Red meat

[Musiclover72]

Appetite, does anyone else crave red meat with pernicious anemia???? I know that I can't absorb the B12 from it but the craving is driving me mad !!

[wedgewood]

Having Pernicious Anaemia has had the opposite effect on me . It’s put me off meat ! It’s great to know that I can get the B12 that I need from injections , without eating the stuff! Also beneficial for the planet !

[Musiclover72 in reply to wedgewood]

The ironic thing is that eating red meat has no benefit to me whatsoever!! It's driving me mad !

[wedgewood in reply to Musiclover72]

I would just give in to it totally and you will probably get sick of it !

[Phylenejo in reply to Musiclover72]

There are other things in meat the body needs and can absorb. I eat lots and 😉 enjoy

[Nackapan]

Your body often can crave what you need. Red neat has All the essential amino acids.zinc.creatin .Iron protein ect ... not just b12

Just go with it...

[deniseinmilden in reply to Nackapan]

Exactly - it is the richest source of many vitamins and minerals, as well as proteins and nutritionally positive fats that we need.

Thank you Nackapan for your knowledge!

[Hidden]

I hadn’t really been eating much red meat for a while ,I was eating more chicken ,salmon and white fish I had just seemed to have gone off it then about two weeks ago I bought 2 beautiful slices of rib eye steak they were super expensive but lovely thick cuts,I cooked them that night for us and I enjoyed every bit of it.Thought no more about it and that night I had the worst night of pain that I’d ever had with my gut,it lasted a good 2.5 days before I started to feel a bit better,I obviously I couldn’t digest it,it felt like it was struck under my ribs and in a big ball in my tummy and my back pain was awful.Never again.That must be what having p.a does for me,I’m not saying no more red meat just no more big chunks of juicy steak lol.Be careful with your digestion I couldn’t believe how badly that effected me.x

[Musiclover72 in reply to Hidden]

Take it easy..... I have the same problem with certain foods.......sadly, the ones I love most

[Hidden in reply to Musiclover72]

I’m the same with popcorn it just sits like a big lumpy ball in my tummy so I avoid that now,shame I loved it and going to cinema it was a rare treat.P.a definately changes things we enjoy in life Best of luck.x

[Musiclover72 in reply to Hidden]

All the best to you too.... take it easy

[Nackapan in reply to Hidden]

If you pop your own and its plain or with a little salt you may be okay I think its more the coatings if you buy it .

Roasted chickpeas a great alternative??

[Nackapan in reply to Hidden]

Oh goodness. Horrid .

Sine treat !

Mt daughter has digestive issues.

She describes the same.

I had that a few times. It was exhaustion from this condition.

Also company so was talking

Body could just not digest.

Then reflux that night.

Another first .

Wasn't even after eating meat .

I find i can't eat much at a sitting ...never have .

(Don't eat steak either. )

I usually use very leans mince and mix with veg and pulses ,then freeze.

I also have never been able to eat my main meal in the evening.

Now can't eat beyond 5-6 pm.

I laugh sometimes as I hear nextdoor having their large big meal as I go to bed .

It's finding a way that suits our bodies isn't it.

A whole new aporoach.

[Yoyodyne in reply to Nackapan]

Google "Time Restricted Eating" and "Time Restricted Feeding". It's a thing. The first human study made no other diet restrictions save the subjects could eat only during the same 10-hour window of their choice during the day. Consistently. These were healthy subjects, and all lost at least a modest amount of weight. There were other health benefits. At conclusion they were told it was over; they could go back to their former dietary habits. At follow-up a year later, none had. dietdoctor.com/video/podcas... Again, healthy subjects. Consult your own doctor.

[Nackapan in reply to Yoyodyne]

Oh goodness.

I don't have food for 12 hours at least.

Never heard of this regime you posted.

I need snacks as am a grazer

Also my body weightt seems to regulate okay.

Despite not able to get enough exercise.

It was just the period of loading b12 i lost too much weight

I think its knowing what we csn absorb and use .

Also having so much needed b12 changes the balance

[Yoyodyne in reply to Nackapan]

Thanks! I had mild PA in the past, but it resolved with oral B12 supplements, maybe one shot. I don't pretend to know what the rest of you go through, other than a vague recollection it can be pretty bad. Best wishes!

[Nackapan in reply to Yoyodyne]

PA doesn't resolve. Do you mean you csn treat purely on b12 tablets daily. And it works to keep symptoms away.

Wonderful if that's the case

Perhaps diagnosed quickly

Glad not an issue for you.

My sisters must've been dietary as daily b12 tablets are absorbed and used so needs top up from an oral b12 supplement.

Is very well.

[Yoyodyne in reply to Nackapan]

Thanks. Should have said I had B12 deficiency, which was distincly unpleasant but ameliorated with oral supplements. Doesn't seem to be an problem as long as I do.

[Hedgeree in reply to Yoyodyne]

Hi Yoyodyne,

I'm assuming this is the same as intermittent fasting? Where you only eat between certain hours?

[Yoyodyne in reply to Hedgeree]

Sort of. They do overlap. TRE windows can shrink from 12 hours down to two hours or even a single meal. Eating one meal a day is definitely intermittant fasting, which is usually defined as a fast of 18 to 48 hours, typically 24, once or twice per week. At 7 per week, single-meal or 2 to 6 hour window TRE pushes that by more than a smidge. 8 to 12 hour feeding windows not so much. But we're all indivuduals and our mileage varies. A key benefit from both is allowing one's gut time to rest and heal after digestion, helping to avoid or repair leaky gut. Another is, the longer the fast and assuming a carb-rich diet, the longer one's period of fat-burning ketogenesis. Gives one's pancreas a break as less insulin is required during this time -- controversial but may confer metabolic benefit. Either way, TRE and IF both decrease inflammation, which is my own cross.

[bookish in reply to Hidden]

Same here, can no longer digest meat - first lost beef and lamb then chicken and most fish. Same with lettuce, all grains. Get by with lemon juice and apple cider vinegar plus free amino acid supplement, but have to watch the diet. Last time I had lamb, it was nearly a week of that lumpy ball.....miserable. Much happier without. Best wishes

[Sleepyfromwales]

I always crave sardines. Usually before my jab is due.

[Nackapan in reply to Sleepyfromwales]

Wish i did !

[pitney]

I haven't eaten much red meat since my early 20s just lost the taste for it and the older I got the less I wanted it, these days I might have a little about every 3 weeks or so but really dont enjoy it too much its strange because as a child I loved roast beef also liver and onions . Like wedgewood I sometimes wonder if its the PA that has put me off .

[Nackapan in reply to pitney]

Tastes do change Also digestion with age anyhow.

I think PA/ b12 deficiency magnifies everything.

Before my b12 deficiency. Was diagnosed abd j knew I was getting ill.

I couldn't digest properly.

Garlic became a problem??

And constipation made me change my diet. ( now know a symptom (

As simply didn't make sense with what I was eating.

Lettuce also j coujd not eat

Since read hard to digest

Thought and told menopause and age.

So was increasing plant eostrogen foods.

Seed loaves ect .

Barking up the wrong tree.

Loading doses although very ill sbd bedboubd made me ravenous but nauseus.

Eating every 3 hours little portions.

Still lost nearly a stone in weight

All back on now .its lije with b12 injections. Pre empting

Don't get too hungry before eating

Don't eat when too tired.

At tines thst suit your bodyclock.

I've not had a meal out fir 4 years.

Hope that day comes.

For me not a priority.

Rather ride my bike or be able to walk further .

I'm starting to think may happen. 🤔

[Hidden]

If you’re craving it, you obviously need it? I’ve been a vegetarian for over 30 years, so I’m glad that hasn’t happened to me! How much B12 do you take (injection)?

[Nackapan in reply to Hidden]

Yes I believe cravings is your body needing something.

Looking back I craved oranges 🍊

Bought bags of them from the market.

Obviously needing folate .

Off coffee completely , also sent half a lager back yo to the bar saying it was off lol. Strange thing eas I just accepted it . A cold coming or something.

Had orange juice instead .

I was awash with oranges .

( discovered I was pregnant!) Ha

[Lollipops35]

In my early to mid twenties I used to live at the gym, meat eating was a ‘thing’ and even as a kid I loved all cuts of meat as opposed to my sister who is more of a leaf eater and is happy to take it or leave it, she’s always been that way, I’ve been poorly on and off since my mid twenties, they diagnosed fibromyalgia but I’m not sold on it, recent PA antibody test came back negative but I don’t believe that either as it’s so hit and miss. So just reading other’s comments here it must be a thing to go off meat? And the sardines thing I laughed out loud!! I crave them too it’s really odd …… I find that chicken doesn’t dosn’t taste of chicken at all anymore 🤷‍♀️ so that’s usually left on the plate…..

Something else a little off piste…. My sense of smell is broken? It’s completely hyped, hyperosmia I believe it’s called, it’s been like it for over two years and it’s still fallen on deaf ears….my nose can smell an orange while it’s being peeled and I’m upstairs in the far bedroom - it’s funny but it’s not because I can smell my own self and all the soft furnishings in the house, I’ve had the carpets ripped up and replaced, and decorated different rooms because they smelt to me…. I’ve changed the washing machine because, run after run wasn’t smelling right even after cleaning the machine and using every product on the shelf….. I change bed sheets sometimes twice a week but pillowcases every other night….. cooking smells drive me insane and if I could get away with not eating I would, …. I said above I love sardines but my god they stink 😂…..

If anyone eats anything with garlic products in I can smell it on them without them even knowing they ate garlic …. And yes they need to be as far away as possible at all times!!!!!

I’ve been known to smell things that are in the food cupboard that I didn’t know we had, it’s crazy …. I smell everything 10 minutes before everyone else at least, i wouldn’t mind if it was beneficial in a financial way !! 🤷‍♀️ but nope…..

Oh and a question for everyone else? Do you have the worst memory or word finding? It’s horrible it’s really really bad…..

[Hedgeree in reply to Lollipops35]

Hi Lollipops,

I'm the same☺ I've been a 'super smeller' as far back as I can remember but I've become more aware of it as I've got older. As a child I didn't realise that some of the things I could smell others couldn't.

I've also had awareness of phantom smells but that's a different thing altogether. It's not happened for a while now but it usually involves a chemical smell, burning or petrol. Quite scary and annoying as it can last for hours.

[Nackapan in reply to Hedgeree]

I've been called a 'sniffer dog' I've an acute sense of smell too .

Can drive yiu up the wall at times.

All part of survival.

My nan was the same.

It helped her as she smelt gas noone else could.

There was a slight leak in her house!!

She was in her 80s at the time.

Her husband proved to be wrong .

Smells are poignant. Hold memories good and bad.

[Hedgeree in reply to Nackapan]

Ha ha yes me too.

Yes smells are poignant some can take me right back to a certain time or place; very emotive ☺

[newlandvale]

Yes, I recognise that. I crave custard and yoghurt! Problem as dairy gives me eczema

[Hedgeree]

Hi Musiclover72,

When I first read your post I thought you were referring to uncooked red meat! Thankfully it seems not....☺

Though it would be a good idea to get an iron panel done to check your iron levels if your craving is as strong as you describe it may be that your levels could be low.

I had a big craving for eating ice, icelollies, ice cubes anything icy and that is also an indicator of a possible iron deficiency which I did have and am hopefully improving.

I don't eat meat as I'm a vegan but the only thing I regularly crave are houmous and crisps.

[Musiclover72 in reply to Hedgeree]

Thanks ! I'll get that checked !

[Lollipops35 in reply to Hedgeree]

It’s usually starch ie bread which indicates low iron x

[Hedgeree in reply to Lollipops35]

I'll have to check but from memory craving carbs is often an amino acid deficiency or minerals such as magnesium or zinc.

[Lollipops35 in reply to Hedgeree]

You likely know a lot more than me, I speak only from personal experience but I have twice now been at 6 and 7 on iron levels and was really deficient but didn’t know it both times, the first time I was eating bread 2 or three times in the night! And throughout the day… just slice on slice … the second time I was the same but it dawned on me quicker there was a problem when the doc mentioned to check iron levels again due to fatigue and then I thought about my snowballing bread ‘relationship’ over the last couple of months …. And knew straight away what the results were going to be x

[Hedgeree in reply to Lollipops35]

It is strange how our body's react; hope you managed to get your iron levels increased?

[RoseFlowerDew]

I wouldn’t say crave it……I know I feel much better after eating liver and beef. For me it’s not the b12 that helps but my body craves the other nutrients namely iron and other b vitamins.

I agree we crave what we need though. I started craving oily fish and eggs last year only to discover from a private blood test i was vitamin d insufficient heading to deficiency. I started supplementing as directed and suddenly my bone pain, aches, and confusion cleared up. The doctor was going to send me for counselling for ‘all the aches and pains’ which is why I did the private blood test and I am so glad I did. So I am angry to see the news this week that NHS referrals to mental health is at an all time high….not surprising because doctors prefer to say everything is mental disease rather than rule out physical causes.

[Hidden in reply to RoseFlowerDew]

I believe NHS referrals will increase even further unless doctors take more interest in nutrition, whether that be b12, iron or any minerals etc. I remember going to counselling once (at my request) and said to the counsellor "what is wrong with the NHS ..... I am ill and I am not depressed yet they won't listen to me "

It took me a long time and research to find out it was b12 deficiency that I was diagnosed with but not treated!

The trouble is once diagnosed with mental health problems everything is mental health ..... wrong !!!

Anti depressants won't solve b12 deficiency or vitamin d deficiency or any other deficiency come to that.

[RoseFlowerDew in reply to Hidden]

Indeed and exactly my experience too.

Misdiagnosis are rarely corrected particularly when it’s the mental health teams failing to spot neurological symptoms. Mental health field has known for decades that they fail to spot neurological issues, leaving people severely brain damaged (e.g. failure to spot meningitis, pernicious anaemia etc) or worse.

Really the issue should be taken up with the GMC particularly when it comes to prescribing. Since as in my case the tranquillisers prescribed contained H2 antagonists which lowers B12 faster and more so than the pernicious anaemia….hence left literally on the floor unable to walk from subacute spinal cord damage…not helpful when in fact untreated pernicious anaemia causes permanent neurological damage and at worst death.

[Hidden in reply to RoseFlowerDew]

It is all so wrong. In our area one of the main criterias for b12 injections is dementia !

CAn you believe any medic allowing someone to develop dementia before giving B12 injections.

Perhaps it's me not thinking straight !

[RoseFlowerDew in reply to Hidden]

More like they are not thinking straight…..

[Sleepybunny in reply to Hidden]

Yes I can believe it sadly...I had dementia symptoms and GPs refused to treat me.

[Sleepybunny]

Hi,

Just wondered what your iron levels are like?

I wondered if iron deficiency could lead to craving red meat.

[Sleepybunny]

Article about effect of B12 deficiency on sense of smell

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/271...

[charks]

Never used to be but I'm a convert to how big a part nutrition plays in general health. Just read an article that suggests it also helps mental health as well. Since finding out I have PA I have completely changed my diet. I only eat during a 6 hours window every evening. I feel the best ever and my weight and blood pressure is perfect. I used to be type 2 diabetic but now that had been reversed. My partner is very supportive and eats the same as me. The last two times he had a PSA ( prostate cancer) test done the readings were very high and we hd two cancer scares ( MRI etc). After a year on the diet his last PSA was normal. Sorry to be preaching but I think us people with PA should be very careful with diet. Our digestive systems are faulty. I eat loads of meat because it is is easy for the body to digest. It's things with fibre I have problems with.

P.S. I didn't realise how bad my sense of smell was until it came back.

[Narwhal10]

Yes Musiclover72,

Especially noticeable as I’m female and at my ‘Queen time’ (shall we say) the steak and beef are mightily consumed.

[Lurcher-lady]

Heck no, I’ve not eaten meat for 40 years. The very thought is off putting 🥴