Shingles Vaccination - any pointers please?

[JanCymru]

As I'm in my early 70's I qualify in the optimum age group to receive the Shingles Vaccination, but on looking at info about the vaccination I found there are 2. Info below copied from the NHS website:

"There are 2 shingles vaccines available in the UK:Zostavax,

a live vaccine given as 1 doseShingrix,

a non-live vaccine given as 2 dosesIf Zostavax is not suitable for you, a GP or practice nurse will decide whether to offer you Shingrix instead.

You should not have the shingles vaccine if you've had a serious allergic reaction (including an anaphylactic reaction) in the past to a previous dose of the shingles vaccine, or to any of the ingredients in the vaccine, or to a previous dose of varicella (chickenpox) vaccine.

If you have a weakened immune system a GP or practice nurse will assess which vaccine is suitable for you.

Discuss any health concerns with the GP or practice nurse before you have the vaccine.Zostavax is not suitable for people who have a weakened immune system due to a condition, treatment or medicine."

Do any of you knowledgeable fellow forum users know if having PA condition is classed as 'having a weakened immune system' ?

Would appreciate any insights, especially if any one of you has had the Shingles Vaccination and whether your GP nurse or practice flagged up the difference between the 2 vaccines on offer?

Many thanks.

[helvella]

As I am still getting over shingles (nine months of acute and post-herpetic neuralgia), I wish I'd had the option!

Anyway, the Summary of Product Characteristics and Patient Information Leaflets are linked below.

I know that, for example, autoimmune thyroid disease is NOT usually considered a weakened immune system.

Shingrix powder and suspension for suspension for injection, Herpes zoster vaccine (recombinant, adjuvanted)

There is a LiveChat facility linked)

medicines.org.uk/emc/produc...

Zostavax vaccine

medicines.org.uk/emc/produc...

[JanCymru in reply to helvella]

Hi Helvella,

Thank you for the reply, and I hope you recover quickly from your bout of shingles - I do appreciate how nasty it is, having seen my Dad suffer for months with the pain and blistering around his torso, and the scarring was there for years. Thank you for the links too; very useful - have had a look and the only warning flag for me in regard to either vaccine is the possibility of coagulation disorder likely to cause bleeding. This is a bit of a worry for me as I had the AZ Covid vaccine, and this caused me to have multiple spontaneous eye bleeds which were directly linked to that vaccine and have been advised since to ensure I'm not offered the AZ vaccine, nor to take any anti-inflammatory, or use any topical anti-inflammatory either.

Really appreciate your input, and wish you well on your recovery.

Thanks again.

[helvella in reply to JanCymru]

You have suffered!

I had both AZ vaccines without significant issue - hardly anything at all.

But I have a nasty suspicion it was the Pfizer Covid vaccine used as a booster that triggered the shingles. I did a Yellow Card report but it's very difficult to be certain.

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

google :Pfizer vaccine, Shingles, B12 deficiency

The Express mentions all three !

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, Sallyannl,

My B12 is pretty reasonable - around 580 the other week.

Before accepting the Pfizer vaccine (received it on 16th November 2021), I did read round. And then again after I got shingles.

From what I found, it seemed possible there was a connection but too unclear. And I did not notice the article in the Express.

I suspect I will now refuse this autumn/winter's booster. But I really want some way to express why I am refusing. And to have a conversation with someone who really understands.

[deniseinmilden in reply to helvella]

That's interesting - I had a very serious and long-term outbreak of my repeating shingles (which I have discovered from swabbing the blisters and PCR testing the exudate is due to a slightly different virus) after my last covid vaccine last October (I think Pfizer) and a friend has just gone down with shingles after getting covid.

She was told that this is very common and is why we are hearing so much more about shingles now than we used to (and to confirm this I've recently seen adverts online and on TV about it) because it is a common result after a covid infection. Apparently fighting covid can weaken the body's immune system to the point where it can't keep the herpes zoster virus dormant and it consequently gives rise to shingles.

Because the vaccines work by challenging our bodies to respond as if we had covid, and so produce antibodies against it, unfortunately it does mean that for some of us, particularly those with problems with our immune systems because of other health issues, we will get some of the problems that covid would have caused us - albeit in a much milder way. Those of us who have had some reaction to the vaccines would probably have been those who would have died of the infection if we'd had it at full strength.

Yes, it's daunting to opt to have an injection which has the potential to cause us some complications/compromises but it is still a much better option than getting the virus in its full potency - and short of living in a bubble, no one can guarantee to avoid the infection.

[Nackapan in reply to deniseinmilden]

Thats interesting .

I was ill for 5 weeks following the first covid vaccine .

Okay after the second ( pzifer )

Then had covid . 2 weeks. A nasty virus .

Ive had shingkes twice in the distant past.

So is good sign i manged to avoid it .

Makes sense if immune system knocked.

[JanCymru in reply to Nackapan]

Thanks Nackapan, all information is useful for us.

[helvella in reply to deniseinmilden]

It is very difficult.

My fear is, really, that it could interact with my ongoing issues. My ferritin is still raised (put down to inflammation rather than excess iron). I really, really never want to go through those first few weeks of shingles ever again.

[deniseinmilden in reply to helvella]

I'm so lucky that I am prescribed daily acyclovir (although my guts absorb so little of anything I have to have the 800mg ones rather than the normal 200mg - or even the usual high dose 400mg ones) to help me keep it under control. If my guts are worse than usual, so I don't absorb any meds, I do still get the odd outbreak, but then, because I've always got the tablets I can hammer them into me every 4 hours so I can get over it reasonably quickly.

Other than migraines possibly, it is the worst thing that I encounter. The fever, headache, all over neuropathy (which puts me in mind of my body being like a Faraday cage with electric shocks running over the surface all the time) and systemic hideous malaise is beyond what you can imagine when it isn't actually happening.

I my last full bout started on the 9th July (I had a flare a couple of weeks ago which I managed to stop with plenty of tablets before it got a hold) and went on the following week when it was very hot. Even though it was so hot I was cold sweating (since my B12 deficiency problems I don't sweat due to heat) and had goosebumps for several days.

I'm very lucky that I only get a relatively small area of blisters though - it's the rest of the complaint that cripples me as well.

[helvella in reply to deniseinmilden]

My migraines are, luckily for me, very mild and almost pure aura. (First one in a while just this morning.)

I can't imagine recurrence after recurrence. Too awful to contemplate.

When I started to feel a bit better, I then had pericarditis for about a week. Apparently also quite common after shingles. Couldn't lie down properly - but couldn't sleep seated.

And the side effects of Amitriptyline - which was helpful for a while but quite soon I knew I had to stop.

Main issue now is postherpetic neuralgia. GP, despite being very pleasant, had been trying to make me believe PHN was unlikely. Then, when it was clear I have it, that it would likely sort itself out soon. Though it seems to be getting worse rather than better!

Regular B12 does seem to help (I manage on oral). If I miss it for a few days, something gets worse, so I go back then I seem to return onto my former track.

[deniseinmilden in reply to helvella]

I have had them for 3 weeks together regularly in the past, although usually "only" a week to 10 days -until just recently when I discovered sumatriptan, which limits the main effects to a few hours and they are now completely gone in a few days.

I'm so much not like it normally and am pretty stoic - for instance with the shingles - but the only thing that stops me from killing myself to get away from the migraine is feeling too ill to get to a means of ending myself. I guess it really plays havoc with my system.

The shingles usually plays my heart up too but it doesn't need any excuses so I'm not surprised.

It's extra horrible if you don't expect it and you really, really have my sympathy.

🤞 your migraines never get any worse - and hopefully go altogether!

Thank you for all your interesting links and articles, etc. I always appreciate your posts and replies.

[HeartyGilly in reply to helvella]

Interestingly several people I know caught shingles at the sane time. Curious.

[JanCymru in reply to helvella]

Thanks helvella, I will probably have the Shingles jab, but at a time of my choosing, well clear of either the Covid booster or flu jab. At least then I can reasonably know which jab was causing any problems.

[deniseinmilden in reply to JanCymru]

it's a bit grim it's like that, isn't it, but a good, well thought through strategy.

Good luck with them all.

[Hidden in reply to JanCymru]

"Bit of a worry for me as I had the AZ Covid Vaccine, and this caused me to have multiple spontaneuos eye bleeds which were directly linked to that Vaccine "

My hubby had various Bleeds due to either Covid or flu vaccine. The back of his neck like a birth mark the size of a saucer, and his tongue. Was given anti inflammatory medications, which We stopped immediately as his blood pressure went through the roof. Now had steriod injection and he is far worse, We are now avoiding all vaccines as we cannot predict what reactions he will get. We are not informed enough of the dangers, NHS etc just say serious reactions are RARE . 1 in 100,000 for serious conditions.

We all have a choice, but do we really know how our body will react.

[Hidden in reply to JanCymru]

Last week it was announced that AstraZeneca pulled out of the latest Booster programme. I wonder why !

"A higher than expected rate of Blood Clots in the veins of the Brain, known as cerebal venous thrombosis (2.5 events per 100,000 Vaccinations "

[JanCymru in reply to Hidden]

Yes, indeed, I fully appreciate the need for the rush to get the vaccine out at the time, but what worries me is the lack of follow when you report a problem to your Surgery. Totally dismissed, and with the attitude 'well, it's your choice, you either have the next dose or not, we are unable to advise you' etc., Reported via the Yellow Card system, but frankly I think they are overwhelmed with the reports. It was my optician who was the most helpful, and told me 'off the record' that branches around the country were compiling statistics on the eye bleeds as they were just getting people walking in with the bleed and frightened about what it meant.

[Hidden in reply to JanCymru]

I believe the NHS know far more than it is letting on. A gagging process for fear of litigation, It also makes you wonder why so many doctors and NHS workers refused the vaccines, even after being threatened with the sack. What did they see in the early days of the vaccine that made up there minds? There is a connection with B12, we've read numerous reports of people recovering with b12 Injections. Why is hubby's only improvement is down B12 Injections. Why have 37 Countries now refusing AstraZeneca Injection and in the USA have never given clearance for use.

The more you read the more you question ?

As for Surgeries, ours dismissed it straight away. They and the ambulance refused to treat him.

I do feel some sort of empathy for them, they might not of read all adverse affects. That doesn't mean I am going to button up and not highlight problems. I am certainly not going to be fobbed off, I have been honest with what I have seen.

Not a word from them since going private, not even asking how he is getting on. I certainly would of prefered them to have rang, and have some sort of help ..... No.

You Live and learn. Its just so sad that the institution we once admired have let us down.

Anyway tomorrows another day.

[JanCymru in reply to Hidden]

Truly frightening - and regarding the Covid vaccine I know of two pharmacists personally who have refused the jabs....makes you wonder, doesn't it? Take care, wishing you well.

[Nackapan in reply to Hidden]

Yrs its scary.

Ive had little / no help with my 93 year old mum .

As fir vaccinations fir covid its suchba lottery.

Alot of staff did refuse it as young and believed getting covid they would edure and recover.

Its weighing up the risks.

They stil dont know why sone die of covid . Some even young get long covid.

Some are only ever carriers .

Some get a high protection from the vac without any side effects.

Some get horrid effects like you.

I took 5 weeks to get over astra zenica vaccine . My husband had 1 day of fatigue not even a sore arm!

I agree its stressful making decisions.

Im glad astra zenica no longer being used .

Having had covid . I dont 3ant that again . Scary.

Hope your situation improves

[Hidden in reply to Nackapan]

just been to see specialist, he was a lot more amiable . Numerous people looked over MRI Brain scans. Concern in one area were he had bleed,

He was honest and said he cant operate or give him further injections until he knows what he is dealing with. So have now got to go to London for CT Scan. He did mention a bundle of nerves but not sure where. But at least the specialist is listening/reading information sent to him.

[Nackapan in reply to Hidden]

Good.

I had s brain CT before tgd MRI ones.

Very quick .

Seems like this one starting aftesh which is good.

Working through more tests to know whst to do next. And a fresh opinion always good 👍

[Nackapan in reply to JanCymru]

I was sent to the hospital for platelet level blood tests.

Nothing explained thougb.

Unknown??

[Lasue]

the shingrix is expensive that’s why not the vaccine of choice (as it is in most other countries) it lasts longer the other cheaper one lasts 5yrs only

Boots Private price £450

NHS costs them £160

Other countries it is given at any age

NHS waits till we 70

Other countries vaccination for Chicken Pox given to infants thus eliminating shingles entirely

Why an earth don’t we here in the Uk chickenpox vaccination is available but only if you ask for it

It is not in the usual vaccination programme

My husband had the nhs Shingrix I have asked my GP if I can have it too but not quite 70 he is ‘looking into it’if he says no then I’m off to Boots

When my last Covid booster was due I had a coldsore I cancelled booster shot and waited 6 weeks then had it

NHS instructs not to have Covid vaccination until 7 days after shingles vaccination

I’m sure we all can deduce why

Both of us have PA by the way

As always its down to £

and a vaccination programme that could be a lot better

I never thought in my life time a vaccination that could eliminate cervical cancer would be available IT IS SO WHY OH WHY is this not and others POLIO etc not being thrust into the face of the public

Both my grandmother and mother were district Nurses I grew up in an era where all children were in a vaccination regime that seems more robust than today

There rant over I’m off for my daily sea swim to calm down

Well I hope to calm down I’ve had to wait 48 hrs to do that because of a sewage alert …. Don’t set me off about that !

Take care all 😊

[JanCymru in reply to Lasue]

Thanks Lasue, can empathise with you and your husband, and thank you for the information too. Hope you enjoyed the swim!

[deniseinmilden]

I don't know, but having had shingles, I'd strongly recommend that you have one of the vaccines ASAP!

I believe that the "safer" one may not be quite as effective or take longer to become effective but maybe worth trying if you can.

I have PA and all sorts of immune system problems but always have the main vaccine when I have my 'flu jab and I'm usually OK.

They usually make two versions so that people who are allergic to one lot of ingredients will be OK with the other ones.

Sorry, not much help directly.

[JanCymru in reply to deniseinmilden]

It's find deniseinmilden, all information is useful. I plan to have it, but will ensure there is a month between the Covid booster, and the flu jab. I am not going to allow any multiple jabs in one go!

[deniseinmilden in reply to JanCymru]

I think that's such a good policy. I'm going to keep mine further apart this year.

Good luck!

[pitney]

I had the non-live one about 12 weeks ago , got a strange metallic taste in my mouth straight after but no other effects😀

[041051]

Hello, my son had a renal transplant and as he lives with me I was concerned about having a live vaccine. After 18 months of dialogue between my surgery and the renal unit (probably would have been quicker if we weren't in the grips of a pandemic), I had my vaccine a few months ago. I hope this helps you decide.

[HMBradley53]

The first shot you get if your a side sleeper get it in the opposite arm its incredibly sore for about 5 days, as soon as you get home put warm compress on it and massage it as much as possible. I was told it was because the liqid is so thick and goes into the muscle and can't spread quick so the hot compress and massage will help it the second shot isn't as bad but even though you have some discomfort its totally worth it

[Hidden in reply to HMBradley53]

Had B12 last week, and the Nurse said move the arm around and this will help it disperse quicker. The previous week the Nurse had to watch a health care worker inject her self, and she started to rotate her arm and explained why, now she advises people to do the same.

[JanCymru in reply to HMBradley53]

Thanks - good advice. 👍

[pitney in reply to HMBradley53]

I was told it was a single injection for shingles , how long after did you have the second one ?😀

[HMBradley53 in reply to pitney]

3 months maybe they have a new one but its always been a series of 2

[pitney in reply to HMBradley53]

Thank you for the info I will ask about the second one😀

[Soulsister]

I had mine a couple or so years ago, wasn’t told there was more than one. Also don’t know if I have PA or B12 deficiency. My doctor didn’t tell me what the report he received from the hospital said. As that was the first I had heard of it I didn’t ask, was in a bit of a shock. All I can say is that I was fine and accepted it as I had already had shingles once. So wishing you all the best and hope whatever you decide works for you.