From my post on the Thyroid website - Pernicious Anaemi...

Pernicious Anaemia Society

31,928 members23,064 posts

From my post on the Thyroid website

MrPump profile image
3 Replies

I have been told I should post my recent bloods on this website after posting them on the Thyroid one.

Extract follows

Hi AllI’m new to this site. I seem to be experiencing classic thyroid related symptoms. Sensitive to cold (below 21 degrees ish) Chills even on a hot or very hot day . Goosebumps . So if exercising in the sun eg riding my bike this can be a problem as goosebumps stop you sweating! Weight fluctuates And others I’ve had numerous thyroid function blood tests done by my GP all normal and so no other tests were carried out . (No matter what I said) other than a B12 test recently so : I paid for a full thyroid test through Medicheck and the results are 

Ferritin 114 (30-650)

Folate Serum 5.5 (8.83-60.8)

B12 Active 55 (25.1-165)

Vitamin D 62 (50-200)

TSH 3.44 (0.27-4.2)

Free T3 5.7 (3.1-6.8)

Free Throxine 17.4 (12-22)

Thyroglobulin Antibodies 13.8 (0-115)

Thyroid Peroxide Antibodies 8.3 (0-34)

CRP HS 0.68 (0-3)

The written reports Folate as low and B12 as a little low otherwise all ok. My GP recently tested Folate & B12 so I knew about that . 

GP recently tested and reported

Folate Serum 5.5 (8.83-60.8)

B12 Active 55 (25.1-165)

Serum Vitamin B 12 106 (180-1000)

The GP told me to start taking B12 tablets so I have ; I’ve been taking them for about a week or so.The Medicheck physician suggests Folic Acid tablets 

I suspected my thyroid or pituitary was playing up. I had a meningioma removed in 2015 this was originally diagnosed incorrectly as a Macro Pituitary Adenoma .

I’m feeling / exhibiting classic thyroid related symptoms. Intolerance to cold: shivers when it’s hot . Fluctuation weight etc etc

My body is telling me something is not right .?

Written by
MrPump profile image
MrPump
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Read more about...
3 Replies
Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny

Hi,

Your serum B12 result seems really low to me.

Serum Vitamin B 12 106 (180-1000)

I'm assuming you're in UK and my understanding of UK guidelines is that patients with severe b12 deficiency should be on B12 injections.

There's an increased risk of developing permanent neuro damage including damage to spinal cord if treatment for B12 deficiency is inadequate.

Link about "What to do next" if B12 deficiency suspected

b12deficiency.info/what-to-...

PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society)

Based in Wales, UK.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

There is a helpline number that PAS members can ring.

PAS membership is separate to forum membership.

Unhappy with Treatment (UK info)?

Letters to GPs about B12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/b12-writ...

Symptoms of B12 Deficiency (folate deficiency also mentioned)

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

b12-institute.nl/en/symptom... (B12 Institute Netherlands)

Find the local B12 deficiency guidelines for your ICB (Integrated care Board) or Health Board as GP is likely to refer to these when diagnosing and treating B12 deficiency.

CCGs (Clinical Commissioning Groups) in England were replaced by ICBs in July 2022.

I hope you are not in the UK area discussed in blog post below....

b12deficiency.info/gloucest...

Some UK B12 documents

BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines

b-s-h.org.uk/guidelines/gui...

BNF Hydroxocobalamin

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/hydrox...

NICE CKS B12 deficiency and Folate deficiency

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

There are currently new NICE guidelines in development for Pernicious Anaemia and B12 deficiency. These should be published in 2023.

nice.org.uk/guidance/indeve...

If you click on "project documents" then on "consultation comments and responses" it gives a good insight into current issues around diagnosis and treatment.

B12 article from Mayo Clinic in US

The Many Faces of Cobalamin (Vitamin B12) Deficiency

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Table 1 in above article is about frequent misconceptions about B12 deficiency that health professionals may have.

Got to go out but have a look at threads below..

Links to forum threads where I left detailed replies with lots of B12 deficiency info eg causes and symptoms, more UK B12 documents, B12 books, B12 websites and B12 articles and a few hints on dealing with unhelpful GPs.

Some links may have details that could be upsetting.

Some of the info will be specific to UK.

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

I'm not medically trained.

MrPump profile image
MrPump in reply to Sleepybunny

Sod’s law …. Guess where I live !

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply to MrPump

I'm so sorry to read that.

There are other forum members from the same area on this forum. Maybe you could start another thread discussing treatment in your area, I'm sure you'll have others joining in.

Your area is due to review its guidelines so keep an eye on them as sometimes they change without much notice. The change from CCGs to ICBs and the fact that NICE will publish new guidelines on B12 deficiency and PA in 2023 means many local B12 deficiency guidelines are likely to be reviewed over next year, hopefully for the better.

Would you like me to post a direct link to your area's guidelines?

Threads from this forum can appear on NHS website.

You could change the setting of your thread to a more private one, where only visitors to this forum can see it.

To do this

1) Go to original post, click More then click Edit.

2) Scroll down post to Share, click Community Only then click Post.

Have you considered talking to your MP if unhappy with treatment?

NHS Complaints

patients-association.org.uk...

Care Opinion website

careopinion.org.uk/

Have you asked GP why you were put on oral tablets rather than injections?

Do you have any neurological symptoms?

If yes to neuro symptoms...

Look at the treatment pattern in BNF hydroxocobalamin link for those with "neurological involvement"

See also this page from NICE CKS guidance on B12 deficiency

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

If your GP is not treating you adequately and you have neuro symptoms, it may be worth discussing SACD with them.

I am not saying you have SACD, I'm not a health professional but I am saying that your doctors should know that SACD, sub acute combined degeneration of the spinal cord is a potential consequence of B12 deficiency if treatment is delayed or inadequate.

Mentioning SACD is a letter or conversation may make them take more notice of you, sadly could irritate them as well.

Neurological Consequences of B12 Deficiency

PAS news item

pernicious-anaemia-society....

PAS article about SACD, sub acute combined degeneration of the spinal cord

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Blog post from Martyn Hooper's blog, mentions SACD

martynhooper.com/2010/09/21...

If's very hard sometimes to challenge doctors but can be necessary. Be prepared for relationship with GPs to come under strain as some do not like being challenged however politely it is done.

I suggest putting queries about treatment and diagnosis into a short, polite letter as harder to ignore. See letter writing link in my first reply

When you have the time and energy, have a look at the last thread I linked to at bottom of my first reply. It was started by someone with neurological symptoms.

Have you been referred to a specialist?

NICE guidance Suspected Neurological Conditions

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng127

NICE when to refer B12 deficient patient to neurologist/haematologist/gastro-enetrologist

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

Seeing a specialist is no guarantee of better treatment....there is ignorance about B12 deficiency among some specialists.

Some UK forum members resort to treating themselves when NHS treatment is not enough for them. I see this as a last resort.

You may be interested in this petition to get injectable B12 available over the counter in UK

change.org/p/dr-june-raine-...

Tracey Witty of B12 Deficiency Info has been campaigning on this issue for 8 years.

b12deficiency.info/eight-lo...

Two useful B12 books

"What You Need to Know About Pernicious Anaemia and B12 Deficiency" by Martyn Hooper

Martyn Hooper is the chair of PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society).

UK BNF treatment info is out of date in above book. See BNF hydroxocobalamin link in my other reply.

"Could it Be B12?: An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses" by Sally Pacholok and JJ. Stuart (US authors)

Very comprehensive with lots of case studies.

Films and videos about PA and B12 deficiency

PAS conferences

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Films about b12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/films/

What does your GP think has caused your low B12?

Risk Factors for PA and B12 Deficiency

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/what-are...

b12deficiency.info/who-is-a...

Next link about causes is from a Dutch B12 website

b12-institute.nl/en/causes-...

What's your diet like?

Do you eat plenty of B12 rich food eg meat, fish, eggs, dairy and foods fortified with B12?

If yes to B12 rich diet then diet as a cause of low b12 is less likely and it's more likely that there's an absorption issue in the gut.

Has your GP at least tested you for PA and Coeliac disease?

Testing for PA

pernicious-anaemia-society....

A negative result in tests for PA does not rule out PA, some GPs may not know this. It's possible to have Antibody Negative PA.

Diagnostic flowchart from BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines which mentions Antibody Negative PA.

stichtingb12tekort.nl/engli...

Coeliac disease

UK guidelines below suggest that anyone with unexplained B12, folate or iron deficiency should be tested for coeliac.

NICE guidelines Coeliac Disease

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng20/c...

If you were tested in the past and had a negative result then check your doctor followed the recommended guidelines, some don't....

A person with coeliac disease may get a negative result in coeliac blood test if

1) they have IgA deficiency

2) they were not eating enough gluten prior to blood being tested

I was lucky to avoid permanent dementia and spinal damage from unrecognised and untreated B12 deficiency.

You may also like...

Active B12 result from Blue Horizon can anyone explain

(insufficient 140 - 250) B12 Active High 209.6 pmol/L (25.1- 165) Serum Folate...

Blood results all \"normal\" still feel rubbish

250) Serum Folate 13.30 (8.83 - 60.8) nmol/L This weeks blood test, after Loading dose of B12...

An update from my post last week re: cfs

I'm glad he's doing the tests. He went through my previous b12 blood tests and my levels were 112,...

Please can I ask for your opinions on my blood results and symptoms

strongly suggest PA and a normal serum B12 is reported TSH=0.35 (0.27-4.20) FSH=5.5

Thyroid results - should I have MMA, homocysteine checked too?

Other recent tests which may be relevant are Serum vitamin B12 177 ng/L (145 – 910) Folate...