Could anyone give me some advice for my husband? 3 weeks ago he had a nasty fall playing walking football he is 73 years old and very fit. He broke his shoulder, bruised his ribs and his arm turned black and blue. Since then he has been to orthopedics to check that it is healing properly, which it isn't, it was only 3 weeks ago when he did it. He has not slept since it happened. He can't sleep on his back, side or stomach. He can't function properly because he is so tired. He has been on all types of painkillers, very strong tramadol which made him very sick to co codamol, iboprofen and codeine and nothing works, he is still in agony. Has anyone got advice on any other medication or how to sleep? The doctor said it would be another 9 weeks before it got better. He can't carry on like this. Thank you all for reading this and hopefully your advice.
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Imagine1
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Aww thank you for your advice. The problem is the slight touch on his shoulder he is in so much pain. Acupuncture is using small needles isn't it? where did David have it done? x
I don’t wish to offend you Bananas5, but have you ever experienced the excruciating pain of a fractured femur/ribs/shoukder? Acupuncture is only helpful for mild (rarely moderate) pain in a handful of situations. It’s really not something that is going to combat something that is tantamount to post operative pain, hence why A&E trauma departments, and post operative care patients on wards are not given acupuncture.
That would be best for things like muscular/tendon/arthritic pain at most, not a smashed Scapula & ribs. It’s really not appropriate in this gentleman’s situation.
The “femur” was a reference (being the strongest bone in the body, the force required to break it is so high, that it invariably one of the most painful fractures you can have on the body. I wasn’t saying the original poster’s husband has a broken femur, let alone thinking that it was located elsewhere.
Obviously I feel sorry for your husband having a ‘smashed’ spine and collar bones, but working in the medical industry, I’m almost certain that when he was first given medical help (whether in A&E, or military hospital), acupuncture was nowhere near the first line of treatment, that came later. In any of the hospitals I’ve worked in, I’ve never seen acupuncture close to the immediate trauma, that comes down the line when other options have not worked, I.E it’s not a ‘front line treatment.’
To get to a pain clinic requires a certain degree of healing, then a referral. Personally, I ‘had’ to go privately because “the NHS won’t admit pain clinic patients unless they’ve already begun the process privately.” That quote is from the private pain consultant.
I broke my shoulder and arm a few years back and it is agony. The only way I could sleep was sitting up in bed - with pillows keeping me up and so that my head could rest on a pillow. It was the only way I could sleep for about 3 months. But it was broken sleep at best.
Hi Imagine1, As someone who has had three broken shoulder joints . Your husbands pain and bruising sounds about normal till it starts to mend, not sure there are any drugs stronger than what he has been given. Not much hope am I ? Sleeping wise I slept in a chair when it was really bad. Most none drug treatments are not allowed during the early weeks, it can take longer for some breaks to heal sufficiently that you don't have as much pain. one of mine took longer than another, so there are no hard and fast rules one day at a time ,slowly and steady . It is a quite incapacitating break but you are there for support and help, take care both x
Aww thank you for your advice. I am so sorry that you have had three broken shoulder joints, you must have been in agony each time it happened? I thought there would be no other drugs he could use, they are absolutely useless. I just hope because he is a lot older that the break doesn't take ages to heal. The doctor has already told him it will be about another 9 weeks. It doesn't help when there are additional problems with life in general. x
Have to admit it is difficult Imagine1 when there are other matters going on including other health issues as we get older. Here's a bit of optimism to keep you going I am over 75 and broke my foot on a dodgy pavement, it was fitted with a boot followed by a shoe and did heal in the normal time of six weeks so hope your husbands shoulder heals well it normally takes longer with shoulders especially to get the normal movements back as in putting your arm behind your back. It is usual to have physio once the break is healing. Take care both x
I wish i had gone to the same hospital as you. When I broke my foot I was given nothing and told to walk on it. Now I have cartilage damage, I walk with a limp and I have developed arthritis due to lack of care. This was over 3 years ago and I am still struggling. My husband just wants to get back to normal at the moment he can't even lift his arm up. Thank you. x
Oh dear! Apart from wondering how on Earth you managed it 3 times (if it wasn’t the same shoulder re-breaking a further 2 times), it also makes me wonder (as you say ‘joint’) whether your actual Scapula/shoulder blade wasn’t broken, but the upper Humerus, the Acromion, or the end of the Clavicle instead? The other reason I ask is that while the shoulder joint is still classed as a ‘ball & socket’ joint, it’s nothing like as simple as the hip joint, which only involves the head of the femur connecting into the socket of the pelvis.
In case I am confusing you or other readers, I’ll attach a diagram.
Fingers crossed you don’t have that happen again!
Best regards,
Spaniel
Shoulder joint & bones, including the Scapula (shoulder blade), the Humerus, & Clavicle
Hi there it was both sides two on right and once on left. It was the ball of the humerus. You can tell it was broken on the left still as it looks a different shape. it was what they call a three part break. The first time I tripped and could not stop the fall, so fell on top of my own arm. Second time I tripped and fell full length hitting the shoulder on the floor and third time it was just because of a weak bone anyway I lost my balance . When I broke my foot I was recovering from Knee replacement and lost my balance and my foot twisted and snapped. But Dexa says my bones have normal density. I've also had impingement of the shoulder since the brakes on the right.
Wow….’Bloomin’ heck!!! (I presume I can’t use adult language on here due to the pop-up before I write anything). That’s DREADFUL luck doing both sides.
I saw a medical documentary about 20 years ago where they showed that if a young child (6-10 for example) snap a bone, rather than adults, where one bone end tends to healing on top of the other end (where an adult would feel a lump under the skin where the new bone callus forms), the young kids have wonderful little callus eating properties in their blood, so any breaks a 6/7 year old kid gets, the bone callus gets eaten away (almost like getting sanded) so that it heals as one piece right along the bone as though they had never broken it in the first place). Human health can be interesting (and kids are bloody lucky!!!)
Thank you for your advice. I never thought that it would be put in a different area than the actual injury. I will inform my husband and then he can sort it out hopefully with his doctor. x
Hi, I haven't actually had a broken shoulder but I tore my rotator cuff which took months to heal. Like MST King- I propped myself up with pillows in bed and had to sleep like that for ages. I was given co-codamol etc... which made me feel quite sick and I used to rub on voltarol max strength rub on pain relief...I also used ice packs and the heated ones. That's all I can suggest I'm afraid.
Aww thank you. My husband uses Voltarol max strength already. it does seem to ease it for a few minutes and then the pain comes back. It is just a shame there is no miracle cure for this type of injury. They are really good suggestions thank you very much for that. x
Depending on the type of injury, some things have more effective cures than others. Torn rotator cuffs are as painful as hell & take ages to heal (for example watching TV months later, there’s no resting pain whatsoever, then you reach out to pick up a drink & BANG, you’re instantly left with what feels like a boiling hot needle stabbing you in the shoulder joint. Tissue pain can be worse than bone pain due to the lack of appropriate pain killers. The only advantage of a fracture/break over tissue damage is that the pain is consistent & there all the time, allowing medications to target those constant pain signals.
Different people metabolise opioids differently. Essentially, the body processes the individual drug & converts it into Morphine, which makes MANY people sick!
If you watch any medical shows such involving ambulances or air ambulances, you will see that when administering Morphine to a patient before transferring them to hospital, they always also give the patient an anti-sickness drug as well.
Different people convert different opioid medications differently. Tramadol is synthetic & not natural, it literally has absolutely no effect on me, neither does Dihydrocodeine, but Codeine (the natural opioid) does work for me (mostly by making me constipated, but there is some pain relief with it). Everybody reacts differently to these drugs, so much so that some people are more efficient at converting the drugs into Morphine than others. That’s what explains why Tramadol to me is useless, but to your husband is apparently quite powerful.
What you & your husband need to do is work out which of the opioid drugs he has tried has had an effect with the pain (ignoring any side effects like sickness). You/your husband then need to tell either his consultant/fracture clinic/GP that “X” is the only painkiller that is helping him, but it is making him very nauseous and/or sick, so please can you also prescribe an anti-sickness medication to go alongside it so that he can get the pain relief he “desperately needs without having to suffer with extreme vomiting.”
What he is experiencing is very common, and any prescriber knows this. As long as you/your husband press home that sickness is preventing him consume any drug that is useful for his pain, they will issue the antisickness medication.
What they cannot do is force him to have a different drug (which may be less/non effective) as that is completely counterintuitive, but more importantly, it is causing him to needlessly suffer with agony just to prevent vomiting or the feeling of nausea.
I hope that helps?
Ps-sleeping in a chair might be more comfortable for the shoulder in the short term.
I’ll be interested to see how your husband gets on with the antisickness medication request along with the most appropriate opioid. Do not previous experiences & thoughts of sickness put him off trying a certain opioid again, anti nausea/anti sickness medication can really transform his experience.
Thats a good reply and the NHS constitution says its supposed to be whats best for the patient , not always first line option. I first had Tramadol when I broke my shoulder, Hope it helps the person who needs the info.
That’s exactly right, the patient’s needs come first, and ‘one size fits all’ is something we all know from various different parts of our lives is a concept that simply does not apply or work in a lot of cases. When you mention that you had Tramadol, I don’t know how effective/powerful you found it, but your body could be one where it’s amazing at converting Tramadol into a lot of Morphine & have good pain relief. My body is the opposite & clearly rubbish at converting it into Morphine. I distinctly remember looking at the packet an hour after consuming the recommended 150mg dose thinking ‘these are genuine UK pharma capsules, but why aren’t they doing anything?!??’
Nausea/sickness is a very common opiate/opioid side effect. In case you’re wondering: ‘Opiates’ refer to natural opioids such as heroin (medical chemical name Dioxymorphine), Morphine and Codeine. Whereas ‘Opioids’ refer to all natural, semisynthetic, and synthetic opioids, eg Dihydrocodeine, Tramadol & more.
Luckily, you don’t need to know that level of detail, it just needs a discussion with whoever is the current prescriber for your husband so that he and you can tell the Dr whether anything he has tried has eased his pain, and how nauseous/violently sick it has made him.
What should happen is that the prescribing doctor should issue anti-sickness tablets, injections, or even a sub-lingual (under the tongue) spray. Then once any feelings of illness go & your husband can just concentrate on what is making a difference & what isn’t, between the Dr & your husband, there should be a plan of what to prescribe & in what quantities.
Vomiting & nausea is so common with ‘Opoids’ (as that’s the catch-all term) that it really should not be a problem for a doctor to sort out.
Then, fingers crossed for your husband that he becomes a lot more comfortable, and in turn you’ll find that your own worry/stress levels will go down as it’s bad enough when you’re sick yourself, but watching someone else in a bad way, wishing you could make them feel better but can’t is both a guilty feeling as well as upsetting, as it makes you feel helpless.
If your have any problems getting through to his GP, use 111. I know 73 is not incredibly old by a long shot, but a pensioner suffering some pretty serious fractures is not to be taken lightly. Having him in agony with no sleep 3 weeks later because he’s either sick or the medications don’t work is not helping him heal at all, so it’s definitely something you can get 111 on the case with if your GP surgery isn’t willing or able to act right now. 111 can contact a GP surgery directly if they need to.
Hope he gets better soon!! Please don’t feel obliged to, but if you want to let us know any progress, I’m certainly up for hearing it (if you want to share it)
I have phoned 111 up so many times and I just can't get through or online. We went back to casualty and waited for hours to be told there is nothing more that they can do for him and to wait for his appointment at the fracture clinic. Very helpful, NOT!
Aww thank you for your reply. The doctor never told us about any anti sickness drug to take first. If they had give my husband this then his pain would probably have been a bit more bearable. When he went to the fracture clinic recently, the doctor who saw him told him NOT to take Tramadol because it is too powerful, and told him just to take paracetamol which are useless. He is due to go again in 4 weeks time so we will ask him if there are any different opiods that he can take without making him so ill. Hopefully with the anti sickness drug. x
“Sorry but good enough doesn’t work with thee military.” Are you purposefully talking in riddles? Why, what are you hoping to achieve?
Not only that, you’re inferring that I don’t work for the medical industry.
OK, well against my better judgement, I will unveil myself, just for the reason of making you be quiet.
Ring the Royal United Hospital in Bath, and ask to be put through to David Mawdesley. I would attach a picture of my lanyard on here as well, but (if you had any knowledge of the inner workings of the medical world) you would know that you are expressly forbidden from doing that as it could be used to create a fake pass, and clearly, a security risk.
So now that we’re finished with you being childish, we’ll move on. If you don’t stop being childish, then I will report you to the moderator. It’s up to you.
The best policy now would be for you to be quiet. It’s in your best interest to heed that advice.
Why are you on my feed? I think you have got me mixed up with someone else? your post doesn't make any sense to me. You have give me wonderful advice and I have replied back to you and then you insult and report me for what? exactly. Please let me know?
Sorry Imagine1, there’s been a terrible mistake in the replying. A user by the name of Bananas5 (who was advocating acupuncture for your husband, rather than any painkillers) was basically attacking anything I said, then mocked me, then accused me of not working in hospitals.
My replies warning them about their behaviour, and then subsequently reporting them means that the offending posts have been deleted, so instead of my messages appearing to reply to them, that link has been broken, so unfortunately it looks like they’re directed at you. I can assure you that you’ve done nothing whatsoever to upset me, and I’ve enjoyed reading your story & offering some advice that’s hopefully been helpful.
I wish I had also included “Bananas5” in my text replies to them as at least when the ‘replying to’ link was broken, people would still know who I was talking to.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, hope everything is now well?
PS- a doctor advising someone to stop taking Tramadol because it’s “too strong” seems to be under the impression that everyone’s liver’s convert Tramadol into the same amount of Morphine, which isn’t true at all.
They should only make that remark if your husband was taking Oramorph liquid, or Morphine pills (if they exist). As I’ve said before, synthetic opioids are personally rubbish for me, my liver must convert them to either tiny amounts of Morphine, or just destroy the chemical altogether, whereas other people can be absolutely wasted on synthetic opioids. Doctors should only compare apples with apples.
Aww thank you for those kind words. I didn't think that I had upset anyone, it isn't in my nature to do this. I wouldn't like it done to me so I certainly wouldn't do it to anyone else. It was just that I had a warning from the administrator if I did it again I would be off the forum. I thought it would be to Banana5 because this person has been a bit nasty to me with their comments. x
Again, why are you saying this to me? I am certainly not childish and I have definitely not followed you. I think someone has got into my posts and that is very creepy. I have had a horrible message due to you reporting me, for nothing.
Again, sorry. Whilst the messages expressing my annoyance at Banamas5 no longer have the “replying to Bananas5” markers on them, they also (luckily) don’t say my messages were in reply to you.
The moderators have deleted most of Bananas5’s passive aggressive/completely untrue messages, which I can understand make me messages seem to be directed either aimlessly (with the removal of “replying to Bananas5”, or worst case, you thought I was talking to you.
Please be under no illusion, you’re very friendly, I’ve enjoyed our conversation, and I wish the best for you & for your family.
He has the right to have access to pain medication, and to be listened to. You wouldn’t be on this forum asking for help/advice if your husband had his pain/sleeping & comfort all under control. You’re right to be concerned, and you have the right not to be ‘fobbed off’ by someone saying his synthetic medication is too strong, they have no way of knowing how efficiently your husband’s liver converts Tramadol into Morphine. They are also duty-bound to ensure that he is not vomiting up the only pain relief that he is getting. Don’t either of you accept no for an answer!
Your husband is 73, and usually a fit man. He’s not a budding heroin addict trying to get high, he’s simply wanting to be out of constant pain that is making his days (and nights) pretty unbearable.
Thank you. He is like the walking dead at the moment, he just can't sleep at all and this is making his pain worse because he is thinking about it all the time. I feel so sorry for him but there is nothing I can do to alleviate his pain. I can help him dress and undress and wash him but I can't take away his pain. Do you know if pain relief patches work? these are the only things he hasn't tried. x
As an ex ED nurse I would avoid ibuprofen as studies have shown that it can contribute to non-union of fractures (bones not knitting together).
Oramorph (liquid morphine) suits alot of people better than codiene. As long as he can keep his bowels moving because it can constipate you a little, just like codiene. And it might make him a little nauseous but it might not. My experience is oramorph with regular paracetamol, 1g 4 times a day is the best pain relief. We used to give our liver transplant patients regular paracetamol and they said it was brilliant pain relief and that's a big op. Lots of people underestimate the effect of regular paracetamol but as long as you stick to the stated dose and stay within the limits it's perfectly safe.
Aww thank you happytulip, my husband has been taking ibuprofen all the time with no effect whatsoever. I will let him know what you have said. That is very good advice especially from an ex nurse. x
If you feel that you have exhausted all your options for appropriate pain relief, please by all means send me a private message as I know of a different (and completely 100% legal) route you can take. Best regards x
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