Read this, posted in another group:
“BA.2.86 may be more capable of causing infection in people who have previously had COVID-19 or who have received COVID-19 vaccines.”
Approved COVID vaccine that may make us more susceptible to the new COVID variant?
Good grief!
journalistic grammar….you could write it the other way round but not as exciting a headline?
“Having had covid or covid vaccines offers you less protection against this new variant than against previous ones”.
From the CLL forum:
“August 23, 2023 -- United States CDC/ Center for Disease Control & Prevention post re new COVID-19 variant:
"Based on what CDC knows now, existing tests used to detect and medications used to treat COVID-19 appear to be effective with this variant.
BA.2.86 may be more capable of causing infection in people who have previously had COVID-19 or who have received COVID-19 vaccines.”
Sorry, but greater susceptibility (vulnerability) after vaccination does not translate to just “less protection” to the variant.
I think the word ‘may’ in the sentence is significant. It’s a catch-all applied to any statement put out that has a doubt implied. Not gonna worry about it until it happens - my philosophy and it stands me in good stead!
MRNA vaccines are a “new breed”. Traditional vaccines never stated you “may….”
Yes, as an adult- the choice is yours - if not mandated.
But I certainly don’t want to subject my children to greater vulnerability of getting a disease with vaccination, rather than without.🤓
We were not masked or extensively shut down with polio-& there was no “may be capable…” with the traditional polio vaccines .
But don’t you think that might be because the CDC says that there has been only one case of polio in the United States since 1979?
I was referring to Polio epidemic in the 1930s-1960’s; & pre-vaccine. At that time-no masks, no mass shutdowns, & no mass mandatory vaccinations of the population.
“this disease that plagued the years between the thirties and sixties. Years in which mothers lived in fear of their children being struck by an infection that was reputed to leave indelible and severe motor impairments, eventually leading to permanent iron lung imprisonment or even death.”/NIH, USA
I lived through that Polio Epidemic …..it wasn’t only “reputed” to leave severe impediments…..I wrote a post earlier, saying the girl I sat next to in junior school actually had polio and was paralysed for life, but nobody else in the school caught it…I .don’t know where that post went!
I would imagine there might still be people alive who survived that epidemic. Polio vaccinations in the UK weren’t available until around 1955/56…then in the early 60’s when I took a job where I travelled a lot,the Oral vaccine on a sugar lump was introduced.,
I was at a "postman's knock" party in 1952 ; one of the girl's boyfriend a few weeks later died of smallpox.
I remember polio outbreaks in the 50s - it didn’t spread like. COVID - but several children in my school had it - one died, and another had a permanently paralysed leg and had to wear a caliper . Immunisation didn’t need to be compulsory-people were desperate to protect their children because everyone knew someone whose child had contracted it.
Masks wouldn't help much with polio as it is spread through poo. A more realistic comparison would be to the 1919 pandemic where they used mass gathering bans, school closures and social distancing. They also increased the ventilation in buildings, quarantine and mask wearing and personal hygiene. There were fines for those that didn't obey.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
And in early polio epidemics they did use quarantining of families and schools.
Facts:
“Polio spreads through coughing or sneezing or from coming in contact with poop (feces) of an infected person (fecal-oral route).”/Cleveland Clinic
“What’s remarkable in light of the near-global coercive lockdown for COVID-19 is how the terrible and terrifying disease of polio was managed almost entirely by a private and voluntary system of health professionals, innovators, parental responsibility, localized caution, and individual volition and caution where needed. It was an imperfect system because the virus was so vicious, cruel, and random. But precisely because there were no national or state lockdowns – and only very limited local closures done mostly in a way consistent with citizen fear – the system remained adaptive to changing conditions.”/AIER
Totally agree! Anything that comes from the States tends to be over alarmist anyway.
Doesn’t say anything about severity either, with or without vaccine.
Yes. They seem to either over estimate or underestimate the situations!🤔 “Follow the money.”
They need to stay with the facts, scientific method & use panels of expert scientists.
I doubt there there been any research on that….we hear of many unvaccinated people never catching Covid, but many of those fully vaccinated caught it…or even died of it ….so there is something else involved somewhere. …probably the state of health of the victim pre infection?
But here in Europe they are telling us the new variant of Covid is less virulent than previous strains…so a lot less people are going to qualify to have the Autumn vaccination.
So wait for the furore when that statement proves inaccurate!
Indeed! Who & what to believe?
Many folks in the USA are tired of the Dr. Fauci gov propaganda: he’s “disappeared”/retired now & is teaching at Georgetown U.😳
He previously botched the AIDS crisis.
Senator Rand Paul is still investigating Fauci’s/NIH & big pharma’s involvement w/gain of function viruses in China….
Personally I just read the propaganda & forget it.
The poor girl I sat next to at junior school,caught Polio & was paralysed for life. Nobody else in the school caught it.
I will have my usual influenza vaccination in the Autumn & that is all.
Most life goes on …..whether we have Vaccinations or not.
Oh dear, so it’s now Rand Paul (R) versus Dr Fauci (D) and the Government; not a scientific, but a partisan, argument. I shall be looking elsewhere for valid experience and information in future.
There is an ongoing US senate health committee investigation of Dr. Fauci’s/NIH funding of gain of function research in Wuhan, China. Dr. Rand Paul is a medical doctor & on that committee.
Am I reading it wrong? I read it as this variant is more likely to cause infection in people who have been vaccinated or have had covid previously than previous variants were. Ie. the antibodies from vaccination or previous infection will be less effective against this variant so the risk is more inline with people who haven’t been vaccinated (not that vaccinated people are at even more risk than unvaccinated)
Yes that's how I read it
Exactly- & that’s the whole point of my post. Disturbing information.
But you were claiming that the vaccine made us more susceptible than unvaccinated people and that’s not what it says! Only the protection we have may not be quite as good for this variant.
Unfortunately as viruses mutate vaccines often become less effective. Viruses like covid tend to mutate much faster than other viruses (such as polio) so this will happen quicker. The vaccines are also being updated to take account of this. On the plus side as viruses mutate they often become less of a threat of causing serious disease.
It’s not particularly disturbing but what was expected.
Sorry, but if you read my post carefully- I’m not claiming anything.
The quote I posted on greater susceptibility is exactly what the CDC has stated!
And here it is again (from the CDC):
“BA.2.86 may be more capable of causing infection in people who have previously had COVID-19 or who have received COVID-19 vaccines.”/CDC
Yes - may be more capable at infecting people who have been vaccinated compared to previous variants NOT compared to unvaccinated people!! Which was what you were claiming (see attached photo of your original post).
Sorry: the CDC statement does not say “may be more capable at infecting people who have been vaccinated compared to previous variants NOT compared to unvaccinated people!!” that’s your stance & interpretation.
My CDC quote was accurate.
Reading comprehension seems to be the issue here.
I agree that the CDC have worded it clumsily but I’m 100% sure that’s what they meant. Biologically it makes no sense the other way. The way vaccines work is to train your bodies to make antibodies by recognising parts of a virus. If a virus mutates it’s possible your antibodies will no longer be so good at recognising the real virus.
Hi there, I read it the same as bpeal1 and the CDC do in fact say the following: "The large number of mutations in this variant raises concerns of greater escape from existing immunity from vaccines and previous infections compared with other recent variants [...]." cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses... (it's at the bottom of the page under "Scientific Understanding of BA.2.86 as of August 23, 2023" and then "Immune Impacts". 🙃
Your reference supports the CDC statement that I quoted.
MRNA vaccines & gain of function viruses are new & “atypical”- and consequently, the vaccinated & previously infected may respond atypically.
It says that the new variant night escape immunity more easily - be it immunity from infection or vaccines. Nothing to do with the kind of vaccine one has had. Or maybe I'm missing your point. As far as I now it's normal for viruses to mutate and escape immunity. Anyway, I am not too worried about this new variant 🙂 Have a nice evening!
Again, the CDC statement:
“BA.2.86 may be more capable of causing infection in people who have previously had COVID-19 or who have received COVID-19 vaccines.”
This is new technology: MRNA vaccines & gain of function viruses.
We are all still learning….
I totally agree with skinny cappuccino.
You worry if read all this and i tend not to read a lot of these things. xxxx
And so say all of us!
Well, “Yikes” is how I feel when reading the possible side effects of the RA Rx meds; but it’s better to be informed.
Why? The majority of us don’t get the side-effects….so why worry about something that is unlikely to affect us?
Don’t you think this has been going on for long enough now?
We are either going to catch Covid ….which ever version is spreading at the moment ….or we’re not.
There is no definitive answer…. and whether we are vaccinated or not, doesn’t seem to make that much difference….. .except do what a vaccine is designed to do…alert the immune system so that it can react as soon as possible dealing with the infection.
I was way up there on the list of CEV…..very old, on Rituximab with RA. I eventually got a version that was no worse than a cold.
So…..we can either sit at home contemplating our navels worrying ….or we get on with enjoying our lives.
I know what I will choose to do.
“To each, his own.” Forum participation is optional & the various posts/opinions are interesting & educational.🤓
This is text from a slightly better written report. A virus “more capable of causing infection” reads rather differently people who are vaccinated or have had covid being more susceptible which sounds much more alarmist.
A new strain of COVID-19 has prompted the CDC to issue a formal message that it could evade vaccines or the protection of natural immunity.
The strain is called BA.2.86 and is of particular concern because of its more than 30 mutations, which means it may behave very differently than previous versions of the virus.
"BA.2.86 may be more capable of causing infection in people who have previously had COVID-19 or who have received COVID-19 vaccines," the CDC risk assessment stated.
The CDC said there is "no evidence" that BA.2.86 is causing more severe illness but said that could change as more information becomes available. Health experts typically gauge severity by the rate of COVID hospitalizations.
In other words nobody has any idea how people will react….whether they are vaccinated , unvaccinated ,old,young,immune compromised or just plain healthy!
Think I’ll do what I always do…wait & see 😳
Sorry, but why dispute & then quote the exact same CDC excerpt, which is the topic of my post?🤔
Again, the CDC statement quoted in my post:
“BA.2.86 may be more capable of causing infection in people who have previously had COVID-19 or who have received COVID-19 vaccines.”/CDC
your title was « greater susceptibility ». You did not clarify that that was your interpretation.
Please note the 3 question marks included in my title: “Greater Susceptibility???
My CDC quote was unadulterated; not reconstituted.
Forum participation is voluntary & opinions are varied.
Science is about facts, not feelings.
I personally thnk thats rubbish. The meds we take tale lower our immunity to normal levels as ours is heightened
Why would a CDC public health statement be ”rubbish”? (& pls note that the CDC statement is not geared towards those w/auto-immune diseases.)
Im in the uk and the Cdc means nothing to me and is only their oppinion. Having the covid vaccine saved a lot of people with and without autoimmune diseases. The same could he said about the flu jab or any vaccination
Science is about facts, not feelings.
Let them publish a paper with priof instead of a quote then. WHO said anything like that so until theres difinite proof of that quote then its rubbish and not confirmed
There certainly seems to be a few odd reactions in peoples' immune systems with some vaccines. My mother had a flu vaccination in the 1950s, had a bad reaction and never got another one. (Luckly, in our family, we didn't get colds, let alone the H1N1 flu.)
The following refers to an effect on the thyroid but also refers to "a broad spectrum of autoimmune diseases".
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/338... - "Summary: Vaccines have been shown to trigger an immune response that leads to a broad spectrum of autoimmune diseases..."
Edit: I don't have RA but my mother does. She developed it later in life.
BBC 1 news Saturday 9:15. Reported on this. 30 folk in an Elderly care home had this new version. All but one recovered without needing hospitalisation. One person who was very frail with other serious ailments was admitted to hospital for a couple of days but also recovered. It caused no deaths amongst any of these vulnerable elderly folk. The new variant has 30 adaptations hence it is thought that it will be easier to catch. It also reported it’s been around for a while. Previous vaccination or of having had actual covid will help with protection against serious illness. It was reassuring to hear this news item.
🤔 30 elderly folk?
“As of Aug 25, 2023:
36,080 deaths,
20,740 heart attacks,
5,034 miscarriages, and
209,218 hospitalizations
reported in VAERS following the COVID shot.”
The news report used this example of an outbreak in a residential care home in Norfolk to illustrate the outcome of the effect of this strain on a group of vulnerable adults who had all been vaccinated. It was very reassuring for me, you are entitled to interpret it as you wish. I will continue to take the shots.
Boosted People More Likely Than Unvaccinated to Be Infected: Study
Result Covid 19 positive.
Feeling upset and angry 
