Advice on next steps : I’ve had issues... - Pernicious Anaemi...

Pernicious Anaemia Society

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Advice on next steps

haggisplant profile image
2 Replies

I’ve had issues with burning, numb, tingling hands and feet on and off since my second child was born 3years ago. Also worsening fatigue and aches.

X2 b12 tests showed within range, upper 300’s. However I was taking a breastfeeding multi vit at the time.

Was told it was “burning foot syndrome” (bvits or thyroid, I’m hypothyroid.) and then possibly erythmalgia. Also considered peri menopause.

I also had some dizziness in the winter which has improved since ferritin was improved.

In feb I started taking Thorne basic b which has higher b12 and I remember I started to feel a bit better but had been reassured b12 was ok and so actually didn’t think this was b12 related. When that ran out around easter I went back to berrocca which I used to take pre kids.

The last 2 months all symptoms slowly started getting worse. 2 weeks ago I started taking only b12 cytoplan sublinguals (methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin 500µg of each) and I’ve started to notice a calm coolness and gradual ease of the worst hot tingling.

If this is b12 related, I don’t know how to proceed. Will that dose affect tests? Should I inform the Gp or self manage? I’ve been thinking of a medichecks/ thriva test soon for ferritin and vit d which also includes b12.

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Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny

Hi,

UK guidelines suggest that people who have the symptoms of B12 deficiency should be treated even if serum B12 result is within normal range.

Link about "What to do next" if B12 deficiency suspected

b12deficiency.info/what-to-...

Symptoms of B12 Deficiency

pernicious-anaemia-society....

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

b12d.org/admin/healthcheck/...

Symptoms of B12 deficiency and Folate deficiency

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

Symptoms of Peripheral Neuropathy (damage to peripheral nerves)

nhs.uk/conditions/periphera...

Peripheral neuropathy can be associated with B12 deficiency and sometimes with folate deficiency.

Neurological Consequences of B12 Deficiency

PAS news item

pernicious-anaemia-society....

PAS article about SACD, sub acute combined degeneration of the spinal cord

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Risk Factors for PA and B12 Deficiency

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/what-are...

b12deficiency.info/who-is-a...

If you suspect PA, worth joining and talking to PAS who can offer support and pass on useful info.

PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society)

Based in Wales, UK.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

There is a helpline number that PAS members can ring.

Unhappy with Treatment (UK info)?

Letters to GPs about B12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/b12-writ...

Link above has letter templates that people can base their own letters to GP on.

Point 1 is about under treatment of B12 deficiency with neuro symptoms present.

Point 5 is about being symptomatic for B12 deficiency with an in range serum b12 result

Letters avoid face to face confrontation with GP and allow patient time to express their concerns effectively.

Best to keep letters as brief, to the point and polite as possible. It's harder to ignore a letter in my opinion.

Keep copies of any letters sent or received.

UK B12 documents

BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines

b-s-h.org.uk/guidelines/gui...

Summary of above document

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Diagnostic flowchart from BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines which mentions Antibody Negative PA.

stichtingb12tekort.nl/engli...

BMJ B12 article

bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g5226

Emphasises need to treat patients who are symptomatic even if their B12 level is within range.

BNF Hydroxycobalamin

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/hydrox...

NICE CKS B12 deficiency and Folate deficiency

cks.nice.org.uk/anaemia-b12...

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

Each CCG/Health Board in UK will have its own local guidelines on treatment/diagnosis of B12 deficiency. Worth getting hold of local guidelines for your CCG/Health Board and comparing them with BSH, BNF and NICE CKS links.

Two useful B12 books

"What You Need to Know About Pernicious Anaemia and B12 Deficiency" by Martyn Hooper

Martyn Hooper is the chair of PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society).

BNF treatment info in book is out of date. See BNF hydroxycobalamin link in this reply for up to date info.

"Could it Be B12?: An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses" by Sally Pacholok and JJ. Stuart (US authors)

Very comprehensive with lots of case studies.

B12 article from Mayo Clinic in US

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Table 1 in above article is about frequent misconceptions about B12 deficiency that health professionals may have.

Films and videos about B12 deficiency and PA

PAS conference 2019

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Films about B12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/films/

Links below are to forum threads where I left some more detailed replies with lots of B12 info which you may find useful eg B12 deficiency symptoms lists, UK B12 documents, causes of b12 deficiency, B12 books, B12 websites, B12 articles and a few hints on dealing with unhelpful GPs.

There may be some details in the links that could be upsetting.

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

I am not medically trained just someone who suffered with unrecognised B12 deficiency for years.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny

Hi again,

"since my second child was born 3years ago"

Did you have B12 deficiency during pregnancy?

Did you use gas and air mix during labour and if so was it for a long period of time?

Gas and air mix contains nitrous oxide which inactivates B12 in the body.

Nitrous Oxide

gov.uk/drug-safety-update/n...

NICE guidelines Nitrous Oxide ( see side effects section)

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/nitrou...

I would add that the NHS page on pain relief during labour says that there are no harmful effects for mother or baby from gas and air mix.

nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and...

There appears to be no mention on the page that nitrous oxide can inactivate B12.

Midwifery article on B12 deficiency

britishjournalofmidwifery.c...

Blog post by midwife about B12 deficiency

midwifediaries.com/blog/vit...

Of course there are many causes of B12 deficiency besides nitrous oxide exposure and PA eg diet, coeliac disease, Crohn's disease, damage to terminal ileum (part of gut where B12 is absorbed), internal parasites eg fish tapeworm etc...

Risk Factors for PA and B12 Deficiency

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/what-are...

b12deficiency.info/who-is-a...

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