I was working with the concept of injecting as needed no less than 3 hours apart, up to 5 times a day and using more than one form at a time. I was injecting Hydroxocobalamin, Methylcobalamin with Adenosylcobalamin SC each time I injected.
I thought I was injecting 1 mg of Hydroxocobalamin, 1 mg of Methylcobalamin and 6 mg of adenosylcobalamin SL Do to my error in strength of concentration caused by my experience with products that I had previously used always being 1mg/ml I was actually injecting 4 mg of Methylcobalamin, 2 mg of Hydroxocobalamin each time I injected. I was correct with my understanding of the strength of Adenosylcobalamin SL.
The first 20 days I found that 5 times a day was too much for me at the time. I was too tired and needed too much sleep to keep up with the 5 times a day.
Once I discovered my error in concentration I chose to cut back drastically to give my body time to work out the unintentional increase in B12. The only adverse effect of the reduction was I was nauseous in the morning which was solved in 24 hours by injecting more Methylcobalamin. I got this idea from a private message.
So my evaluation of the trial is that it was positive and the reason for my being tired and needing more sleep was that my body was healing in a way it never could without the increase in B12 and different forms. Overall I felt better than when following any other trials.
I do a lot of cross referencing and read about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromangella, Autism and read what the genetic scientists learn about the 25 different processes that B12 is used by the human body. I accept that if any one of those processes does not work as intended then the body will not function as well as it can.
I see the “1 mg of hydroxocobalamin every other day until symptoms improve” a wonderful advancement 30 +- years ago and appropriate for some conditions/experiences.
I suspect that those that advanced the the 1 mg of hydroxocobalamin every other day until symptoms improve protocol found it successful in some cases including their own and if that protocol does not work for anyone they state that the damage is permanent due to bla bla bla and what they should state is I don’t know how to treat your condition.
So I have not yet designed my next trial and am starting with procuring the different forms of B12 so I have them available. I am finding that with my improvement due to self treatment I can get much quicker feedback as to how the different trials affect MY body. The time lag from when I decide to change my trial and when I can have something delivered is problematic.
I suspect that had I done this trial to start that it would have been too much improvement for my body. I also expect that it was not necessary for me to wait three years other than lack of knowledge.
I also accept that I have been experiencing B12 Deficiency my whole life.
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WIZARD6787
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Another interesting post as I have come to expect from you my friend!
I too have been experimenting as I have been inspired by your posts and based on the “life is too short” doctrine and your ridiculously obvious (now I think about it) statement “that all cofactors etc work together” I have changed tactic.
I have broadened my supplements all in one go without increasing my B12 so still 1 x 1.5mg per day with surprising results. Overall I feel and look better but there is more contrast between active days and recovery days. I really feel the need to rest completely for days at a time and if I don’t I feel rubbish. But I am not resting because I feel exhausted but because I feel the need - I am not sure if I am making any sense!!
Anyway, as you say we are all different and my key complaint as I write this now is tinnitus and aching teeth - those symptoms are hardest to eradicate and tend to be around on rest days. It may be as the quieter time allows more self awareness…
Makes sense to me. Great minds think alike. Then again so do those that are rubbish. 🙂
I express the difference between fatigue and needing rest and sleep as the fatigue is constant and the resting and sleeping are now effective. Still no fun.
I do not go with that I am more aware at night rather my body works differently at night and so does my neurological system which controls what pain impulses are sent and received.
Aching teeth are no longer an issue for me other than a tell that I may be pushing to hard. Thing is it is possible that the aching teeth is the result of healing.
I use a loose criteria that if the pain cames after "stress" than it is healing. Hard emotionaly to know I may be causing pain later. I still only intellectually trust that it will not escalate as it used to do for so long.
I have a tooth that is missing sometimes it aches. That is weird.
hello Wizard, I read all your posts, they are very interesting, make me think but also confirm the conclusion I have come to (from research documents and personal circumstances), I need to heal as much as possible as soon as possible. I hope I can fulfill my intention. Best wishes .
Thank you for sharing your research in the methods of taking various forms of vitamins B12 . A couple of questions. 1/ Where did you actually come across/ read about using all three form of B12 together in one day and 2/ where do you buy your Methylcobalamin and Adenosylcobalamin to inject Subcutaneously or do you inject all of them intramuscular? As I haven’t found Methylcobalamin and Adenosylcobalamin to inject subcutane, I am a coward doing them intramuscular , I bought tinctures and use a dropper to put both forms , Methylcobalamin and Adenosyl, as well as Methylfolate under my tongue. Like you I experience a lot of fatigue doing this. I now take more than 1 day in between. I don’t know if that’s the reason that improvements are slow. Or that the amounts all in one day is perhaps not a good idea after all and making me feel lousy instead? Or that the under the tongue method isn’t working? It’s interesting to hear about other people who are trying out different ways , wanting to heal even better then we have already using the conventional ways i.e. 6 loading injections then 1 each 2 or 3 month.(which wasn’t the way I was treated) I suppose at a certain age improvements are less likely to happen, as it’s not the elixir of life , only a way to prolong life a bit longer. It’s what I try to do now but only if it also gives me enjoyment and is meaningful. So my research in finding a way to do this is what I try to do. Also to Wwwdot… my tinnitus has not improved at all, so having been deficient for way too long has done permanent damage in my case.
>>Where did you actually come across/ read about using all three form of B12 together in one day. That and injecting throughout the day was my idea.
Using Methylcobalamin and Adenosylcobalamin together is often mentioned when reading about other conditions and matches my experiences.
I am finding that eliminating Hydroxocobalamin causes a downturn in about three days although Cynocabalamin may be as effective.
I inject SC although I started with IM. I doubt I will ever go back.
I personally go with my understanding is symptoms may or may not be permanent that are permanent with current treatment and the effects of aging are too nebulous to use definitively.
"Potential toxic effects of cobalt (cobalt(II) nitrate hexahydrate) to human neurons grown in vitro were evaluated. Methylcobalamin injections significantly increased the mean levels of plasma cobalt (6.83-fold) and urinary cobalt (51-fold) in comparison to unexposed subjects, and significant positive correlations were found between the frequency of methylcobalamin injections and the levels of plasma and urinary cobalt (injections every second day induced cobalt levels in excess of the LabCorp cobalt occupational maximum exposure limits)."
I was not aware of the possibility of cobalt toxicity.
I do always try to limit my intake of anything in general principle especially long term. It is a matter of risk of taking a supplement and the risk of suffering by not.
Thanks for pointing this out. I was under the impression that there were no upper levels for usage of B12 injections that it was completely safe as is stated on many B12 webpages.
I just googled and found as first answer..
Vitamin B12 injections are very safe. In rare cases, the injections may cause allergic reactions.
Thank you for that! You and others in this group make it very difficult to stay purposely ignorant. Woefully ignorant as always is a condition of the human species.
I am not medically trained, and have a poor grasp of bio chemistry. But I was curious and did some searching. I saw very little research on cobalt toxicity, and even less on cobalt toxicity in humans. I personally didn't see anything alarming regarding cobalt toxicity resulting from my daily injections of 1000mcg of B12.
No, Wizard really did inject very high doses by accident due to a mixup with calculating the dosage of methyl powder mixed with saline.
I don't think it was 60mg though, more like 4 mg x 5 times methyl = 20mg , and 2 mg x 3 times hydroxo = 6 mg, total 26 mg. Is that right WIZARD6787 ? The original post is here mentioning 25 mg max healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...
At the time i remember thinking , oh that's exactly the same daily dose given to ALS patients. High dose for sure, but not excessively alarming IMO, especially since it was for a short time.
I was trying to look this up earlier today but didn't have much time. From the little I read, there's a world of a difference between cobalt bound to b12 & cobalt poisoning from things like cobalt hip implants that release free Cobalt ions. The body has a mechanism to eject unused/processed b12 , thus the large increase in urinary cobalt excretion posted by WiscGuy .
If cobalt poisoning from B12 really was a thing, they would not be giving ALS patients 25 mg and 50 mg doses of methylcobalamin twice a week for 16+ weeks in clinical trials. That's mg - milligrams, basically what Wizard was injecting.
I personally wouldn't try such high doses but it's still considered 'safe'. Probably gives the kidneys a good workout though 🤭 And likely not recommended for those with kidney issues.
From a young age I were diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrom know back then as M.E. In later years I were diagnosed with fibromyalgia (your pronunciation made me smile). The new trend of diagnosis is FND !
Like yourself I have tried different methods of injecting . I am still suffering with neuropathy but a little more active so long as I dont over exert myself.
I feel what is needed is a slow release of all the different forms of B12 that you have experimented with in one ampoul.
B12 works hand in hand with folate - have you been supplementing that as well? If not you cannot possibly be getting the best results. I use 5 mg tablets of folic acid daily and find that works. If you do not I suggest you so the same and stick to 1mg hydroycobalamine EOD .
Thank you for the reply. It is appreciated. Thank you for your suggestion.
I decided about 6 months ago to use "Simple Supplement" instead of a B complex rather than try and determine what supplements were needed. My concept was my body could adapt. Simple Supplement" has .6 mg of Folate.
I have established to my satisfaction that the Hydroxocobalamin EOD is not a viable protocol for me. I can find no rational reasons to go back to that protocol that I abandoned 4.5 months ago.
When I abandoned the protocol used by the physicians in the USA 2.5 years ago the results were much more desirable to the same degree when I abandoned the EOD protocal.
Thank you all for your replies. They were helpful to me.
My latest trial was a success. That protocol was beneficial to my neurological system!
I am leaning towards my next trial being the same amounts and forms and restricting to three times a day to slow down the healing. Still working out what might be best.
The methylcobalamin injections with SL adenosylcobalamin being positive is as definitive as things get without tests which are not yet designed.
I happen to have run out of hydroxocobalamin and substituted cyanocobalamin. Once the hydroxocobalamin is delivered I will switch back and see what happens.
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