If your doctor worries that too much ... - Pernicious Anaemi...

Pernicious Anaemia Society

33,315 members•24,543 posts

If your doctor worries that too much B12 is toxic, show them this study on ALS & B12

ALS is the same as Lou Gehrig's disease, and is also what Stephen Hawking had. It is a neurodegenerative disease, thought to mostly affect the motor neurons.

Ryosuke Oki, et al, "Efficacy and Safety of Ultrahigh-Dose Methylcobalamin in Early-Stage Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis" JAMA Neurol. 2022;79(6):575-583. jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

From the abstract:

Does twice-weekly intramuscular injection of 50-mg ultrahigh-dose methylcobalamin slow clinical progression in early-stage amyotrophic lateral sclerosis?

Results A total of 130 patients (mean [SD] age, 61.0 [11.7] years; 74 men [56.9%]) were randomly assigned to methylcobalamin or placebo (65 each). ... The least square means difference in ALSFRS-R total score at week 16 of the randomized period was 1.97 points greater with methylcobalamin than placebo (−2.66 vs −4.63; 95% CI, 0.44-3.50; P = .01). The incidence of adverse events was similar between the 2 groups.

Conclusions and Relevance : Results of this randomized clinical trial showed that ultrahigh-dose methylcobalamin was efficacious in slowing functional decline in patients with early-stage ALS and with moderate progression rate and was safe to use during the 16-week treatment period.

These people were injected with 50 mg twice a week - that is the same as 50,000 mcg, which is 50 !! of our little German ampoules - injected all at once, twice a week, for 16 weeks.

There are many other studies like this one scholar.google.com/scholar?...

And I'm pretty sure they aren't going by serum B12 levels 🤪

Written by

jade_s

To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .

Read more about...

12 Replies

•

WIZARD67872 years ago

Thank you for that.

I keep coming across that people with functional B12 Deficiency benefit from megadoses with no amounts listed. This is the first time I have seen the term Ulta megadoses.

This lead me to that 60 years ago 1 mg became a standard for B12 arbitrarily and the reason for that is the weight of cobalamin 1 mg is also one ml.

I administer 10 mg SL and inject 5 mg some days. 105 mg per week of B12.

So in my case study of one 1mg every other day is a microdose.

There are 30 mg in 1 ml of B6. The treatment for B6 deficiency is 1 ml every day for life.

I am an environmental scientist and am now an old timer who knows the origin of many of the setbacks in use today. In some cases I have talked to the people that made them up with no scientific basis as there was none in 1969. Many of the setbacks are in direct conflict with the current science.

jade_s• in reply toWIZARD67872 years ago

This is also the first time i've seen "ultra high doses" . Made me chuckle 😂 because it is a rather high dose!

Yet it is "slightly" less than the 5 g in cyanokit for cyanide poisoning / smoke inhalation. 5 g = 5000 mg = 5000 B12 ampoules... 😱 chemm.hhs.gov/countermeasur... There they do have to worry about adverse side effects... chemm.hhs.gov/countermeasur... still not "toxic" per se even at that dose.

I have also seen how some research can evolve into incorrect yet entrenched thinking because someone misquoted some paper decades ago.

Sneedle2 years ago

What else might it be efficacious in slowing? Dementia, Parkinsons? That's such a massive dose, really fascinating thanks for posting.

jade_s• in reply toSneedle2 years ago

Alzheimer's! scholar.google.com/scholar?...

Multiple Sclerosis - may slow down progression scholar.google.com/scholar?...

(Sorry to tired to pull out specific studies )

Parkinson's is due to dopamine levels so not sure about that. But it may be misdiagnosed for B12D in some rare cases.

Very possibly others. I haven't looked into different types of dementia & b12 recently but would not be surprised if it also served a protective role to some extent.