiency, even if animal products are eaten . It is an autoimmune condition ., which can only be treated with B12 injections .
Autoimmune conditions rarely occur alone . Autoimmune thyroid condition is a very common accompanying condition to P.A.. There are over 100 Autoimmune conditions. !!
B 12 deficiency has many symptoms. which can overlap with other conditions .
Just a few things for you to consider which I hope are helpful . Best wishes .
There is an excellent thyroid group here on HealthUnlocked. If you post your thyroid blood test results on there, they will tell you if they are OK or not. ALWAYS give the ranges as well as the actual result and state what time of day the blood was taken. There is a reason for this as TSH ( for example) decreases throughout the day.
Do you know if a thyroid function (TSH) is part of a full blood count? Doc requested this along with a full blood count. In results I can’t see anything with TSH.
Often the lab will not do all the tests a GP requests. Really, for an accurate picture of your thyroid hormones you need Ft 4 tested as well as TSH and ideally Ft3 too.The TSH is pituitary measurement whereas the FT s measure actual thyroid hormones.
Many people on the thyroid forum have to get their own tests done privately ( easy to do, fingerprick option at home) because the NHS falls short of the mark.
Never accept a blood result as "fine" or "normal". Instead always get the actual value with units and reference range. You will then be able to sort any trends between blood tests, as well as being able to see whether a value is within reference range but at one extreme.
That should help you assess more clearly what might be an issue.
You can look up NICE guidance on many conditions online and that should help you learn what diagnostic tests and treatment you should be receiving.
Some people here have both pernicious anaemia (PA) and autoimmune thyroid conditions. Autoimmune conditions can sometimes be multiple ; so people with PA may also have Hashimoto's or Grave's disease, vitiligo, psoriasis. These are probably the most common, but as Wedgewood said, there are over 100.
So you may not have found the wrong group at all.
A "strict" vegetarian - not entirely sure what this means although it is often written in research papers so am assuming that it just means someone who actually is a vegetarian not someone who is but has the odd Nando's or bacon butty ! This of course would give you fewer opportunities for B12 in your diet -but you could still eat eggs, cheese and supplemented food/drink, like Special K and Kokomilk and/or have B12 tablets to supplement. It could also be interpreted to mean "vegan" and so in research, this should be less vague.
In any case, being vegetarian does not give you immunity from PA, so assume it is statistically as possible to have PA as it is for non-vegetarians. Doubt anyone is doing this research.
Three things that might be helpful:
1) Because there are people on this forum who have both PA and autoimmune thyroid disorders, you might get some useful help about thyroid conditions/results/tests. Marz was particularly helpful to me when I was looking for answers. Some of the thyroid tests are not available on the NHS.
2) Finding that you are B12 deficiency would not automatically mean you have PA, as there are several reasons for low B12. Having a medical history (personal/family)of autoimmune disease/s is an indicator. There is an Intrinsic Factor antibody (IFab) test - but only 40-60% of those with PA will get a positive result form this. So a single negative result cannot be used to rule out PA.
3) B12 deficiency can mean you can be prone to infection and not good at fighting off anything. I have had saliva gland problems since 2012, due to saliva duct strictures. Although I have had a procedure since to correct this, it still happens - especially if I get very hungry ! I also get sinus problems. An Oral Medicine consultant believes that an untreated gum abscess from 4yrs ago is the cause -and so now I'm awaiting a procedure (including biopsy) from periodontal department.
I agree with Nackapan that both B12 and folate should be tested. People with B12 deficiency can find they have problems maintaining levels of folate, ferritin and vitamin D too.
B12 deficiency/ PA may not be the answer (or part of it) for you, but hopefully you will get some help soon. Let us know.
I have been a vegetarian for about 45 years. I have had 3 negative IFab tests and have a functional B12 deficiency diagnosis. My family have many autoimmune conditions including B12 deficiency, psoriasis, vitiligo and Grave's disease.
I have no medical training, but there are a few scientists on the forum, including some who are very familiar with blood testing.
'3) B12 deficiency can mean you can be prone to infection and not good at fighting off anything. '
It makes my blood boil that these medical professionals do not know this, that initial b12 testing for diagnosis is not routinely done & that all kinds of issues can occur.
I had sepsis twice during the time my b12 deficiency was undiagnosed.
I remember so clearly my gynaecologist, who is a good doctor & an even better man saying -
You should be fighting this, I don't know how your body is not fighting this.
It is a definite public health scandal, this lack of knowledge.
B12 testing added to the FBC would make sense - as long as those already having B12 injections can get a "pass" on a retest.
Yes, and so much time and money wasted looking for something worse - simply because there is a lack of recognition of how bad B12 deficiency alone can be.
I sometimes check back in old diaries - and recall long-forgotten symptoms and severity of condition. Sometimes a post from another forum member here will remind me, too : "Oh, yes ! I remember what that felt like."
I used to call lesser symptoms/conditions names like "Pricklefoot" and "Hamsterface" by way of explanation. Pricklefoot quite suddenly made my eyes water and imagine was due to nerve damage, Hamsterface because of saliva duct strictures, blocking the flow of saliva from glands. (Note to self: don't read a restaurant menu when very hungry - especially when out with family! )
Some remain, most are gone now or make rare but inexplicable returns. Pricklefoot a thing of the past and occasional Hamsterface just gives me an excuse to eat when I feel like it. Pressure not pain and never longlasting.
An automatically-appearing note on blood test form would be useful:
"Retesting of B12 after treatment is not advised. If patient unresponsive to B12 injections, MMA test advised. "
.....and the rest they can look up. We have had to, however ill we have been.
A "strict" vegetarian means someone who follows a vegan diet. It seems to have fallen out of favour though and is not heard so much anymore. Vegans follow a strict vegetarian diet but not all of those who follow a strict vegetarian diet are vegans 😆
But is that the meaning, across the board, when mentioned in research ? Or could one person mean one thing, another mean another ? Have you read research that talks about both a strict vegetarian and vegan in the same sentence ?
"A strict vegetarian means someone who follows a vegan diet."
" ... not all of those who follow a strict vegetarian diet are vegans"
I have never seen strict vegetarianism referred to in research to mean someone who is "strict" about never eating meat or fish but eats dairy and eggs, for example.
Often nutrition research talks about adherence to a particular dietary pattern and how many subjects were adherent or non-adherent and sometimes to what degree. But I havent come across usage of "strict" in that context.
"strict vegetarianism", although not a common phrase these days, has a specific and as far as I'm aware, well agreed meaning - following a diet which contains no animal products.
When I was about your age I had a thyroid nodule, discovered at a yearly exam. My hormone measurements were normal. Biopsy showed no malignant cells. Negative for autoimmune disease. I was put on thyroid hormone for suppression therapy. The mass gradually shrunk and was not palpable. I stayed on thyroid hormone until after menopause. I read that thyroid therapy could usually be stopped at that point, so with my doctor's permission I stopped the thyroid hormone. I'm 76 now and the nodule is detectable but very small. My thyroid hormone levels are normal.
Yours could be a benign nodule also. It warrants further testing and perhaps suppression therapy if that's what it is.
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