Depression and loneliness

[JSpark10]

Does anyone else feel alienated from family and friends? I feel no one cares . I have lost touch with my friends since I quit going to bars.

[Meblue]

Yes, been depressed for quite awhile. Don’t feel like anyone can understand this type of pain.

[Cb1963]

Hmm, that's interesting, I suppose it depends on what you want from life, and also what life has given you so far,I've had a very active life, and have seen many places in the world, I've worked hard most of my year's but unfortunately certain health problems cause issues these days, I try not to dwell on how I feel, and I made a conscious decision that I didn't need to go out to pubs and bars, and that was over 7 years ago, acceptance in life is a learning curve, I suppose age also dominates on how you feel, or perhaps your friends have settled down and have families, we all have to move according to our environment, I live on my own, I have two grown up children who are a couple of hundred miles away and don't see them all the time, but don't give yourself a hard time, there are plenty of other things in life besides sitting in a bar, I'm quite happy with a glass of Coca-Cola and a chocolate bar, and I'll always find something on the telly to view, I can ring up folk, but as you get older,I feel I like my own company, I'm not a selfish person by saying that, it's purely how I feel, I wouldn't want any one to put up with my imperfections and as you get older we tend to start to be more critical or just generally grumpy old men, mind you I hope I haven't got one foot in the grave just yet lol, but summer is on its way, so a few months of sunshine makes folk feel better, we are all different and I'm sure you'll find different ways to cheer yourself up,thanks.

[Hidden in reply to Cb1963]

That was a great response! I feel exactly the same and have similar circumstances as you with two grown up kids living miles away and living on my own. But I like my own company , my garden and 2 cats . I’ve made a life for myself that fits my circumstances and present state of health! Life is what you make it and no two people are the same. Don’t think that everyone else is better off, happier or more content than you, because appearances can be deceptive. You do what is right for you and don’t worry what others may think. I have many health issues including PA, hypothyroidism, CKD, low folate, burning tongue syndrome, tinnitus, fibromyalgia and believe all are linked. I’ve had to cut back on work and re evaluate my life, but I’m actually quite happy with my lot! I think that as outwardly we aren’t obviously ill, others don’t always understand our daily struggles and this is just as true with close family, so I totally understand how you feel. Stay strong and be true to yourself. I hope you feel better soon.

[clivealive Forum Support]

Hi JSpark10 do you have Pernicious Anaemia or are you Vitamin B12 / Folate deficient?

Sadly depression, which is just one of many symptoms associated with the above, may be improved by replacement treatment.

Can you make an appointment with you doctor to see what treatment is available.

[BiancaB12]

I can relate to what you're saying. It's sad, but for some friendships, if you stop drinking, the friendship dissolves. If B12 is a problem, or any other deficiency, getting proper replacement therapy helps in a huge way. You're not alone, it's a common challenge, but better, stronger and more real friendships are worth seeking out.

[lifegems]

Can I ask why you quit going to bars ? I have PA but not seen or heard anything about alcohol??

[ThePATexan in reply to lifegems]

I was never a heavy drinker. Maybe a couple with friends a few times a week, but my overall well-being improved dramatically when I stopped. But I had also spent many years ridding my life of toxic “friends”. I keep a small collection of liquors at home & friends are happy to hang out here, with me, instead of going to a bar. Avoiding the cigarette smoke in most bars is another benefit for PA suffers. Not only is alcohol bad for PA sufferers, it can even cause anemia.

alcohol.org/effects/anemia/

[lifegems in reply to ThePATexan]

Thanks I’ll check out the link 😁

[ThePATexan in reply to lifegems]

I’m not the preachy-preachy type of person. I just know it made an exponential difference for me. I never drank more than one or two when I did, but I would feel like crap the next day anyway. Body aches, lethargy, general malaise and misery. When I found out the role it plays with us, I just stopped. Nothing changed between me & my friends. We rarely go to bars, but even in restaurant I will sometimes order something like soda & cranberry with a lime for the effect. After a year of not drinking, I decided to have ONE shot of Jaeger (that’s my go to drink) with my boyfriend and it was just like before. Taking a whole day to shake that achy, lethargic feeling again. With all of that in hindsight, it was an easy choice for me. Your toothy smiley face is crackin’ me up!!

[BirdlessBox in reply to lifegems]

Yes, alcohol drinking is listed in the risk factors for developing B12 deficiency, though I'm not sure if they mean heavy drinking or any drinking.

[lifegems in reply to BirdlessBox]

Hi. I was under the impression that it was alcoholism that could cause the PA not average drinking. I appreciate that stopping is more likely to make you feel better than continuing to drink however for me at any rate it feels a drastic step to stop. I do a lot of exercise and try to eat well but I don’t want to give up my glass of wine or two ! However if I do overdo it I can really feel it the next day. I think balance is the best option for me 😁

[pitney]

PA brings with it many symptoms that can be debilitating and make you feel alone even if you have friends around you. Try and meet up with people even if you only have a soft drink . Or if you are a member of PAS join a local support group or speak to Martin and start one yourself its a great way of making new friends and everyone knows what each other is going through.

Also try not to be to hard on yourself and if you want a quiet day to gather your strength spoil yourself with a treat ,you will be surprised at how just small things can help on a down day sometimes a walk in the fresh air can really lift you.

I hope you start to feel better soon and manage to rekindle your frindships

Take good care and all best wishes

[pollianna]

I don't have friends. I guess I am isolated. I am fine alone usually but do get lonely at times. I have a lot of issues with my grown up child who is almost 30. I am more of a sounding board in her eyes than a Mum. She has an awful lot of fun with her friends and I do the babysitting but never cracks a smile in my presence.

I continually get a long list of her problems . It really never ends..I gave up trying to verbally help her as everything is met with " yes but" I think for me that is the root of any depression I may feel.

I find that I am exhausted whenever she is here or I go there and it takes me hours, sometimes days to get back to my positive self.

I work and generally people take to me but I don't foster friendships at work as I just can't keep up with people. I have Lupus and B12 issues but I do wonder how much of my fatigue is down to being drained by her.

I am learning to go half as often and stay half as long.

I've learned to look after myself now I am in my 50s..I never did before and now I put myself first. Accepting things the way they are can be the first step to healing a depression

[BirdlessBox in reply to pollianna]

I'm glad to hear you are starting to put yourself first - better for your health - and she may stop taking you for granted and appreciate who you are and the help you give.

[Sleepybunny]

Hi,

I suffered depression for years, antidepressants didn't have any effect. It was only when I finally worked out it was B12 deficiency and got adequate treatment that the low mood I had felt for years lifted. I had to treat myself for a time as was unable to get B12 treatment from NHS in UK.

I feel very wistful when I think of all those wasted years feeling miserable. If I go without B12 for a period of weeks, the mood problems return.

Having a label of depression meant that doctors were less inclined to look for physical causes even though I kept saying there is something physically wrong. They would not listen to me when I told them that I was depressed because the physical symptoms I had eg pain, multiple neurological problems, prevented me from living the type of life I wanted to live.

I had spells when I felt very isolated and lonely as I did not always have the support I wanted from people around me. I'm not sure they all believed me when I insisted I was physically ill. The fact that no-one seemed to be fighting for me at a time when I could not fight easily for myself was the hardest thing I have ever gone through. I learnt a very hard life lesson.

If you have B12 deficiency and have mood issues, have you considered whether your B12 deficiency is being treated adequately?

Several years after starting treatment, I am in the best condition I have been for years and am doing more and being more sociable.

UK B12 documents

If you're in UK, I suggest reading all of these documents.

BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines

b-s-h.org.uk/guidelines/gui...

Flowchart from BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten...

BMJ B12 article

bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g5226

BNF

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/hydrox...

BNF guidance on treatment for B12 deficiency has changed recently.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

NICE CKS

cks.nice.org.uk/anaemia-b12...

B12 books I found useful

"What You Need to Know About Pernicious Anaemia and B12 Deficiency" by Martyn Hooper

Martyn Hooper is the chair of PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society). Book does not mention recent BNF change.

"Living with Pernicious Anaemia and Vitamin B12 Deficiency" by Martyn Hooper

Has several case studies.

"Could it Be B12?: An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses" by Sally Pacholok and JJ. Stuart (USA authors)

Very comprehensive with lots of case studies. There is also a paediatric version of this book "Could It Be B12? Paediatric Edition: What Every Parent Needs to Know".

Unhappy with Treatment (UK info)?

Letters to GPs about B12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/b12-writ...

Point 4 in letters link mentions mental health.

CAB NHS Complaints

citizensadvice.org.uk/healt...

HDA patient care trust

UK charity that offers free second opinions on medical diagnoses and medical treatment.

hdapatientcaretrust.com/

Support in UK

PAS support groups can be a place to make friends with people who understand.

PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society)

Based in Wales, UK.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

PAS tel no [phone] answerphone

There are 13 PAS support groups in UK

pernicious-anaemia-society....

B12d.org holds support meetings near Durham

b12d.org/event

B12 deficiency Info holds occasional B12 Cafe events near Leicester, don't think they have one planned for this year though.

b12deficiency.info/

Samaritans

samaritans.org/

Blog post about talking to family about B12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/blog/201...

B12 Deficiency and Mental Health

b12deficiency.info/b12-and-...

martynhooper.com/2017/01/22...

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten...

I am not medically trained.

[BirdlessBox in reply to Sleepybunny]

I so relate to what you wrote - the undermining effect of everyone thinking it's all in your head. And in dealing with the medicos it's not only disheartening - it's dangerous.

[Nackapan]

I think it's a time you really find who your friends are. I've been truly shocked by some of my long standing friends. I can't speak on the phone at present be in busy places drive very far atoo all on bed by 7-9pm. They have continued as if I'm not ill asking to meet up when it's a 40'-50 minute train ride away. I haven't been on a train since I'll. Some have simply stopped contacting me. In this day and age of what app text there really is no excuse. Send a card write a letter. I've done that which has taken or of effort. I realise I did all the running. So I'm pleased with the free that have bothered. I think very little of the othere now including some family. Difficult. A new chapter must begin. Never to late to make new friends. My neighbours have been amazing. You only need acknowledging and it makes a real difference. I do have a husband so not alone. He has to work so there are many hours alone and too often I'm on bed by the time he gets home. Hope you find a way to cope and don't get too down . There will be better days and better people in your life. Get help if you need it. Take care

[MoKayD]

I've been in therapy off and on for many years and found it very helpful when I was feeling social anxiety and was unable to connect with people. Since receiving B12 shots my social anxiety is nonexistent. My therapist was amazed by the difference. I've also found a social life by joining clubs, Church and other organizations. I belong to a book club which meets once of month. I've also joined a craft group and have formed a group that visits local museums once a month. Volunteering at my Church has helped me form meaningful friendships. Start slowly with one group or organization and you'll gain confidence. When I'm feeling socially unsure I remember what my former Pastor told me. He said that people want to hear your stories, please share them with the world.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support]

I have been totally honest with people about my symptoms and limitations: friends and family, employees and work colleagues, GPs, nurses and consultants.

I have quite often, when at my most ill, blamed people for putting demands on me, expecting more from me than I could give. Now I can see that this was frustration with myself, anger that I was unable to do more, that I was altered and that none of this was within my control. Mercurial mood swings can go up or down without cause- so for me, I didn't see the downs as "depression", but just another swing in mood. Often couldn't wait to be alone, go for a long long walk: what a relief to get away from noise, distractions, having to focus or concentrate or remember or listen or reply appropriately and just BE. This also I did not see as depression but a need to avoid sensory overload which seemed to sap all of my physical, mental and emotional energy leaving me nothing but exhaustion.

Look for kindness (and look for opportunities to be kind, once you are having some good days )- hopefully you won't always feel like this.

I found a lot of kindness and understanding here on the forum, and also from staff in the local library. I had to go there as I didn't have a computer and needed desperately to find out what was going wrong with me. I was angry, impatient, irritable, demanding, sad, cried a lot, was a nightmare, and couldn't see how to get back on track. Yet still there were people willing to help me, keeping me going. I am very thankful for that.

I'm a lot better now that I'm self-injecting and can inject when I need to, not trying to make the established pattern work for me and feeling like a failure or a fraud when it didn't.

Occasionally, I still need a "day off" to be alone and think of nothing at all. It recharges me. I also found that joining something, regaining interest in a hobby or subject you enjoy, can be a huge boost- but I could not have done this at my worst, nor would have wanted to. Not everything feels like a chore or a trial that I have to get through these days- some days feel like a reward now !

It takes time this. We are all at different stages, all need different treatment at different frequencies, all react differently. There are a lot of people here who have been you, felt how you feel now, and know how to help you to find your own solution. But it will be yours exclusively. I'm still a "work in progress". Very best wishes.

[Ryaan]

If you’re on about B12 deficiency then depression is one of the main symptoms. Deficient on Vitamin D also causes depression. Low on Folate causes fatigue and shortness of breath which some people think is part of depression and Iron deficiency is almost same as Folate deficiency.

If you have none of the above then you need to see a doctor for depression, most likely will give you anti depressants and if worse can refer you for psychotherapy who try to get to why you feel depressed.

Sometimes it can be pure mental thinking and how you think, mostly negative thinking.

If you have anxiety it doesn’t help your social life and there are tablets for anxiety disorders such as panic attacks, which men mostly suffer silently with. If you have family and friends talk to them about how you feel and be open about your depression/anxiety and don’t hide your feelings.

Being lonely doesn’t help and working is good for depression. Keep busy and don’t go in circles with your thoughts.

You need to accept you have a problem which is a mental problem but you have to know there’s a solution to every problem.

If you need some help talk to your doctor about counselling, medication, therapy and read up on the Internet on how to cope or get rid of depression.

Small changes make a big difference...aim for something positive and think positive although I don’t know your situation and I know it’s not as simple as it sounds.

Go out for walks...meet people, make new friends who don’t drink.

I’ve suffered from depression for over 21 years.

[JanCymru]

Really hope you have found some help from the folk on here. Not sure if you are in the UK, so things can be so different from country to country. Do you have any interests that you can pursue? Or, anything you've always wanted to do? Maybe joining an evening class or some craft pursuits, something to give yourself space to concentrate on and lose yourself....beadwork, jewellery making. Small projects to start with so you don't feel overwhelmed by the process! There are some lovely projects out there, like small felt brooches to make, and the materials needed are quite inexpensive. If you Google 'Laura 'Lupin' Howard - Bugs and Fishes blogspot, she's a lovely lady located in Weston-super-mare, Somerset, UK and she has little patterns to download for free which will get you started. She has a lovely newsletter to sign up too, and has herself very recently admitted to having some mental health issues, so you are certainly not alone. B12/PA certainly hits you in every way you can imagine, not just the physical. And as it's not on show like a broken leg cast you don't receive the sympathy! If you possibly can, give yourself a little push each day, so there is an achievable goal and outcome - something small to start with even if its only clearing a drawer or cupboard, and then take that to the charity shop. Start a conversation with the person in the shop. Take yourself off to your library. Wealth of information there, plus it's a hub of information for what is going on in the area. Don't give another thought to the toxic friends, they are not worth your valuable time or breath, well done for recognising the damage they can do. (Energy vampires, is often used and how right that is!!). Take each day, each hour singly, and don't berate yourself. We are too good at putting ourselves down, but rarely acknowledge or pat ourselves on the back. So, here's a little pat on the back from me, with love, in the nicest sense. Sending you a hug too.

[Ryaan]

I’ve left you a private message.

[Nanc72]

Sent you a private message

[Hanneke12]

Are bars too intense for you? I had a similar experience (not bars but birthdays and other busy gatherings were just too much for me to handle), did see friends one-on-one, but it felt really lonely. I joined a meditation group, where I could be in a group that was not talking. Sounds strange maybe but it really helped satisfy my need for social group contact.

Depression came much later, and has been solved with B12 injections. So hang in there!

[BirdlessBox]

Many years ago I came to the realisation that the people I was associating with, who drank etc, were not real friends - they were kind of circumstantial. I remember it took quite sometime to find new friends and that period was lonely. But I did - and the people I chose to have in my life were better for me. Over the past few years I have slowly become less able to keep up a social life and most of my relating is now down to a very few trustworthy meaningful friends. I am hoping the B12 will get me back to being able to make more effort myself and build up a few more. Two of the hardest things has been the judgement from people who think my malaise is a sign of poor character, and the undermining that comes from medicos that think all my problems are psychological. I am glad that more recent research is proving that you physical condition will effect your mental state -not just the other way around which has been the fashion and causes people to blame you for how you are. As many people have said the B12 will most probably help you feel better. Have a think about what kind of people you would really like in your life and when you have the energy move towards that. I'm sure you'll find it an improvement.