The Black Death

[medway-lady]

Has anyone else read the report on the BBC that it is now believed that the Black Death that caused the deaths of millions of people yet not all so that those who survived might have had a genetic mutation that meant they didn’t die then but it has mutated again to be Auto Immune disease. In particular Crohns but might mean that way back we all might have a genetic link or at least those like me who are sero positive and I know I have the pANCA gene. An interesting read.

[Neonkittie17]

Not exactly that but I read how it mutated over many hundreds years.

[medway-lady in reply to Neonkittie17]

The way I read it is that a gene mutation protected them as it was present in the bones they analysed then mutated again over how long is unknown and has predisposed people to Crohns and RA. And might have had an impact on the people who had Covid but only mildly. I suppose as time goes on this type of new knowledge might help with better treatments. One can but hope. X

[Neonkittie17 in reply to medway-lady]

Yes that’s why I was interested too. I was reading a very interesting article re Jenner and the problems he had re anti vaxxers of that time and saw links to the plague articles. As you say we can hopefully learn a lot from from these mutations. 🤞🏻 Hope you are steady at the mo? X

[medway-lady in reply to Neonkittie17]

Great picked up new glasses but not sure if they are properly adjusted as the screen is dipping in the middle. But l’ll pop back tomorrow and get them looked at. Should be fine and we will have lunch out afterwards too. A new fine dining restaurant has opened band does a set course menu for £27 and its really lovely at lunchtime. No need to book and you eat overlooking a castle and the boats sailing by. Just hope it’s fine this weekend as the manure has arrived for the garden and we lost a lot of stuff when it was so cold so a good bit of stuff to do. I hope you are well too. X

[Neonkittie17 in reply to medway-lady]

That sounds lovely! I’m still shielding but edging out as my B cells repopulate and have had dental and essential ftf hospital visits but no indoor socialising as yet. I’ll stick to outdoor pursuits for now. There’s a lot to do outside around here. The RA side of things is going well on Abatacept injections and hope you feel yours are too, but the immunosuppression/hypogamma is still the problem. How is your mobility? Are you making decent progress after your accident? I hope things are much improved. My plants and pots are so far doing very well and didn’t get much snow on them. I’m getting ready to sow seeds this weekend indoors in little propagators and order some garden plants shortly to go out end of April. Ever busy isn’t it?! Hope your fertiliser boosts your plants. Enjoy your lunch tomorrow and hope you get your specs adjusted. X

[medway-lady in reply to Neonkittie17]

My leg and ankle healed well and the crutches went back in November but l built up walking normally over weeks as they said to do. Luckily my bones are great and no need for the infusions as density is high. I am grateful the Abatercept hasn’t caused UTI’s so prepared to put up with minor skin issues. After all it was the GP’s moisturiser than caused me to slip over and Clinique body butter works just as well. I also had an injection of Gentamyacin which hopefully has worked although he hit a blood vessel in my thigh muscle so I got a haematomer which hurt like hell and gave me a swelling like a duck egg. Honestly I was in so much pain only ice worked so the injection has to have worked. I was surprised it was even suggested and shocked at the sight of the needle but I had a choice a quick jab or an infusion so l had the jab and it was sheer bad luck that ten days later my leg really begun to hurt. Still all better now and I had a new hair colour (grey with attitude) to get ready for Spring then Winter returned. Lol xxx

[Hidden]

yes, extremely interesting!

[Haz58]

Hubby read a few weeks ago about ancestors of people who survived the Black Death did not get COVID or got it very mildly. He got COVID, tested positive when we tested the day we got home off a cruise.y bro in law who was with us also got it. But me and my sister didn't. Yet we'd obviously both shared small cabins and slept with our hubby's until they tested positive. My ra symptoms started during 2021 in lockdown, I was 62, (Seropositive). When I saw a hip doc this week he said it was unusual to be diagnosed so late in life with RA. Nobody has said that before. Makes me wonder about this Black Death gene thing. Did I get COVID and not know it and that made the RA start... or did the vaccines for COVID kick my immune system in too much... Interesting 🤔

[Kati66]

yes, I read an article on this too as they also said those with the Black Death gene were less likely to get Covid. However the down side is more likely to have autoimmune disorders. Interesting stuff!!

[Otto11]

I would be interested in reading the article if you can point me in the right direction please x

[oldtimer2]

The article is in Nature: nature.com/articles/s41586-...

In the summary it states: Finally, we show that protective variants overlap with alleles that are today associated with increased susceptibility to autoimmune diseases, providing empirical evidence for the role played by past pandemics in shaping present-day susceptibility to disease.

The article showed evidence for concluding that certain genes protected against dying from plague (the Black Death). Unsurprisingly these people were more likely to survive and then have children themselves. These genes overlap with areas on the chromosomes (alleles) which are associated with a greater chance of developing an autoimmune disease.

Some of the press reports showed that the people writing them did not understand the article.....or were not able to explain it well enough. It's interesting but not much help in determining why people develop autoimmune disease. Why doesn't everyone with these groups of genes develop disease, and why that particular disease...etc? There must be other factors, like perhaps triggers from infections, stress, food, gut bacterial microbiome, etc.

[medway-lady in reply to oldtimer2]

But Isn’t it a place to start to find out why some get RA sero positive and others are diagnosed with it yet are sero negative. I’m of the opinion that anything which helps science develop targeted treatments that do work is a good thing and if our genes can help then it can only be a good thing too. Much like the now well documented risk of breast cancer and it’s roots on a small Scottish island.

[oldtimer2]

I didn't mean to suggest that the research was a waste of time! Just that it doesn't take us much further forward than we were already. We already knew that some genetic makeup makes people more likely to develop auto-immune disease, and the overlap with ancient DNA in people who survived the plague is interesting rather than taking us forward.

[medway-lady in reply to oldtimer2]

I only know I have the pANCA gene from the Neurologist looking for a reason for my AKI and wonder if the RA teams did the same if it might help with medications. I find it interesting that all my medications have worked as expected with few side effects yet others take the same drug and not only does it not work but gives awful side effects. But I have some allergies and other AI diseases so clearly I got a bad inherited gene but my sister and brother have no health problems so far. x

[oldtimer2 in reply to medway-lady]

So far the genetic connection between the genetic profile generally and the gene receptors in the joints which respond to the biological medications have not, apparently, been found. So the present research is concentrating on taking biospies from affected joints and testing those. There was a recent Zoom meeting to which NRAS gave us access which talked about the research. I asked about whether there was any connection, as my sister and I with Rheumatoid Disease (which is probably lots of different conditions), who look very similar, have responded differently to biological treatments.).