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New to all this, please help with test results

TheSnufkin profile image
10 Replies

People on the Hypothyroid UK forum have suggested that I join this forum because of some test results that I received yesterday.

Long story short, I've finally been diagnosed with hypothyroid, but I'm still having awful problems with my memory, attention, concentration, finding words and ability to write (as well as loads of physical problems - I filled in the tick list on b12info.com/). This is very distressing as I'm an academic and my brain is essentially my livelihood and I am getting to the point I can't do my job.

So I requested B12 and folate testing in my latest round of tests as I was told that hypothyroid often goes hand in hand with other mineral/vit deficiencies. I saw the GP yesterday who said that my B12 and other levels were "fine" and that they were in range so he could do nothing about them and that I probably had CFS/ME or fibromyalgia.

For information, my test results are below. As you can see my B12 is just above the cutoff for "normal". However I'm being told on the hypothyroid forum that this level (and the others) are really low. Please can someone look at these and shed some light on why the GP won't treat me? And also how can I access the help I need?

Context for info, I'm 51, female, on HRT with lifelong severe allergies and depression.

Blood haematinic levels

Serum B12 213 ng/L (normal range above 203ng/L which is equivalent to 150 pmol/L)

Serum folate 6.3 ug/L (normal above 4.0 which is equivalent to 10 nmol/L)

Serum Ferritin 18 ug/L (normal range 11-307). This has dropped from 28ug/L in June

Iron (GP note "borderline low transferrin saturation")

Serum Iron Level 14 umol/L (range 2-32)

Serum TIBC 65 umol/L (range 28-54)

Iron Transferrin Sat 21.5% (range 22-36)

Vitamin D level (not measured last week, this is from June)

Serum Vit D3 level 71.5 nmol/L (normal range 50-)

Thyroid (I have been taking 25mcg levo for 6 weeks and have been put up to 50mcg today)

Serum TSH 1.841 mU/L (range 0.57-3.6)

Free T4 8.7 pmol/L (range 7.9-14.0)

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10 Replies
Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny

Hi TheSnufkin,

Apologies for a really quick reply but I've run out of steam today.

There's a lot of useful info in pinned post "Various B12D and PA resources".

Pinned posts are on right hand side of screen if on computer.

I've written many detailed replies with UK relevant info so might be worth searching for those.

A few links to get you started...

Link about "What to do next" if B12 deficiency suspected

b12deficiency.info/what-to-...

If you suspect PA, consider joining PAS who can offer support and pass on useful info.

PAS membership is separate to membership of this forum.

PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society)

Based in Wales, UK.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

There is a helpline number that PAS members can ring.

Testing for PA

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Blog post about being symptomatic for B12 deficiency with normal range serum B12.

b12info.com/your-serum-b12-...

Unhappy with Treatment (UK info)?

Letters to GPs about B12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/b12-writ...

Link to thread about Patient Safety, has useful links for those in UK having difficult health experiences with B12 deficiency.

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

NICE CKS (Clinical Knowledge Summary) B12 deficiency

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

NICE are currently developing new B12 deficiency guideline to be published in 2024.

nice.org.uk/guidance/GID-NG...

nice.org.uk/guidance/indeve...

Local B12 deficiency guidelines

Try to find out which b12 deficiency guidelines your ICB (Integrated Care Board) in England or Health Board in Scotland/Wales are using as your doctors are likely to refer to these.

If you can't find them by searching online or by searching forum threads then best bet is to submit a FOI (Freedom of Information) request to ICB/Health board asking which B12 deficiency guidelines they are using and for a link to or copy of them.

Some local B12 deficiency guidelines are not helpful , see blog post below.

b12info.com/gloucestershire...

Two useful B12 books

"What You Need to Know About Pernicious Anaemia and B12 Deficiency" by Martyn Hooper

Martyn Hooper is the former chair of PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society).

"Could it Be B12?: An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses" by Sally Pacholok and JJ. Stuart (US authors)

Very comprehensive with lots of case studies.

Wrong ideas about B12 deficiency

Many of us on this forum have met health professionals with a poor understanding of B12 deficiency.

Misconceptions about a B12 deficiency

(From Dutch B12 website - units, ref ranges, treatment patterns may vary from UK)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/engli...

Diagnosis and Treatment Pitfalls

(From B12 Institute in Netherlands - units, ref ranges, treatment patterns may vary from UK)

b12-institute.nl/en/diagnos...

Help for GPs

If your GP needs abit of help, you could pass these links on.

1) PAS website has page for health professionals.

No charge for them to join PAS as associate members.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

2) If you join PAS you can access all their leaflets. Some PAS members print these out for GPs.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

3) Club B12 is a group of researchers/doctors looking into B12.

They have regular zoom meetings.

club-12.org/

4) A good article to pass to GPs

B12 article from Mayo Clinic in US

The Many Faces of Cobalamin (Vitamin B12) Deficiency

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Table 1 in above article is about frequent misconceptions about B12 deficiency that health professionals may have.

Oops...not so quick (but is short for me).

I'm not medically trained just someone who suffered for years from unrecognised and untreated B12 deficiency.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply toSleepybunny

I like your screen name....are you a Tove Janssen fan?

TheSnufkin profile image
TheSnufkin in reply toSleepybunny

Yes, love me the Moomins and also my collie (in my profile picture) is called Snufkin 😊

TheSnufkin profile image
TheSnufkin in reply toSleepybunny

Thankyou so much Sleepybunny, lots to read this evening. I really appreciate your reply. I will also look at joining PAS to access some help.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny

"I saw the GP yesterday who said that my B12 and other levels were "fine" and that they were in range"

In UK, people who are symptomatic should be treated even if within normal range for serum B12.

Are your symptoms consistent with B12 deficiency?

Symptoms of B12 Deficiency (folate deficiency also mentioned)

I used PAS list below and added extra symptoms at the bottom.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

b12-institute.nl/en/symptom... (B12 Institute Netherlands)

Symptoms of Peripheral Neuropathy (damage to peripheral nerves)

nhs.uk/conditions/periphera...

Peripheral neuropathy can be associated with B12 deficiency and sometimes with folate deficiency.

NHS B12 deficiency article says

"Some people can experience problems related to a vitamin B12 deficiency, despite appearing to have normal levels of vitamin B12 in their blood.

nhs.uk/conditions/vitamin-b...

Summary of BSH Cobalamin and Folate guidelines (a UK document) says

"In the presence of discordance between test result and strong clinical features of deficiency, treatment should not be delayed to avoid neurological impairment"

pernicious-anaemia-society....

NICE CKS for B12 deficiency says

"Note: clinical features of vitamin B12 deficiency can occur without anaemia and without low serum levels of vitamin B12."

TheSnufkin profile image
TheSnufkin in reply toSleepybunny

OK, here's the symptoms from this list b12-institute.nl/en/symptom... that I'm suffering from. Some are more serious than others, but I have been living with all these for a while.

General symptoms

Exhaustion (strange ‘drained’feeling), general unwellness

headache, migraine

brittle nails

increased susceptibility to infection (urinary system, sinuses, upper respiratory tract)

hoarseness,

muscle weakness and pains

tinnitus

sensitiveness to cold (especially of hands and feet)

feverish symptoms, feelings of coming down with the flu

Neurological symptoms

Central nervous system

Neuropsychiatry (from the brain)

cognitive decline

memory (especially short term memory)

concentration problems

problems in finding the proper words (aphasia)

desorientation

(mild to severe) depression, moodswings, lability (weeping a lot), quickly irritated, outbursts of anger

anxiety,

altered mental condition, personality changes, sense of alienation, brainfog

Alzheimer-like symptoms (???)

Neurological (from the spinal cord, a.o. subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord)

tingling in hands and feet

disturbed perception of the skin, numbness of the skin (paresthesia)

spastic and instability of gait (ataxia), (e.g. coordination of walking movement, people may knock objects from tables, walk into doorposts; clumsiness)

unvoluntary movements

Peripheral nervous system

Somatic nervous system (perception senses from the eyes, ears, skin (tactile) and sense of smell )

tingling hands and feet

numbness of hands and feet (feeling as if they are ‘asleep’)

muscle tremors on the skin (e.g. eyelid)

blurred vison (focus decreases), optic atrophia

hearing problems, distortion, tinnitus

reduced sense of smell, taste, touch

Autonomous nervous system

pattern of disturbed sleep rythm (unable to fall asleep, or to sleep throughout the night)

Digestive tract

nausea,

abdominal pain

glossitis (red, sore, smooth tongue, sometimes infected)

often mouth ulcers

(sudden) diarrhea or constipation (sometimes alternating)

Gynaecology

Other

back pains (lower extremities)

restless legs

pains in the joints

infected mucosa

allergies

unexplained chronic cough, hoarseness

HealthStarDust profile image
HealthStarDust in reply toSleepybunny

In UK, people who are symptomatic should be treated even if within normal range for serum B12.

I did not know this. Perhaps it’s pointless to test at all then unless there is a test that conclusively points to B12 deficiency.

More reading for me! Yah! Love being both patient and researcher 😣 Honestly, I despair of the state of the UK healthcare system.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply toHealthStarDust

Hi HealthStarDust,

"Honestly, I despair of the state of the UK healthcare system."

So do many of us.....

"In UK, people who are symptomatic should be treated even if within normal range for serum B12."

If you have time, have a look at the quotes from UK B12 documents I included in one of my other replies.

This diagnostic flowchart from a UK document suggests doctors should consider continuing treatment in people who are symptomatic for B12 deficiency even if results in second line tests such as MMA, Homocysteine and Active B12 (holotranscobalamin) are normal range, if there has been a good clinical response to treatment.

stichtingb12tekort.nl/engli...

Hi TheSnufkin,

There have been forum members who had positive experiences with a private iron clinic in East of England. Hopefully one of those people with see this and send you a private message with details. I think forum rules prevent me from naming the clinic here.

HealthStarDust profile image
HealthStarDust in reply toSleepybunny

I’ll try. Would self supplementing not be enough of good option than transfusions?

Mixteca profile image
Mixteca

I would suggest seeing a private iron specialist as transferrin saturation % is low. GPs have no real training in biochemistry, best not take chances - I found out the hard way.

If you do start on B12 injections, you'll need good levels of iron and folate to optimise treatment, which I discovered at great cost to my own health.

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