Lunch chat about vaccines

[oldtimer2]

I've just been out to lunch with a u3a group, all getting on in years and many with various medical complaints. Some at my end of the table were saying that they are not having any more Covid jabs as 'they had had enough' now and had declined the appointments that they had been offered. I tried to explain, briefly, why I didn't agree but wish that I had read this article before I went - and there is a plain English summary which helps to explain it to others! It's in the vasculitis newsletter: vasculitis.org.uk/news/autu...

"COVID-19 can be a serious infection that can lead to treatment in hospital or even death. We know from previous research that people who have a weakened immune system were more likely to catch COVID-19. They were also more likely to need to go into hospital for treatment or die from COVID-19. Antibodies protect people by fighting the infection and preventing serious illness. Vaccines trigger the immune system to make antibodies. If your immune system is weak, you may not respond well to the vaccine and produce enough antibodies. The MELODY study aimed to find out how well vaccines protect people who have a weakened immune system from COVID-19. We invited people who have had transplants, people with certain types of blood cancer and people with rare autoimmune rheumatic disease to take part.

We found that about 4 in 5 people that took part in MELODY had had antibodies after having 3 or more vaccines. People who had more doses of vaccine were more likely to have antibodies.

We now know that most immunosuppressed people make antibodies after having a COVID-19 vaccine. We also know that the more vaccines you have, the more likely you are to have antibodies. Therefore, we recommend that people have vaccines and booster doses as offered by the UK vaccination programme."

Yes, it's your decision whether or not to have the vaccine, but please do it after being fully informed!

[Amnesiac3637]

Good article. Thanks for posting it. I for one, am of the opinion that if brilliant scientists have taken the trouble and time and billions of squids have been spent on keeping people from being (in some cases) very ill, then I will have all the vaccinations offered.

Vaccinations not only have saved millions of lives over the years, we have, through vaccination of populations, eradicated the real killers and allowed people to mix -and years ago, prior to their invention, that didn’t happen safely.

Some people who refuse to have further vaccinations think that they are ‘built up’ in the body so that no more are needed. Couldn’t be further from the truth, particularly when immune suppressed and needing a top-up every few months. It is, of course, the right of everyone not to have any further treatments or vaccinations but, as you say, be fully informed before getting fed up with being jabbed!

[AgedCrone in reply to Amnesiac3637]

I am very pro vaccination…but not this one as frequently as some are having it,Thanks to this particular vaccine I lost taste & smell, as well as having some really nasty side effects. I’m not a foody- I don’t live to eat…but cooking for others is difficult…how many herbs used I to put in that ? Is my constant concern.

The real truth about covid & the vaccinations that abound for it, will probably never be really known in any of our lifetimes….I’ve had 4 & that’s it for me.

[3LittleBirds2 in reply to AgedCrone]

I fully agree with you. I've not regained my smell properly after having Covid for the first time 6 months ago, I can't smell strong smells like Bleach, it still comes and goes as well. I've had 4 vaccines mainly down to Rituximab timings my most recent one 2 weeks ago, not keen on anymore.

[AgedCrone in reply to 3LittleBirds2]

Yes I novw stand on my dignity with my GP who apparently knows NOTHING about Rtx timings re vaccinations….even worse it was the “well trained” receptionist I was trying to explain to why I had to wait another month….At first, I felt sorry for her, but then when her only excuse for having a go at me, was to say “ well, I’ve already made the appointment” . I thought the hell with it and said I’m just not having it..I expect that will be another apt I could be accused of “ just not turning up” for.

I know receptionists in any business have to put up with a lot….but being treated like an idiot about something I really know about is not acceptable in my book.

But I do so miss the smell of my favourite perfume,

[Fruitandnutcase]

I don’t know for sure but I imagine that most people who make the decision not to have any more covid vaccinations are fully informed.

I have also had four vaccinations and since having the Pfizer bivalent one this time last year I have had endless bouts of diverticulitis and UTIs that I never had before and my VO2 which was always ‘above average’ has gradually gone down to ‘below average’ - when I looked at the graph I have for it I could see that my levels started to go down in mid October last year which was when I had my fourth vaccination. I had no problems with the first three regular vaccinations

[Sheila_G]

I will have all the vaccines offered to me. I don't like having them because I have side effects and feel unwell for 3 or 4 days but for me that is infinitely preferable to being seriously afffected by covid and it's possible long term if not life long effects. I agree that everyone has a choice and this would be mine.

[HappykindaGal]

I stopped at three. I don’t like taking any medication and before RA wouldn’t even take paracetamol. Now with biologics and mtx I decided not to take anything else. I don’t have a flu jab either. I may of course live to regret this choice, but then it’s on me.

[Mall in reply to HappykindaGal]

A concern I have is that if lots of people decide not to be vaccinated, especially those who are more vulnerable due to other serious illness or age then there is the strong possibility that the NHS could again become overwhelmed with covid patients needing intensive care and long term follow up. People will continue to catch the virus, it is still a seriously nasty disease that hasn’t become milder, we are not becoming as sick now due to our immunity which is boosted by vaccines.

Hence more people choosing less immunity will have an impact on us all by further overwhelming the nhs and delaying even further all those needing treatment and surgery on waiting lists.

[HappykindaGal in reply to Mall]

Whereas that is true, I believe everyone should have the free will to make their own choices. I’m no idiot at all and I do understand. I’ve also had covid twice now and yes, second time laid me low for a few days, but wasn’t insurmountable. I’m unconvinced that dosing ourselves repeatedly is doing ourselves any favours.

[oldtimer2 in reply to HappykindaGal]

'Dosing ourselves repeatedly' is the same as having the infection mildly several times. As pointed out in the study referenced, having the vaccine, like having the infection, stimulates your body to produce antibodies which are then at a slightly higher level to attack the virus next time you come across it. So your body is prepared with a reservoir of antibodies. If you happened, then, to be infected with a large dollop of virus, you will be protected. If the virus has mutated, as it keeps doing, it is more likely that you will have sufficient antibodies to kill off at least some of the virus and give you some protection from serious illness.

[HappykindaGal in reply to oldtimer2]

Perhaps. Still not having any more 🙂

[AgedCrone in reply to Mall]

If that was going to happen I think it wouldd be apparent by now….plus the Covid virus variant we were all vaccinated against in 2020 has changed & it changes so frequently , so I doubt if a lot of vaccinations people are having will still have the desired affect.

But as everyone has the choice whether to have any more jabs…no one who wants one need miss out,

But the NHS would save a fortune if they stopped writing to people over 65 who haven’t had a vaccination, well…I presume they’ve checked these people have not had a vaccination? i’ve just had about my fourth email plus a letter in the post from Dr Nikita KANANI MBE GP & Deputy Lead NHS seasonal Vaccination Programme. NHS England .

I had to smile at her letter because she tells me “if you usually get your care at home, …please contact your GP surgery to arrange a home visit. I think my GP would faint if I asked for a home visit!

[Blackberrywine in reply to AgedCrone]

I agree. The amount of letters and text messages I receive (despite informing them of my wishes) is a money and time waster.

[HappykindaGal in reply to Blackberrywine]

Me too!

[JenniferW]

Many people have now suffered some unpleasant side effects from the covid vaccines, which are after all a new technology involving being injected with a piece of genetic code (messenger RNA) which instructs your body cells to create the vaccine rather than the traditional vaccine which is the dead or live but weakened virus.

That is not to underestimate the dangers of covid itself, but the vaccines are very much a trade off of risks and many governments have decided that for healthy people under sixty the vaccine is a risk not worth taking. This being the case, it is not surprising that some older people have decided they also do not wish to take the risk.

[janmary]

there are - infrequently- reactions to COVID vaccs- but I wonder if those who get complications from vaccs are those who would be the worst affected by the virus itself if unvaccinated. We will never know.

As for flu vacs - I never used to have it despite being ‘encouraged’ every year as I was nursing - then I got’real’ flu one year - which made me really ill and started my RA. Ive been first in the queue since then

[AgedCrone in reply to janmary]

I don’t think so..I got Covid after 4 jabs…it was nothing worse than a cold, I am in the immune suppressed,old , on rituximab group ..lsupposedly at very high risk.

I have had the flu vaccination virtually since it started being iffered, and I have had flu once. I think it’s just the luck of the draw most of the time..

[janmary in reply to AgedCrone]

I'm in the same club as you - elderly (on paper , not in my head), fully jabbed, on rituximab, high risk - had COVID and wasn't really ill at all - I meant that perhaps those who have had bad reactions to the vaccines would have been the ones who got very sick with COVID infections if they'd been unvaccinated. Does that make more sense? _ I can't have put it very clearly

[AgedCrone in reply to janmary]

Idon’t think so..I had nasty reactions to vax 1/2..but no reaction to 3/4 & only had a mild dose of Covid.

But on the other hand, one persons mild dose of Covid is another’s in bed for a month isn’t it?

[Honeybee61]

Just had my 7th jab, plus flu jab the same time. I haven't had Covid and live my life as I did before 2020 other than (extra!) meticulous handwashing. Hopefully that will be enough. As has already been said, we all have a choice.

[Blackberrywine]

It's entirely up to the individual what they put into their own body. The jab is not entirely 'safe and effective'. There has been many articles on increase in heart attacks, strokes, musculoskeletal issues, as well as cognitive problems in some people. The individual must make a decision based on his or her own circumstances. No one should ever be coerced into taking something for the greater good. Particularly when the particular drug does not stop transmission, or from the individual catching the virus as we have clearly seen. I chose not to have the vaccine based on my own history with drugs. I also got covid right at the start. I have not had it since.

[Leics]

I am severely immune suppressed and I spoke with my immunologist on this subject a couple of months ago. I’ve had 4 vaccinations and covid once. I asked in my case do I need another Covid vaccination as I’ve had the pneumovax twice and failed it miserably both times therefore I didn’t produce any antibodies, would it be in her opinion the same for the Covid vaccines? as they don’t make me very well at all. Her answer she is ok for me not to have any more as she feels there would be little benefit in my case. So up to me but I won’t have any more and I’ve been very ill with flu jabs over the last 30 years so won’t have one of those either. Informed personal choice every time for me.