Some really good news for a change
Pfizer predicts vaccine by October. - Cure Parkinson's
Pfizer predicts vaccine by October.
Written by
MBAnderson
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213 Replies
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That is a quick rush. Before you take any vaccine I strongly recommend you see the documentary, "Vaxxed" and Vaxxed They can be found on Bitchute. I know, you think you know everything about vaccines because your doctor and some scientists support them. What harm would it do to learn about the other point of view which claims the Phizer news is terrible? Then you have a rationale for saying, "I can't wait to get the vaccine." When you see only one side of a story, how can you possibly decide whether vaccines, do what they claim, and they are safe? You don't know.....what you don't know. Would your health be at risk if you take a vaccine?
We will both go to jail, right Bepo? No vaccination for my husband and me.
Oh, but I do know both sides the story. Remember my explanation that it was an issue in our family (10 years ago) and I cast my vote in support of vaccinations?
That was 10 years ago. There is information that you most likely have not seen.........or don't want to see. What harm is it in seeing a well presented, professional documentary that presents the other point of view, backed with science. What happens to democracy when only one point of view is available to the majority of people. If you only see one side, your critical thinking is in the tank.
The timeline seems very aspirational. At the same time, "Vaxxed" is utter bollocks in its entirety.
bepo in reply to
I guess that means you watched it,.....in its entirety?
I hope it is ready this year and I hope it is safe & effective.
It takes years for a vaccine to prove safe. Are they contaminated with retroviruses? Is this the first time a vaccine will be crafted with RNA?
Me too & normally I would wait 'til a vaccine/Rx drug/medical device has been on the market a while. I refused to get Essure since it had only been on the market for a year or so when my then gynecologist was pushing it on me; I opted for tubal ligation instead and am glad I did (and changed gynos).
But this disease has me very worried. There's a study out on medical workers who had mild-moderate cases of covid and no comorbities - they has elevated levels of neurofilament light chain, a marker of neurological damage. Covid seemed to increase the typical age-related increase in NfL levels after age 35:
researchsquare.com/article/...
So I may decide to get the vaccine sooner rather than later.
I believe COVID is lethal for us PWPs.
Has anybody seen an article about Covid and PWP?
I haven't seen anything specifically related to PD. I have seen stuff related to AD - that apoE4 increases risk for covid infection. The hypoxia from covid could also increase risk for AD - so it could make onset come sooner. Vascular pericytes have both the ACE2 and TMPRSS2 receptors and could be targets of infection; pericytes are involved in AD pathology:
Sleep apnea increases risk for PD so I think the hypoxia from covid would be bad - but again I have not seen anything yet on PD & covid.
This in Italian, but push the flag and it change language:
"Two major studies published on parkinsonian patients with Covid
In a preliminary study, the C. Besta Neurological Institute in Milan consulted 141 Parkinsonian patients belonging to the Institute and residing in Lombardy. It was found that 12 of them were affected with COVID-19 (average age 65.5 years, disease duration 6.3 years). Their characteristics were compared to those of 36 Parkinsonian control patients of the same age, sex and disease duration, who had not contracted the infection. The researchers found a worsening of Parkinson's symptoms which required correction of therapy in one third of cases. The deterioration was due to infection-related mechanisms and the impact of infection on the pharmacokinetics of parkinsonian therapy. Among non-motor symptoms, urinary symptoms and fatigue were particularly problematic."
parkinson.it/nuove-scoperte...
Thanks for the information. It feels weird to click on the little heart to show appreciation for a post when the news is bad.
I have read reports that covid appears to break down the blood brain barrier and of course there's also the hypoxemia and microthrombi. They are also finding brain autoantibodies in some recovered patients ; the disease seems to promote production autoantibodies and if the BBB is compromised then I guess brain autoantibodies may develop:
thailandmedical.news/news/c...
Pericytes are involved in maintenance of the BBB. In SARS they found persistent elevation (12 years post infection) of lysophosphatidylinositol (LPI) and other disturbances in lipid metabolism. LPI is also implicated in disruption of the BBB. So far I have seen two lipidomics studies on covid and neither one measured LPI (frustrating). Here's the SARS study; the authors suggest (and I think they are incorrect or at least there's no compelling evidence to support the idea) that it was treatment with methylprednisolone that caused the changes:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/288...
What could cause such long lasting changes? I hope not, but it is possible the infection causes epigenetic alterations:
rhyobrain.blogspot.com/2020...
There was one journal letter to the editor that reported that a bioinformatics analysis found that alteration in the dopamine synthetic pathway is possible in covid:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...
Gut uptake of tryptophan is dependent on ACE2 and disruption of ACE2 in the gut could lead to lower serotonin levels; however I am not clear on whether SARS-CoV-2 binding would affect the amino acid transport function of ACE2:
This is one of the metabolomics/lipidomics studies I mentioned above (that didn't measure LPI!):
academic.oup.com/nsr/articl...
The 'heat map' figure is a bit hard to read. Serotonin and dopamine are lower in severe (S1, S2) and mild cases (M1, M2) vs. healthy controls. In fatal (F1 etc.) cases, though, serotonin is lower only in the first reading. I can't find dopamine listed for fatal cases, just l-Dopa, which is lower in F1 & F4, but not F2 & F3.
I understand your concern
About the research I posted doesn't seem so bad.
The body has its own mostly unknown mechanisms of reaction and sometimes it repairs itself in these cases. Just because there's an anomaly in the structure doesn't mean the overall function is compromised.
You keep thinking that....will it be a self-fulling prophecy? If you are building your immune however you can, and watching your diet, another self-fulfilling prophecy could be....Even though I have PD, I will not get a serious case of Covid.
just what we need - another cause of neuronal damage.
......without testing, you will not know if it is safe. They are rushing this through. It won't be safe for anyone, until they can do proper testing.
If Pfizer submits for approval by October, the FDA will come under tremendous pressure, from a certain individual, to approve.
Market value of Pfizer jumped by about $5 billion after that interview.
The CEO says FDA approval may occur in October and that they are going to scale up production before approval. I smell shortcuts.
The vaccine will be looking for ema and other international approval too. Trump won't be in a position to influence them. That said all approval agencies share a sense of urgency on this one.
Big bucks to be made by the pharmaceuticals, including Phizer dir a vaccine. Are the vaccine companies, ( of who, Bill Gates is the largest owner), run by the profit motive or do they really care about their patients?
What has the pharmaceutical companies profit motive got to do with the independence of the EMA as a regulator responsible for approving a vaccine or any other drug for use? rtfq
Exactly, who is independent? How do we really know? childrenshealthdefense.org/...
I bet you vaccinate your dog. Is it only people's health you gamble with - confident that the universal consensus of experts is wrong. You are free to choose. Nobody will compel you to be vaccinated. Although society is free to impose restrictions on you. You may not be able to persuade a kennel to admit you. Just as today America is free to choose not to place as high a value on human life as most of the rest of the planet, and not to take responsibility for controlling the pandemic, and the rest of the world is free to lock them out and prohibit their travel to other countries. It may well be in the future that if American citizens are again able to travel they will need a valid vaccination certificate in addition to a visa and passport. As will anyone wishing to return from a visit to the USA.
in reply to WinnieThePoo
I doubt the typical anti-facter has much interest in international travel.
WinnieThePoo in reply to
You may well be right. But choices have consequences and travel restrictions have a major economic impact as well as the personal freedom ones. Is there any truth in the rumour that Mexico wants to build a wall?
Shortcuts... absolutely will cause problems...maybe immediate, and maybe further down the line.
What are the adverse health consequences for a person suffering a covid19 infection 5years after infection? What percentage of people experiencing a mild or asymptomatic covid19 infection will have lung, liver, brain, heart damage problems 5 years after infection?
youtube.com/watch?v=bPDVzt7...
Melatonin fights blood clots and damage to endothelial cells through multiple pathways and mechanisms of action. Dr. Neel has not mentioned these issues in his over 400 patient experience so far. Nor has he mentioned any patients having a cytokine storm or the consequent pneumonia and most importantly he has not mentioned any deaths among those 400+ patients!
Art
As per you, I just got a huge bottle in the mail today and I'm up to 20 mg a day. Not enough?
Good to know that you tolerate it, Marc! I don't think Dr. Neel has mentioned taking it before being diagnosed as positive for covid though. He basically waits till his patient tests positive and then he uses high dose to very high dose melatonin from that point forward, but you are close to the 10 mg PD randomized double blind placebo controlled study that showed benefit in PWP.
On another topic, will you be doing another update any time soon on your FUS procedure? I'm interested!
Art
9 mos report due 9/11. That said, I do believe my progression has stopped, although the tremor in my right hand has worsened and is bad. I'm feeling a little better than I did at my 90 day report -- 6/11. I'm very happy with it.
My problem is 14 weeks out of the gym. We went to Switzerland March 6 so my last day in the gym was March 3 and I resumed on June 13. In the interim I've wasted away. I've been going every day since. Just now getting a decent workout, but only for 30 minutes. Just a few days ago went from walking 2 miles a day to 4 miles a day.
It's going to be a long uphill battle to get back to where I was.
How are you doing?
marc
I'm glad the results are holding up well for you, Marc! I love a good success story, especially from you, who was overdue for some success!
I went through a rough patch, but am back on the mend and I feel that HDM may be a contributing factor based on what is known about its effects in humans as well as my personal response. Just anecdotal at best, but I'll gladly take it! This is the best I have been in months!
Art
So glad to hear that.
It's worth the effort to get back where you were.
People need to be aware of how our bodies were designed to fight off infections......build the immune with natural substances, not chemicals. Hydrogen Peroxide cured 100 out of 100 patients in one doctor's office, alone. (If they say they have cured, the FDA, who is a patent holder of vaccines, will shut them down.)
I don't believe that about hydrogen peroxide.
You might want to dig deeper. It could save your life, were you to become infected with any virus, including Covid.
The FDA does not hold the patent on the vaccines currently under development. That is false.
bepo, you once said Bill Gates is going to put a microchip in every vaccination so he can track where people go, but you never answered my question regarding this.
Why does Bill Gates care where I go??
It's a matter of controlling the population. This would ensure everyone had their vaccine. He is the largest manufacturer of vaccines in the world. He is also the largest contributor to the WHO. If the WHO says everyone in the world needs a vaccine.......
There are billions to be made. You might need a new vaccine every year. Law enforcement could use the chips for tracking . Not only would our medical freedoms be removed, but also our freedoms as individuals. In my opinion, this is far worse than the new virus.
The CDC and Fauci also hold patents on vaccines.
Off the top of my head, I would prefer that gov't employees of NIH did not hold patents, but I don't know the safeguards around such practices. Along with others, he is a joint patent holder on patents that are from 5 to 15 years old. That does not mean the coronavirus vaccine will be unsafe. None are connected to Covid.
Hmmm.... are you sure about that? What about Moderna.....? and several others?
The Government gives money to these institutions to craft medicines and vaccines. Some of the employees in these institutions get royalties from their patents, that the American people pay for.
How did Bill Gates get to be where he is now the head of Global Health?
youtube.com/watch?v=xmoTebY...
bepo, answer this; is Bill Gates clever enough to;
1) make a microchip small enough that it can flow through the needle of the vaccination syringe,
2) then float around inside a person's body without getting lodged somewhere or causing inflammation or being excreted in the pee or poop
3) and have a GPS in it to track the person's location
4) and have a transponder to broadcast a signal to micro towers
so the Bill Gates can go, "Oh, I see Marc Anderson is at the gym, but he has only been there 43 minutes. I'll have to put that in my logbook." "Oh my goodness, now Marc Anderson is walking his dog."
He already is. The technology has been there for years. If you have trouble researching, I will find the link for you. Let me know. The only advantage of 5G, (there are tons of disadvantages to peoples' health,) is survellance......with implanted chips, cell phones?
ahrp.org/micro-chip-technol...
This article only talks about a microchip that can be embedded in a tattoo. (In any case, I don't give this publication much credibility.)
Please review my question and provide me evidence that a microchip that meets all four of those qualities exist, but better still, explain to me why Bill Gates wants to track my whereabouts.
usatoday.com/story/tech/201...
This sounds like what is occuring in China.
The Details Of "Patent 666"
Microsoft's new patent is about mining cryptocurrency. The patent allows for the creation of a device that tracks a human's physical activity or reactions to certain tasks using a variety of sensors, and generates cryptocurrency in response. Furthermore, it patents a network that can give specific instructions to humans wearing the device. In English, Microsoft is looking into something like a cross between Folding@home and Fitbit that connects to a cloud and rewards people for certain tasks, while also mining for Bitcoin. It's as unlikely (or as likely!) to be a harbinger of the new world order as any cryptocurrency. None of this means Microsoft will ever build this device because companies literally patent things on a daily basis as a just-in-case. It's worth considering Microsoft currently hasn't shipped a wearable device since it abandoned the Microsoft Band 2 in 2015, and that Bill Gates doesn't even work there anymore.
armstrongeconomics.com/worl...
latimes.com/business/techno...
the microchip will be linked to your wallet not to the location of course LOL 😂
or cellphone and then wallet.
No, at the place of work
is the W0/2020/060606 international patent.
snopes.com/fact-check/bill-...
OMG! You still believe in Snopes and FactChecker? Bill Gates is the biggest owner. Now, I know you say that is conspiracy theorist propaganda, but I think you need to turn that around to Snopes and Fact Checkers.
It's kinda hard to marshall evidence if you going to claim that Bill Gates owns everything that disagrees with you.
PS. We both have said all there is to say about this. I gotta quit. PM me if you have original stuff to add.
Absolutely. If you are the richest man in the world, and you want everyone vaccinated, you will, and did, buy up companies that will reinforce your point of view with propaganda. You obviously didn't watch the above video about how Gates monopolized the world's health.
We are too far afield from PD issues to carry-on. IF you want to talk about it further p.m. me.
Are we really?? You stated because you have PD, you will die. I think it's very pertinent.
Sometimes people look at an onion, and see the shiny skin, it's outter appearance. What they don't see are the complex layers under the skin of the onion. I am sure it is frightening to look at things from a different point of view. I, for one have heard, and read probably everything about Covid and heard the media. Since Gates took over Factcheckers and Snopes, it is much more difficult to find the real, inner layers of the onion. When one refuses to become educated, there is presumably a great fear there.
If I were rich I'd invest in mask companies. I'd want to sell them cheap so everyone could have access. Isn't it possible that that's Gates' mindset?
I think for him it's definitely the vaccines. Now, he is saying they will probably need to be applied more than once. ChaChing, ChaChing.
The thing I can't figure out, is why he needs to earn any more money. I can only guess it is about the power and control. His vaccines have been injuring and killing people in third world countries. They are not safe.
Abiometric digital identity platform that “evolves just as you evolve” is set to be introduced in “low-income, remote communities” in West Africa thanks to a public-private partnership between the Bill Gates-backed GAVI vaccine alliance, Mastercard and the AI-powered “identity authentication” company, Trust Stamp.
The program, which was first launched in late 2018, will see Trust Stamp’s digital identity platform integrated into the GAVI-Mastercard “Wellness Pass,” a digital vaccination record and identity system that is also linked to Mastercard’s click-to-play system that powered by its AI and machine learning technology called NuData. Mastercard, in addition to professing its commitment to promoting “centralized record keeping of childhood immunization” also describes itself as a leader toward a “World Beyond Cash,” and its partnership with GAVI marks a novel approach towards linking a biometric digital identity system, vaccination records, and a payment system into a single cohesive platform. The effort, since its launch nearly two years ago, has been funded via $3.8 million in GAVI donor funds in addition to a matched donation of the same amount by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
The CDC, who is supported by taxpayers own more than 50 patents related to vaccines. They get royalities. Are we really seeing the true picture?
bepo,
My thinking about H2O2 if, you are referring to inhaled H2O2 is that I feel it can kill SARS CoV-2 in the lungs effectively, if caught very early in the viral process, but I do not believe that inhaled H2O2 can kill virus in other areas of the body and SARS CoV-2 has been found in every major organ. If it is used too late in the disease process when there is fluid building up in the lungs and possibly pneumonia getting started, I am highly doubtful that it will be effective enough to eliminate all of the virus in the lungs as the fluid and possibly mucus in the lungs will interfere with its oxidative attack on the virus while the bodies own antioxidants such as catalase are neutralizing the H2O2 into water and oxygen.
Although H2O2 can get to the blood from the lungs, I do not believe it will be enough or long enough lasting because it is an oxidant and that is its method of destroying the virus, the natural antioxidant defense system of the body will neutralize the small amount of H2O2 that actually gets into the blood leaving virus that is in the tissues of the major organs relatively untouched. I believe the same about silver nanoparticles, that it will be too little in the blood to destroy the virus.
Melatonin appears to blunt the cytokine storm and the innate immune over response and allows the adaptive immune response to create antibodies to destroy the virus as the immune response is supposed to do, but is often times overtaken by the over response of the innate immune system which can end up allowing a cytokine storm to get started. With no cytokine storm, there will likely be no pneumonia and no pneumonia means no ventilator.
Art
Are they still using ventilators? They were killing people.
No, they were dying anyway from cytokine storm and doctors were desperately trying whatever they could to stem the tide. Potent steroids such as dexamethasone has been used successfully. One more reason to use masks and wash hands and wait for a vaccine.
That precise 5 year data is not yet known and won't be until 5 years has passed, but the available autopsies suggest significant damage to all major organs including the brain that may or may not recover over time. This is based on damage seen in the autopsies. There is basically less than one year of experience with this virus, so long term effects are essentially unknown and can only be speculated on based on what autopsies are showing.
Obviously less damage is more likely in people who have mild to moderate symptoms and never experience a cytokine storm, pneumonia or a ventilator, but people above 60 and other high risk groups are much more likely to experience long term health consequences from covid-19 assuming they survive the initial infection.
This latest MedCram gives a clue as to what the longer term effects of Covid-19 might be :
youtube.com/watch?v=tFXr14x...
Art
I treat Covid 19 the same as I would shooting myself in the head with a 45, i.e., it's absolutely, positively death -- and I believe that's true of any PWP >70. (I'm 74.)
I'm pouring down the zinc, vitamin D, melatonin, (and everything but the kitchen sink,) but honestly, I don't believe it'll save me. I just think a lot of our systems are compromised even though if it weren't for PD, I consider myself pretty healthy.
What do you think?
Well, I'm not in your shoes, Marc, but I think you have a very high probability of survival with what is currently available and I consider myself a pessimist!
Art
Why, when you are building your immune, would you get this flu? Exercise? Good Sleep?
Simple. Because my immune is not strong enough to prevent it.
Even if I slept well every night, which I don't, and exercised the proper amount every day, which I don't, my immune system would still be too compromised to prevent becoming infected.
Anyone who feels they can beat Covid by building up their immune system doesn't need to bother staying in their house.
Personally, I don't believe there's anything ANY PWP > 70 can do to prevent Covid except stay in the house.
As one doctor explained on a podcast, what you are doing is not living. ....being locked up in your house, avoiding social contact. How is your immune related to the toxic chemicals you have as a result from agent orange? They are not related. Your immune system is what prevents you from getting viruses and bacterial diseases.
They might be related. My immune system wasn't strong enough to prevent the effects of Agent Orange but may well have prevented dozens of other toxicants from impacting me.
Your immune system fights viruses and bacteria. Your immune system has nothing to do with agent orange or glyphosate, roundup or other chemicals that are also poisoning our food sources. Those are chemicals the body doesn't recognize. Do a detox to get rid of what caused your PD in the beginning. Get rid of the heavy metals and DDT, 2-4D, Dioxin, etc. Saunas are a good, proven way to sweat out the culprits.
youtube.com/watch?v=Ui6c5zR... New medicine comes along and old medicine is forgotten. But then some old medicine is found to be useful. Ozone was commonly used from 1900 til penicillin was developed in the early 1940's. It worked so well that doctors got rid of their ozone generators. Now it's been found ozone can treat infections resistant to antibiotics. The video is of a doctor, recently deceased, who learned AHT from his father, also a doctor. The procedure is so simple most believe it can't be worthwhile. But I've used it myself and used it successfully in my veterinary practice. Being a life-long hypochondriac covid is on my mind constantly. So what do I do. I wear a mask outdoors, wash my hands like a racoon and take 10mg melatonin nightly. Once I move to Massachusetts I'll have access to my supply of syringes and needles and can do AHT on myself. One treatment weekly keeps the macrophage levels up to 22% vs 2% in untreated people. Macrophage is the blood cell that finds, attacks and kills all abnormal cells like cancer cells, bacteria, viruses, toxins and fungi. I used it to treat a DVT in my shoulder.
Since this therapy has been around since 1900s, with some pretty bold claims, shouldn't there be some NIH studies?
When you say you've used it yourself for DVT, what were the results?
"In 2019, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) warned against using ozone therapy. This is because there is not enough evidence to conclude that it is effective or safe for medical use. "
medicalnewstoday.com/articl...
It works! Dr. Shallenberger and Dr. Robert Rowen have sucessfully used ozone therapy since the 1980's. When you research them you will find the word 'quack' associated with them. The word 'quack' was coined during the first few years of the pharmaceuticals. The pharmaceuticals said they would build medical schools, teach the pharma model, and there needed to be at least one board member of the mediacl schools from that pharma company. If you were a pharmaceutical, i.e. Pfzier, Would you want something such as ozone, which is natural to our bodies, interfering with your profit margins.....either now or ever?
The FDA demands multiple double-blind studies before recommending a treatment. Not every doctor blindly follows the FDA. If I see positive results when using ozone that's good enough for me.
Someone asked about a DVT: Deep Vein Thrombosis. I had one in my shoulder. Narcotics barely helped. In the video the doctor talks about treating a colleague with a DVT successfully using AHT. I did exactly what he did and the pain was gone in two days.
George passed, with flying colors, the bio-energy testing done with Dr. Shallenberger. I didn't do as well. The doc said, that if it weren't for his PD, his health was wonderful.
Agree with Art. High probability of survival. Might effect long term symptoms but what do I know?
Hi ParlePark & Art,
the Michael J Fox foundation has several good webinars and podcasts on PWP and Covid, which I just listened to, and naturally, you both are correct. A PWP can survive getting Covid, however, I'm still inclined to treat as a death sentence. -- especially after the article you (PP) posted on long-term effects. It was still wreaking havoc on virtually every system in that poor woman's body 4 months later.
Have either of you seen any articles or data on Covid and PWP in my age group > 74?
Marc, no I haven’t. I have a more positive attitude as worry does nothing but make things worse, as we all know. None of us can predict what will occur (or not) and at what severity to us. Like you, I eat right, try to get enough sleep, use supplements and exercise as much as possible. All we can do. Heads up dude! We’ll be fine.
Never has a vaccine had a placebo challenge test. Never. Vaccine makers in the US are not liable for any injuries their vaccines cause, as of 1998. The number of vaccines after that time, increased in children, so now that have 72 before they are 18. What is in those vaccines? A good debate is on Valuetainment on YouTube between Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Alan Derschowitz, both attorneys. Alan believes there should be mandatory vaccinations with Covid-19. What do you think?
in reply to bepo
Are you not worried about bill gates sending a pharma hit man to your house to prevent you from spreading the truth?
MBAnderson in reply to
ha
If the federal government does not have the gumption to make masks mandatory, they certainly do not have the fortitude to make vaccinations mandatory -- and won't.
Actually, I don't care if they do or don't. What the US government says is the very last opinion on which I base my decisions.
Watch the debate. Learn about masks.
what debate?
The one I posted. The debate between Alan Dershowitz and Robert F. Kennedy about the mandatory mask wearing and vaccines. You can find it on "Valuetainment" on YouTube. Dershowitz has stated it is consitutional to wear masks and vaccinations, in certain situations. What do you think? It's a good, civil debate.
I think Alan Dershowitz is a reasonably accused pedophile and a moron -- because, among other things, he argued that it was unconstitutional to impeach a president.
There are no words that could fall out of his mouth that I would care about.
Watching Tweedledee debate Tweedledum seems like a waste of time to me.
When you already know everything there is to know, then you are well educated. If you don't know, what you don't know, are you well educated?
So much for education. Are you getting yours, essentially, from the same source?
Throw out the messenger with the message....how does that work?
Why do you discredit Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.? He is a hero to millions of people, including me.
Well, I understand if you think the man is morally corrupt. Who knows for sure? There is still something to be learned.
We should all reflect upon what is the common thread between being anti-vaccination and being anti-mask? I don't think they have anything to do with each other. The common thread is the mindset of the person, i.e., someone who gravitates toward conspiracy theories about one will gravitate toward conspiracy theories about the other .
Sorry. That doesn't apply. I have done my research. It's difficult now, because so much has been suppressed,. My research is based on scientific evidence. When you cast aspersions, you, in essence, are name calling. That is not civil nor does it give you any credibility. It deflects from the real issues.
Still, how do you go from being anti-vaccination to anti-mask wearing? What else do they have in common?
How do you explain all the scientists in other countries all over the world, many of whom are not allies of the US, who advocate wearing a mask?
When something is mandated, that is a problem. Our freedoms and liberty are at stake. Anyone who wants to wear a mask and get vaccines, by all means should. There is no science that proves wearing a mask or getting vaccines would halt this virus or keep others safe.
Not exactly about scientists all over the world. There are many who question the safety of vaccines and the safety of wearing masks. Many agree that voluntary distancing is probably a good thing.
Many of those scientists from around the world are listening to the WHO....who listen to The CDC. The corruption if rampant. How do I know this?
I admire Sweden, and South Korea for their approach.
I believe they were opposite approaches. Sweden went for heard immunity and that hasn't worked out so well for them. South Korea did a lot of contact tracing.
Sweden, except for the care homes and providing safety for the elderly, has a model that has worked. The proof for Sweden will be irrefutable in another year or so. What will happen is that the people who were in lockdown, in other parts of the world, will be exposed once again to the virus lockdown is repealed. The death rate, with all things considered, will be about the same, without the unbelieveable destruction to the economy.
My son has 3 restaurants. He has outdoor seating, but cannot make a profit with only partial capacity being utilized. His rent runs about $36,000 a month for all 3 restaurants combined. There's no way he can make it. I worry about his stress levels, as well as all the others who have lost their income, their incentive to work harder, and who see no future in the businesses they have worked years to build. They are in total limbo. The suicide rates were predicted with lockdown. How many suicides has Sweden had during Covid?
in reply to bepo
nationalpost.com/news/world...
Let me guess. Pharma got to him? Bill Gates threatened him? Jimmy Hoffa sent Elvis and Tupac to his house? Aliens??
bepo in reply to
Anders Tagnel, Sweden's health doc agreed that he got it wrong with the care facilities and the elderly. Look at his latest pronouncements for July.
in reply to bepo
Oh so an immediate family member has a significant financial interest in opening back up. What a surprise. Could you be any more of a hypocrite?
I guess it really was "follow the money" after all.
bepo,
If credibility is the issue, please do not bring someone forward for review who has zero credibility in Dershowitz. I won't look or listen to anything he has to say and the same to anyone who would get involved in a debate about anything with him. I don't think he is worthy of credibly debating anything.
Art
Well, I have to agree with you in part. He is a constitutional lawyer. and professor at Harvard. He has information that is related to the constitutionally of mandating masks and lockdowns, and eventually vaccinations.
Darn right, Art. Dershowitz lives up to his name. He is a showman. He talks from both sides of his mouth and takes the side the suits him best. I still remember quite well how he vigorously defended OJ Simpson and openly suggested that OJ should play the race card. He even suggested that OJ should fire his white attorney and hire a prominent black one who ended up being Cochran.
Now, he speaks entirely in favor of Donald J Trump and has an excuse for everything that DJT does, including Trump's obviously glaring display of racism and the virulent display of hatred for Black Lives Matter.
Dershowitz is the prime example of an opportunistic, ambulance chasing lawyer in search of fame, notoriety and fortune.
And let us not forget, he might still be a child predator which we will know pretty soon if he is linked with Epstein's girlfriend Maxwell.
Alan Dershowitz has acknowledged that he slept over at Jeffrey Epstein house. How many grown men have sleepovers?
Since he has been accused by not one, but 2 underage women of forcing them the have sex, he has begun to attack 'age-of-consent laws.'
"That only increased this week with the publication of a New Yorker story by reporter Connie Bruck, detailing not just Dershowitz’s role in defending Epstein, but also allegations by two women who say that they were directed to have sex with Dershowitz while in Epstein’s orbit. Dershowitz vehemently denies both allegations.
Despite widespread attention to his role in the Epstein case — and a defamation suit from one of his accusers — Dershowitz has no intention of laying low. For instance, he continues to publicly criticize age-of-consent laws — most recently on Twitter, earlier this week.
For some, his defense of Epstein is a reminder of the way the American legal system continues to favor powerful men who can pay high-profile attorneys.
But Dershowitz sees himself as the wronged party, victimized by women who are lying about him, but determined to clear his name." VOX news.
He is a lowlife personified.
By chance have you read much of his main accuser and j lawyer ?
He is a lawyer. What lawyer’s do. Not perfect by far lot but better Than Iran, n Korea and others. The ideal is correct sometimes not the practice
Innocent till proven guilty if guiltyhr should pay. If innocent let the accuser should pay.
Alan Dershowitz has publicly acknowledged sleeping over Jeffrey Epstein's house and has publicly acknowledged getting a massage from the girls, but claims he left his underwear on. Oh, please.
Here's proof
youtube.com/watch?v=hbPi8vG...
Innocent till proven guilty. If he abuse underage children guilty. He has an interesting book (free) digital nook. Providing considerable amount of hard evidence. I don’t make an opinion till I hear the fact, and in court. I also don’t base my opinion on who he represented as much as I may not like the defendants have never been a fan of Dershowitz but doesn’t mean he’s guilty of everything.
Whether he is guilty of that or not, he wrote an op-ed piece for the Boston Globe making the case that the age of consent for teenage girls to have sex (with him ) should be lowered.
bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/....
I pronounce him guilty (of being a low life.)
And your entitled to that opinion. He’s not on my rardar. I read the free book not for him but for Epstein, maxwell and a host of others + it was free and frees good
What does the Boston Globe piece have to do with his understanding of the Constitution, and what constitutes our freedoms? Can masks be forced? Can vaccinations be mandated? What does he have to say the Constitution states about it? You might want to be informed.
I abhor child predators, but I can also learn from them.
It is a debate on mandatory rules that apply to Covid, that effect all of us. When you kill the messenger because he is a lowlife, will you be educated to his message? Can one not learn from him because he is morally corrupt? I don't like the man, personally, but, he is brilliant. He says the U.S. government can mandate masks and lockdowns, and vaccines. Robert Kennedy, jr, challenges his opinions. There is factual information to support both sides. It is extremely informative.
Here is the problem in a nutshell, to me, regarding Dershowitz. He has lied on multiple occasions in public and on the news, that makes every word that comes out of his mouth suspect and definitely unreliable. I prefer to get important information from people who are known for delivering true facts. Not being privy to everything that goes on behind the scenes means that I will make bad choices in the people I trust every now and again.
Starting out with someone who already has an established track record for lying though, is just begging to get really bad information and I will have nobody to blame, but myself if I do that.
It is my life experience that I do better if I listen to others who are more noted for telling the truth than lying.
Art
Point taken.
Have you looked at Children's Health Defense? There is a lot of credible science there, bypassing Dershowvitz?
I don't think this is a time to discuss any political party. Then, you really get people taking sides, based on political preference rather than the issues.
For me, this is not a political discussion. Dershowitz has established his pattern of lying and I simply am not interested in giving the time of day to a proven liar! I'm not replying to this line of thinking any more. I've made it as clear as I know how to.
I'm going to listen to music now!
Art
in reply to bepo
Childrenshealthdefence is run by an attorney (note: no formal medical education whatsoever) whose own family has gone out of their way to publicly state that he is wrong about all of it.
But of course, they are just secret agents of Pharma.
bepo in reply to
What is more important than family members disagreeing with one another, is the credible, evidence based science he has available on his site. I would like to see their science.
in reply to bepo
You should research more. You claim to be a researcher.
bepo in reply to
Well, that is small peanuts. Bill Gates runs the WORLD health system, and he has no medical training. Who is Bill Gates? How did he achieve the monopolization of the world health? Curious? Or do you already have all the answers? Does this make sense? Is this a possibility?
Look at YouTube: youtube.com/watch?v=wQSYdAX...
Totally agree Marc! She’s like a broken record. If I read her posts at all it’s for entertainment only.
Where exactly are you getting your information?Well, you may be basing your opinions on.......
"In 2016, Big Pharma is estimated to have spent nearly $30 billion in marketing in the US, primarily targeting medical professionals, including through ads in peer-reviewed journals and direct-to-physician payments. Approximately $6 billion was spent on direct-to-consumer advertising, with pharmaceutical ads representing an estimated 8 percent of total ad revenue for major news networks like CBS, ABC, NBC, and CNN.
" Does the NY Times receive any incentives?
"Additionally, the industry has been shifting its focus from television and print ads to online ads. Top beneficiaries of this shift include WebMD and Medscape, which Google often features in its “answer box” for health-related search queries. Facebook, too, has been competing for pharma ad dollars, by rolling out a new feature enabling pharmaceutical companies to promote their products with Facebook ads while remaining in compliance with regulations that require the disclosure of important safety information, which is accomplished by having the safety information appear in a scrolling section featured below the ad. "
How credible are your sources?
"And, of course, with Big Pharma spending tens of millions of dollars lobbying Congress each year, it’s little wonder that we’ve seen efforts to censor information and eliminate choice. For example, Congressman Adam Schiff last year sent letters to the CEOs of Facebook, Google, and Amazon calling on these companies to do more to stop the spread of what he euphemistically called vaccine “misinformation”, by which he simply meant any information, no matter how factual, that could cause parents “to disregard the advice of their children’s physician and public health experts and decline to follow the recommended vaccination schedule.”
What can you possibly mean by saying never has a vaccine had a placebo challenge test?
They never have placebo controlled studies.( If you read any of the information I have provided, you probably would have learned that.)
There was a law that was passed in 1986 stating vaccine manufacturers aren't liable if the recipients of those vaccines have adverse effects, including death. They don't need to do any safety studies. No vaccine has EVER been proven safe. There are no placebo controlled studies. There probably won't be any studies on the covid vaccines. It's all about profit.
The vaccine manufacturers don't care about the people. They care about their profits. I think Fauci stated there were placebo controlled studies, but there never have been. Why would they waste the time and money? They get a free ride. Create a vaccine. Maybe test it on some animals, maybe not. Rush to market. No responsibilities.
There is some evidence to suggest Covid patients who had the flu vaccine had a much poorer response to Covid. Read what are in the vaccines........ Or, be one of the first to get the covid vaccine. Your choice.
No placebo testing. The Moderna vaccine was tested “on 45 people. They had a high-dose group of 15 people, a medium-dose group of 15 people, and a low growth group of 15 people.”
“In the low-dose group, one of the people was so sick from the vaccine they had to be hospitalized,” he explained. “That’s six percent. In the high-dose group, three people got so sick they had to be hospitalized. That’s twenty percent.”
“They use what they call exclusionary criteria,” Kennedy said. “They are only giving these vaccines in these tests that they’re doing to the healthiest people.”
“If you look at their exclusionary idea criteria: You cannot be pregnant, you cannot be overweight, you must have never smoked a cigarette, you must have never vaped, you must have no respiratory problems in your family, you can’t suffer asthma, you can’t have diabetes, you can’t have rheumatoid arthritis or any autoimmune disease. There has to be no history of seizure in the family. These are the people they’re testing the vaccine on.”
I just found out a bunch of really interesting stuff on the potential roll of toll like receptor 4 in covid and I thought of you since you wrote about licorice and glycyrrhizin is a TLR4 antagonist.
Megakaryocytes have been found in
clots in covid patients and it is weird since normally they stay in
the bone marrow and are supposed to be busy making platelets there;
however, there are some in the lungs and the lungs are a site of
platelet generation. So it is possible (all this is speculative) that
the infection alters megakaryocyte behavior, causing them to migrate
from the lung tissue, get into the bloodstream and clog up the
microvasculature; platelet function may also be affected.
Megakaryocytes also express TLR4 receptors and TLR4 may directly
interact with SARS-CoV-2.
TLR4 is also expressed by endothelial cells
and activation of endothelial TLR4 causes microvascular inflammation.
Again, this is highly speculative; I hope there are some
investigations on TLR4 in covid as there are drugs in development
that target TLR4 and also a number of natural products.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/323...
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/307...
Interesting!
whew
EXCELLENT article.
"The Pandemic Could Get Much, Much Worse. We Must Act Now." Opinion NY Times
Mmm when he says the first doses will be made available to the vulnerable to me that sounds like they want to experiment on the poor and the desperate. And the people who won’t sue if it all goes to custard.
I’ve heard that before after the Christchurch earthquakes. The insurers wanted the poor and sick and elderly to let them know so they could be prioritised, then they knew who was weak and who they could rip off. Sorry, I’m cynical.
Personally I'm not worried about a potentially harmful vaccination going to the poor 1st. I am quite confident when they declare a vaccination suitable for public consumption, the wealthy countries and the wealthy in those countries will get the vaccination 1st -- for sure.
Well, that's not what has happened in India and Africa.
How is a vaccine declared suitable, or safe? If offered to you by Pfizer in October, would you be a volunteer?
If it is offered in October, I will not be the 1st to volunteer only because 'you know who' would be involved in FDA approval.
I would be waiting for the place to open. I will allow them to inoculate me.
This post has just nothing to do in this Parkinson Disease thread !
I agree!! I have had enough. Just go on twitter and rant about President Trump.
My apology. I've gone back and deleted all my political references.
Since Covid is especially dangerous for PWP, it is relevant to PWP's health.
The reason I post material about Covid is to encourage people to do whatever they can to avoid it, because I think it's fatal for us.
You avoid it by boosting your immune system, which was designed to fight off infections.
in reply to bepo
You are wrong. The best strategy is avoiding exposure. Plenty of young people (who have stronger immune systems than your typical >60 individual (and i mean healthy, nevermind PWP) can expect to have no matter what supplements or herbs or essential oils or ozone or unleaded petrol or whatever other magic bean they take) have had serious cases of COVID19 with ongoing life altering symptoms (and death).
You are wrong and your advice is dangerous.
bepo in reply to
There is one group of doctors, who in their own practice, cured 100 out of 100 patients with Covid, in just a couple of days, with nebulized hydrogen peroxide. The Facebook police removed him; the FDA shut him down for claiming to cure Covid. Because it is an alternative treatment, and can't be patented, pharma will try to discredit anyone who has the potential to influence others that have interfered with their bottom line. It's all about the end game of mandatory vaccines for everyone in the world. When there is nothing out there, other than ozone and hydrogen peroxide treatments that is actually curing Covid without side effects, I would think anyone who is concerned about getting this virus would have hydrogen peroxide at home to combat this. Alternative medicine is based on annectdotal successes. All other kinds of trials are too expensive, and for the most part can only be done by pharma. That doesn't mean these cures don't work.
in reply to bepo
The Facebook police? Did you have to bail them out of Facebook jail?
bepo in reply to
So...... you know those PWP can't build their immune. You know that ozone doesn't work and is dangerous? You know hydrogen peroxide doesn't work and is dangerous? Prove it.
I don't know anything. I believe neither ozone nor hydrogen peroxide will cure Covid.
I don't know that a PWP > 70 cannot build up your immune system through supplements enough to prevent Covid. I just believe they can't.
Well, unfortunately, you will be out of luck, should you get Covid. Those two therapies, as far as I have discovered, are the only two therapies that work for all viruses and bacteria, including Corona viruses.
Maybe not fast enough but PWP > 70 still have an immune system. Ozone or peroxide might buy some time for antibodies to take over eventually. But I've read doctors who say ozone/peroxide is a cure for viruses; Dr Rowen in California or Dr Shallenberger in New Mexico comes to mind. Covid is an encapsulated virus which makes it lethal. Ozone touching the capsule pops it, like popping a soap bubble, making the virus susceptible to attack by antibodies.
It's not possible for a PWP > 60 to boost their immune system enough to prevent Covid.
How do you know you can't build your immune? Sounds like doomsday scenario to me. George has a great immune. How often do you get the flu in past years? Did you get flu shots?
Marc, I share your concerns. I read about autopsies in NY on COVID fatalities that found blood clots in brains, lungs, kidneys, and other organs. There is evidence that COVID may be a vascular disease. I also read that in some hospitals COVID patients are being treated routinely with blood thinners. Sorry I don’t have any references at this time. Maybe some of you will research it further. There’s also pretty good statistical evidence that a fatal COVID outcome is 100 times more likely for a person over 70 than for someone under 40. My point is, this is not something any of us want to get. A physician friend of mine estimates that if we do get COVID our chances of serious illness or death is 20%. Maybe some of you are ok with those odds. I’m not. We must avoid contracting this disease, like our lives depend on it.
I'm 74 y.o. "100 times more likely" to me means a 20% fatality rate for PWP is too low. My guess is if you are a PWP over 70, it's more like 99.9% and that guides me as to how we deal with Covid.
Or possibly increased symptoms???
Are you recently here on HU? if you think that a post violates the rules you simply have to report it to the moderator and I quote:
“How to contact us or raise a concern:
If you have any concerns about posts or content, please do report it (via the pull down menu). We will get back to you as soon as possible. Please do not respond to the post or attempt to diffuse the situation, we find that this can inflame the situation. “
parkinsonsmovement.com/foru...
I have known and appreciated Marc for a long time. I know that he is a correct and responsible person and therefore knows how to correct himself. I hope you are too.
with respect and friendship.
TED talk 2 weeks ago
"How the pandemic will shape the near future | Bill Gates"
This is the last place I want to see politics please.
OK- I've deleted all my political references
Gioc , I just joined this site because I had DBS completed 3 months ago. I was looking into that. After a little time i am going to share my experience with that. A medical forum is that talks politics in today's time, will rapidly turn into a heated exchange just like twitter and FB. Political arguments will just attract trolls and hijack the whole site.
i am writing it up now. You motivated me It was wonderful overall.... I had it done at the University of Florida. I will tried and finish today....but work gets in my way from time to time.
I posted my experience with DBS here healthunlocked.com/parkinso...
The virus is quite troubling. It's killed 140,000 US citizens and at over 65000 new infections a day, and climbing, its going to kill a few more. If this was Al q'aida we were talking about there would be a bit of a fuss
I agree. It is troubling. The best thing one can do, is build up the immune, and if you're vulnerable with heart disease, diabetes, lung problems, etc., Isolate yourself. Sweden had the right approach, other than they didn't protect their elderly and care homes, where most of the deaths occured. How and why did it happen that some death certificates were changed to indicate covid deaths, when someone died in a car accident, etc? Who benefits from having a larger number of deaths reported?
As of July 5th 2020, more than 1 Million Americans have been confirmed as recovered according to data compiled from each of the 56 US State & Territory Health Departments (USSTHD).
Quoted from Children's Health Defense,"The lethality of COVID-19 has been massively overstated, especially when compared to the seasonal influenzas we face every year.[2][3][4][5] Recent data from the CDC suggests that COVID-19’s lethality is about 15 times lower than originally assumed and stands at 0.26% in the US, one of the worst hit countries. For those aged under 50, the rate is even lower, at 0.05%.[6] The median or average age of the deceased in most countries (including Italy) is over 80 years and only about 1% of the deceased had no serious preconditions.[7][8][9]
Additionally, there is no scientific evidence that strict ‘social distancing’ measures are the reason why COVID-19 fatalities are lower than the regular flu.[15] Countries without contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea or Sweden (which kept restaurants, bars and grade schools open), have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries.[16][17] The WHO even declared Sweden’s response a model for the rest of the world.[18]
Science is emerging to show that COVID-19 is less infectious than previously thought. Epidemiologist Dr. Gerald Evans, the medical director of infection control at Kingston Health Sciences Centre, recently stated, “To get infected with this virus, you have to be in close contact with another person (and) that contact has to be for a significant amount of time. It’s not 10 or 15 minutes, it’s hours. It needs to be in a closed environment, a house, and in the environment, there has to be a significant amount of contamination. I’m describing exactly what you would see in a household.”[19]
So 140000 dead in 4 months. Projecting 250000 by the end of the year.
How many die from seasonal flu. America has only suffered more deaths in 2 wars. (Ww2 and the civil war.)
In just 4 months, so far, covid19 has killed more Americans than ww1, Vietnam and Korea.
And hardly got started yet.
Stay safe
in reply to WinnieThePoo
You might as well discuss this with your foot.
WinnieThePoo in reply to
I know. Fortunately we can lock them in
Many experts have stated these projections , (part of the scare tactics, ) are way out of line; vastly overstated. Only time will tell.
NY Times : "Since the coronavirus shutdown began, nearly 17 million Americans have lost their jobs. That’s one-tenth of the nation’s workforce. It’s a public-health disaster. If the shutdown drags on, as many public-health experts recommend it should, it is almost certain to kill more Americans than the virus. "
In 2018, an estimated 9.5 million people died of cancer worldwide. That’s about 26,000 people each day and 1 out of every 6 deaths. About 600,000 cancer deaths happen in the U.S. each year .
(250,000 Covid figures predicted by your post.)
cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm
About 647,000 Americans die from heart disease each year.(250,000 predicted for coronavirus)
2017-2018 flu deaths 61,000 deaths were linked to the virus.
In 2018, 485,803 died in February and March. But 6,120 of those were classified as having died from influenza or pneumonia.
cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm
I don't wish anyone to get Covid. There are ways that will attenuate the virus and halt the destruction. If I really felt wearing masks would prevent anyone from getting the virus, I would wear a mask when in the presence of others.
You might be interested in the following discussion.
childrenshealthdefense.org/...
71000 new cases yesterday. 1200 deaths, 1000 deaths a day for 110 days. Take your shoes and socks off to count if the maths is too much just for your fingers
I do a lot of things without knowing for sure whether not they work. In the instance of potentially killing somebody else, isn't it worth taking a "just in case I'm wrong" position?
How many people die from other causes has exactly 0 relevance to how many people die of Covid 19, because most of the Covid 19 deaths could have been and are preventable -- by simple, convenient actions taken over a very short timeframe.
This is surely the issue here. It's a global pandemic killing hundreds of thousands of people. And, ultimately, it needs a coordinated global response to eventually restore normality. The world will not fully reopen as it was before February until ALL countries have a similar level of control. Almost certainly requiring effective vaccination.
Many of those deaths could be avoided. Vietnam for example has chosen to allow very few of its citizens to die from the disease.
The UK, France and other European countries were slow off the mark, and too many of their citizens died as a result, but have now got reasonable control, with a relative handful of new cases each day. As a result they are able to safely reopen their economies to a significant degree (it still aint like it was) and to allow travel among themselves (an important part of opening many economies)
Other nations, like Brazil and the USA have placed less importance on preventing avoidable deaths - and prevent full global reopening, because low transmission nations want to stay that way.
It's all about the shape of the curve - it needs to flatten, and stay flat before controls are (gradually) eased.
That is the point. The virus will never be under control until is under control in all locations around the world.
As with all other viruses, it will not be under control until there is herd immunity.
What news media do you trust these days? George Soros And Bill Gates Funding Facebook’s Fact Checkers, George Soros is the owner of the New York Times.
This is so, so obvious. Why is it hard for some people to grasp?
How, exactly are Covid deaths preventable? Are you sure?
Many totally independent epidemiologists and academicians are now saying the actual numbers are 10 times higher than the official recording.
That's not what I have read. The numbers have been over inflated.
It's to put this flu in perspective.
1 of the areas where you go astray bepo is viewing institutions like big Pharma, and various professions, such as doctors, healthcare 'experts' (epidemiologists, infectious disease scientists) as monolithic. Doctors, i.e., all healthcare providers are no more monolithic than are the people who run coffee shops.
What???
I like the article. I didn't know that Pfizer is run by a veterinarian. He practiced then went back to school for a PhD in technomedicine. The drug companies aren't inherently evil. Just as tobacco or firearm companies aren't. They produce a product that the individual client has the option to use or misuse.
I've harped often on the benefits of vaccination. Those fearful might feel better if they called it inoculation for people while calling it vaccination for animals. I kinda wonder if I have corona antibodies. There is a coronavirus that affects dogs and cats. Since my arms are covered in scars inflicted by angry pets I wonder if I'm protected from covid-19. 200 years ago it was known that the mild cowpox infection prevented lethal smallpox infection.
If the energy and time spent on this post were used for PD itself, a cure would have been found by now. It looks that we are living in an imaginary world not a real one debating about things that we have no clue or proof about them. Now think someone in pain and desperation from PD enter this site and see this post at first. He will run away. I am sure many of people in HU arenot happy about similar posts but they tolerate ...
You are right and I will not to do it again
No need to apologize, MBAnderson! Our "favorite", "beloved" Dear President never apologizes and makes everything political. Dear President always stoops down to the lowest common denominator and I bet my Parkinson's *** that if he were in this forum, he would behave no different.
I am sorry if this thread became political, but isn't that what our Dear Leader is doing on daily or even hourly basis? He mocks disabled people like you and me and flails his arms around like a lunatic, apparently making fun of Parkinson's like tremor. He is making a political issue of Covid-19 every single day and we are supposed to keep quiet and be on the up and up? Says who?
Dissenters who are castigating you and others for correctly pointing out the ridiculous in the current scheme for things are probably closet Dear Leader supporters.
Please ignore the comments and continue to present your viewpoints. That is the American way.
in reply to MBAnderson
You've been quite consistent with your wish that the forum be effectively unmoderated and that people don't have to read stuff if they don't like it. When it's been expressed to you previously that anti-fact BS has no place on a health forum and is especially dangerous in a health forum dedicated to a neurological disease (that has a high rate of eventual cognitive impairment) you've explained that you feel comfortable filtering out the BS, and by implication everyone else here should be able to do it too.
So what has changed? Are vague political references *really* more offensive than bizarre conspiracy theory crap, the posting of which you have previously (and fairly recently) defended?
pdpatient in reply to
Well said, Chris.
MBAnderson in reply to
Which conspiracy theory have I defended?
I do not concede that I implied everybody should be able to filter out BS. I do believe that there are enough people in the forum that unfounded and potentially dangerous claims would be quickly voted off the island.
I remain of the belief that some political references regarding Covid are legitimate because the unmitigated disaster of Covid is due to human negligence, and even more important, the information coming from the US government is as bogus and unreliable as are the dangerous, false assertions re phony remedies.
Likewise, I believe HU and we should allow (by not complaining) the description of conspiracy theories and we should allow those who choose to debunk them because the source of information re therapies informs us to make decisions about those therapies.
I retreated because you and others complained that I had gone too far afield for a PD forum. Lucky you, as much of your discussion the past few days has been every bit as far afield is mine was, but you haven't drawn any complaints.
I retreated only because I was and am hoping to keep peace in the family.
There are ways to allow discussions that are not directly relevant to improving symptoms, such as isolating threads and labeling them so that those who are not interested in such discussions can just bypass them. So, I remain against censorship because it's a slippery slope and I think recent discussions on this thread are perfect example that anytime anyone says something that's absolutely stupid, a consensus quickly forms to discredit such comments.
I've carefully read your every comment and I respect your thoughtfulness and consider them all very enlightened, but I choose not to complain about them having drifted far afield.
Again, I have not ever defended a conspiracy theory. I may be inarticulate, but I'd like you to cite the language I use that defended a conspiracy theory.
marc
in reply to MBAnderson
I said that you defended the *posting of* conspiracy theories. In other words, you think that the forum is an appropriate place for conspiracy theories because we don't need to read them if we don't want to. Bepo's "apology" thread has several remarks by you that i could cite in defence of my claim but probably none better than this one:
"Except, this place can get pretty drab and conspiracy theories kind of perked the place up a little don't you think?"
You keep referring to any suggestions around fairly standard moderation as "censorship", which is just bizarre. Literally every forum on the internet has a general requirment that posts be broadly on-topic. Notably, most of the conspiracy theory stuff here happens in threads that have nothing to do with PD. Is is really that wierd to you that the forum might be dedicated to PD?
MBAnderson in reply to
Yes, that's my position and I discontinued going on about it, except now you brought it up again. If you're so adamantly against irrelevant conversations, why don't we leave this one alone? I was happy to let it go before and I'm happy let it go again, but if you want to keep debating it, fine.
I think anything that directly or indirectly affects the health of PWP is relevant and positions on the wisdom of taking a Covid vaccination are very relevant.
It's not like the place is overrun with conspiracy theories. Far I know, bepo is the only one who post them and anyone who reads this forum for even a few days knows that, so its hardly a huge problem.
I don't appreciate your characterization of my position that bepo ought to be able to express herself without being deleted as bizarre.
Once again you characterize my position as being more extreme than it is make your own position sound more reasonable. Your position is perfectly reasonable without doing that. I think moderation is fine and ought to be directed at ad hominem attacks and some of your language and posture comes close to that.
in reply to MBAnderson
So my question was: why do you consider politics off limits but conspiracy theories (many of which have heavy political implications) as acceptable content?
MBAnderson in reply to
In general, I don't think politics should be off-limits. When/if politics devolves into name-calling and is otherwise not constructive it ought to be off-limits, but saying things like, 'if we compare data on a per capita basis of the US to other countries, the United States government led by Donald Trump is a complete abject failure' -- should be perfectly fine because (it's true and) it is not name-calling.
"-- should be perfectly fine because (it's true and) it is not name-calling.
"
LOL
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