Honesty is sometimes the best medicine

Hi losers

Why losers? Well its not because I think you're all losers and not worthy but because we are all trying to be losers losing weight together.

Well I recently posted a remark to someone about cravings and why we get them. I'll often start a reply with a jokey remark such as ''booh hoo'' or ''blah blah''. This is not to annoy but as a joke as so many responses are often ''your great'' ''we love you'' which has its place but often its the truth that is needed so that the individual can move on and get to where they want to be.

I run a weight loss group here in my village and it does very well but I don't molly coddle everyone all the time. You just cannot do that as if you don't tell someone that they are wrong then they will never learn how to change it. I have rewards for exercise such as medals, gold silver and bronze for distances walked, ran or while playing golf. The further you walk the better the medal and everyone seems to like this. They have been going out cycling, walking, exercising more than they would have done and the Olympics has been so inspiring and has got people off their bottoms and out the door.

Some people don't have any more chances in this journey. Some have been doing this for years and years and are still in exactly the same place now from when they started except they feel worse about themselves and suffering extreme low self esteem and confidence. This all has to be tackled alongside weight loss as if it isn't then you will go back to type once you come off your 'diet'

I have got under the skin of some ladies so much that they then go, ''sod him...I'll show him' and go out and do something above and beyond to shift a few extra pounds and then afterwards have come back and said thank you. Reality is exactly what I needed......

We can all be lovely and say wonderful things about each other but sometimes reality is what is needed to give you a kick up the backside. It's either a few words on here as a message to change or maybe a heart attack later on as the message. I want you all to be in a place where you are happy with yourselves and happy about how you feel both physically and mentally. I don't advocate a body beautiful or the bikini body. If that is your desire then that is fine but most people just want to feel healthier and happier. Able to fit in those nice jeans or dress and feel wonderful. That is what I wish for all of you but I'd be wrong if I was to just sit back and watch people destroy all their hard work by not allowing facts to get in the way of feelings....

Good luck losers and I hope you all have a great coming week and that you get to your individual goals

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  • Hi I totally agree, sometimes discretely it is much better to be cruel to be kind which is how I wish my husband had been before I suddenly had a change of mindset to go on this journey, indeed I hit rock bottom both physically and mentally, searching for help one morning I found this site and have never looked back thank goodness. ๐Ÿ˜Š

    I have now told my husband to be honest if I look awful, am putting weight back on again say so, after all I have spent 30 years nagging him for his benefit to stop smoking which at last he has help to do so.

    My son is planning his wedding after a trip out walking uphill with his future mother in law and gasping for breath I said how I am going to have to loose weight for the wedding ( she is super slim, same age as me ) her answer was "No you don't you are alright as you are". I thought what's wrong with you woman don't you have eyes? Therefore I concluded if I remainder fat how good would she look on the photos next to me, next day I found this site and in my head it's GAME ON I will look as good as she does, I will get to my goal because if I don't I will hate myself forever more and after all only I can do it.

    Well done for giving honestly to the ladies and gents if any go to your class they will thank you in the end. ๐Ÿ‘

  • Hi loser itsbab

    Thank you for that. What I would say on that though is, lose weight for yourself and not to look the same or better than the 'other' woman :-)

    Just lose weight to be healthier and above all things, happier. If being the same shape and size at someone else then that's fine. Keep up the good work fellow loser and onwards and downwards.............

  • I know your right but I suppose we are all at different places even if we have the same goals We all need encouragement as well as honestly Some of us need a hefty push while others need a gentle nudge ๐Ÿ’•

  • Hi loser Macer

    Totally agree with this but there are so many people that either don't understand or never change. I remember years ago being in a major weight loss group. So many of the ladies, and it was mainly ladies, would turn up,

    ''Oh I've lost a pound this week''

    then a week later

    ''oh I've gained 2 but its ok'' giggle giggle

    I just wanted to stand up and shout...........STOP. THIS ISN'T GOOD.........

    I wanted to tell them to get a grip and really think of what they are doing. Some of those ladies had been coming and going for years and were still the same weight but because these groups are 'income' based there was no real incentive for the groups leader to say anything other than 'there there' and 'you'll be fine'.

    Grrrrr. Now slowly getting off my extremely high horse and going to have a shower before going to work for my night shift...........

    Loser dadtoad

  • Awk hope your ok after your Wee rant ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

  • There's only a certain amount of nudges before a shove is needed I think. Some people are so ill that they don't seem to understand what they are doing to themselves. I know they need the help and support and 99% of the time that is what I give. I have never had complaints from my group members. I put comments onto their online profiles just saying, well done, or think about making better choices, time to re-evaluate things etc.......

  • Hi dadtoad,

    This is potentially quite an emotive subject and I don't think there's a hard and fast answer to it.

    I am, by nature, a motivator and would always plump for the carrot, rather than the stick and lead from the front, rather than push from behind.

    I can understand your frustration at the "serial dieters", but believe that true motivation comes from within. If we're not in the right head space, no amount of cajoling or honest speaking is going to help.

    It's also important to understand that being overweight, isn't just about eating too much. Generally, there are an awful lot of emotional factors involved and piling on the pounds, is just a symptom of the other problems. I've always been very aware of my size and someone telling me that I'm fat and need to get a grip, would have sent me heading to the first bar of chocolate I could lay my teeth on!

    You give out awards for exercise achievements, which is a motivational tool and very similar to the challenges that we run here. This is the same as buoying people's emotions, because somebody that's totally demoralised, isn't going to be able to count calories, or walk around the park. It's about highlighting the good things that are being achieved.

    On the subject of slimming groups, you'll find that a lot of those ladies are going for company and socialisation. They're probably lonely, but instead of admitting that they're friendless and, therefore, in their eyes, losers (not good ones), they join slimming clubs. If they're socially inept, or gauche, all things weightloss are a common factor and something that they can join in with. There's no incentive to lose weight, because then they'd lose their social life and go back to being lonely again. They're happy to pay the money, because joining a slimming club, is socially acceptable. How many clubs for lonely people do you know of? How many people would have the courage to join them? I was very lonely before finding this site, socially and psychologically isolated. Much as I craved company, I would never have joined a lonely people's club, but joining this "slimming club" was OK.

    Since joining here, I've received nothing but kindness and motivating words, even though to start with, I was a complete wimp and probably very annoying. I would never have lost 6st if anyone had told me to buck my ideas up and get real :)

    I think we also have to accept that this is a virtual reality too. We don't really know each other. We can't read each other's body language and it's very easy for words to be misconstrued and for offence to be taken. I've seen it on many occasions. I would never knowingly upset anyone, but have been guilty of it, purely unintentionally. If someone is emotionally very fragile, then we have to be very careful not to tip them over the edge. We can't run down the street after them and get them to come back and chat about things. If they switch off their computer, or close their account, it's all over and we don't know what kind of a state they've been left in, or what their next step may be. That's a scenario I would find very difficult to come to terms with.

    I will advise, empathise, support, encourage, even implore, but I shan't be handing out home truths. People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones :)

  • You are my hero, moreless. Thank you for putting my thoughts into writing. I, for one, do not need to be told to get my act together (I tell myself that every day), I need support and acknowledgement for my hard work - even on the days that I fail.

  • I always offer help and support to anyone that really wants it but you cannot just sit back and watch someone pull themselves apart bit by bit and not tell them. I only use the stick on rare occasions on a one to one basis where I try, in a friendly way, where they are going wrong and try to find out why that is and what their motivation is at that time. I'm not a social worker but I sure feel I should be sometimes.

  • Well said moreless, beautifully put. Some people might benefit from dadtoad and good luck to them. Some of us appreciate his videos and the information he gives is interesting sometimes. But if we choose to loose our weight a different way to him we should have the choice. We can take or leave what he says but I know I'd rather take your way of gentleness and caring as you don't have the 'I know best' attitude he does. Yes, we need to lose weight and slowly as I'm losing it I'm making friends on here that not only listen but give support and congratulations as needed. I love this site and know which one of you I could live without and it's certainly not you moreless.

  • moreless :D Thank you, exactly what I would want to say! ;)

  • Indeed moreless, wise words. We are real people on our own individual, tough, journey. As ever, we are our own worst critic, that's why supportive words and helpful strategies are so important.

    I do understand what dadtoad is saying regarding home truths - however, is it our place to provide this when, as moreless points out, we don't actually know the person?

    My thoughts are: if someone has submitted a post they are asking for help, support and some good practical ideas on how to help them stay on track - that's what I look for anyhow :)

    Just my thoughts :)

  • I had a chat with the group today (Saturday's weight loss meeting) and spoke about what you said on the medal front. I think it is important to have something to aim for but I bow to your wisdom and did say that I will need to sit back and try and organise something that would be more inclusive allowing less mobile members of the group to take part and join in. The medal idea was only a spin off from the Olympics but the inclusive idea is totally the right way to go......

    I suppose being an ex soldier, our way of talking is abrupt, straight to the point and with little nonsense but, and mine was a massive butt, I only use the stick approach on things once all other avenues have been exhausted. I am glad I posted this question as I feel more aware of how people might or might not take things.

  • We're all different dadtoad and there's never a "one size fits all" category. As long as we remain open-minded, our efforts will never be in vain :)

    I wish you every success with your weight loss groups and am very impressed with your unstinting determination to improve people's lives, by helping them to improve their health.

    Keep up the great work, but maybe leave the stick at home, after all, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink ;)

  • Yes ma'am. Wilco

  • :D

  • Well said moreless whole heartedly agree with all you've said xx

  • Well put, moreless. I know I would not respond to that type of "motivation". I know my own failings only too well and have found the non judgemental encouragement I have found on this forum ideal. It has meant I have been more successful with that kind of support than I have for 20 years. There are enough people in this world only too ready to be cruel and to undermine our weight loss journey .

  • I think in the case of the giggling women at your group who dont take it seriously, then maybe yes give them a bit more of a shove. But that approach does not work with everyone, possibly most people, and could actually derail someones motivation, especially sensitive people, people who have been critised or bullied in the past.

    I did not feel critisised by your comments on the other thread, i wasnt actually sure of your tone and what you meant so i just gave you the benefit of the doubt that you werent being mean. I try to do that on the internet as most of the time people arent trying to offend.

    Just be aware people can be very sensitive about their weight, and the chances are if they have taken the step to join this forum, they already have made a commitment to start getting healthier, and probably need the carrot not the stick.

  • Well said. xx

  • I only use the stick on rare occasions. I just wanted to see if it was a good or bad thing. Not normally used at all but, like today when someone has continually argued with me for 6 weeks about how she is right and seeing her continuing weight gain over that time I have to eventually ask myself, should I now say something or just let her carry on with the excuses and the weight gain. I want to shout and say, look, this is your last chance, your putting yourself into an early grave if you don't make the right change but I could see she was feeling low, so gave the plaster over the wound talk and off she went hopefully going to think about finally listening and changing her habits. There is only so much you can do to try and help someone. I only charge ยฃ1.50 per meeting, 50p goes to the venue and anything left over after I take out ยฃ5 for costs, goes to charity so I am not doing this for money. All accounts are shown to the group online and can be checked anytime.

  • I do like Steven Miller's straight talking style, but it seems that it can only work in face-to-face meetings, not on some internet forum where people don't know each other, and only if one has got Steven Miller -type positive (my opinion) personality.

  • Steven Miller?

  • Well I apologize mentioning Steve Miller, while you posted about other things dadtoad. It's just he's the first thing that came to my mind when you wrote about no molly coddling but straight talking for weight loss motivation. I think he is good at that.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_F...

  • Sorry. I really don't know who that is.

  • No prob dadtoad. Here is the Fat Families episodes link if you would like to see the show on Youtube. I really enjoyed them, they are just hilarious!

  • I agree with moreless, motivation has to come from within, and the fact that people are on this site demobstrAtes their desire to change their eating ๐Ÿ˜Š It's a fab forum full of positivity, especially when you come on after a difficult week and have STS or gained, THATS when supports and positivity really come to play, because it is sooo hard to admit ๐Ÿ˜•

    However, I have a couple of friends who I would very much like to help to lose weight, they are full of admiration and praise for me then say oh but I can't lose weight because . . . I'm at a loss, scared to hurt them but find it so sad that they are ill and in pain because of their weight, ๐Ÿ˜ข So I do understand how Dadtoad feels, and that he wants to help people, but also aware how hurt I would have felt had it been said to me. ๐Ÿ˜•

  • I find peoples lack of motivation to be a constant thing. I have said to them to watch the Olympics, listen to motivational speeches etc to try and get the motivation they need to proceed and move forward with their lives. It's hard to get motivated when you feel bad about yourself but I do know how motivated I was watching the London Olympics and how inspired I was to then motivate myself into action. I will only say, 'use the stick', once other options have gone as if nothing else is working.

  • I know you're just having a bit of a rant, but I get more sense of your own frustration rather than your frustration on behalf of the people in your group. It is clear you want to do the best for them, but, unfortunately, you can only give people the tools and let them use them.

    Some people are fine with honesty and blunt comments. I'm one of them. I miss my mum, who had absolutely no hesitation in telling me when I'd gained a few pounds (or anything else I needed to hear). On the other hand, I really do believe you catch more flies with honey. Challenges can be fun, particularly when they fly with the zeitgeist, but some people really don't need a kick up the backside. It depends why they need to lose weight, and why they choose to go to a group to do it. Going to your group, even if they're unsuccessful, might give them a break from bigger problems. If their feelings are actually the bigger issue, hurting them with too much honesty might do more harm than good. It may even drive them away, which might be bad for reasons other than their weight.

    Your giggling ladies may be making light of things because they're embarrassed and frustrated at gaining and losing the same few pounds over and over. On the other hand, if they've only got a few pounds to lose, it's probably just an evening out ... and they may go for coffee and cake afterwards :D

    Like you, I want to see everyone succeed. It can be frustrating when you can see someone doing something you know isn't going to help them lose weight in the long run, but everyone has to choose their own battles.

  • Its not always but when nothing else is working. Sometimes I think Doctors need to stop taking the, lets try this pill attitude to health and literally say, look you are killing yourself and no amount of pills will help unless you start helping yourself. Sometimes honesty is best. Like I said, its a rare but useful tool

  • Interesting comments dadtoad. You're obviously giving a great deal in your local village and it's a wonderful achievement to enable so many people reach their goals.

    As for how to deal with people who've put up a few pounds , I come at it from the angle of where I was trained. I'm a voluntary parent supporter and we were trained in active listening skills. The core conditions are empathy acceptance and integrity. Conveying empathy is done by checking you understand the other person's point of view. "So you're saying you found it hard this week because ..."

    Appropriate challenging is also a skill. You would normally use 'I' statements: I'm puzzled. I thought you said this first and then I thought you did the other, and there's such a mismatch there I'm wondering if I've misunderstood something.

    I do wonder if that's possible on an Internet forum. However it might be worth noting that the moderators are highly skilled. If someone puts up weight they're gentle, but always hold up the prospect of returning on track the next week.

    Now was that longwinded or not!!

  • I only go down the 'stop and listen' route once everything else has not worked. 99% of the time I use the carrot but sometimes a stick is needed to get them thinking of what is actually going on when they are not honestly be true to themselves. It is very rare indeed. I have never had anyone come back and say it is unfair and it is done on a one to one and not in the presence of the group as that could make them feel embarrassed.....

  • Personally, I find the use of the word 'loser' derogatory. I'm not a 'loser' I'm something trying to lead a healthy lifestyle. As moreless noted without the benefit of face to face interaction we all need to have heightened awareness of what we type into these little message boxes. I find this forum useful as it treats people as individuals. I much prefer when people talk with me rather than talk at me.

  • I'm guessing you've never seen the biggest loser then. How you take the word is on yourself. It is not as a derogatory word at all but a word that can group those that want to lose weight. Words only become derogatory if you let them or you can reclaim them and change them into a positive.

  • I took the word loser as a tongue in cheek comment. I mean we all hope to be lovers - of weight :-)

  • Sorry, I'm really struggling to transform that word into a positive. I now feel any benefit I've gain from this forum has been truly lost. "Words only become derogatory if you let them or you can reclaim them and change them into a positive ..." what utter nonsense - come back to me with an acceptable use of the word "nigger"!

  • I know exactly how you feel. I too sometimes wonder just why this particular word was chosen. Please don't give up on the forum. The vast majority of members are nothing but supportive and helpful and would never dream of hurting others.

  • I've never had one person say that they were not happy to be the biggest 'loser' in my group. In fact, a lady yesterday whom has been struggling really badly with her weight lost 8lbs (we meet every two weeks) was in tears, happy ones, at being the biggest loser and we all clapped and cheered her. If you cannot find the positive in 'loser' then that is with you and not me.

    Loser... Someone who is losing or has lost something

    And as for the N word, it was a positive that everyone, black and white, decided firstly never to use it and to try and banish it. I would have never published that word on any forum. That's the positive but feel free to look for the negative. It can be found everywhere....

  • Guessing we're all lovers of losers.... Hopefully if I can stay focused.....

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