Covid Antibodies

[Hocus58]

Hi has anyone with PV who has had Covid done an antibody test ? I had a negative PCR test done in September last year and was asked to do an antibody test which came back to say that antibodies had been found from a vaccine. After catching Covid in November I was asked again to do the test and it came back “antibodies found from vaccine and infection”. So the body's immune system had made antibodies through infection.

I just wondered if anyone else could shed any light on whether there was any explanation as to how long these antibodies last and would PV cause them to wane quickly.

Cheers

[EPguy]

I follow this info closely. As with so many things there is no complete answer, and take my info here as a just starting point to learn more.

I'm not aware of any PV specific aspects to the durability. In prior posts we've seen that most MPNs respond ok to the vax vs certain other blood cancers. But some members have seen low or zero antibodies after getting vaxed. In this area you're in good shape since you have responded to both vax and infection. You also have what's called hybrid immunity, both vax and infection. I have that also. It's considered a very good protection since it protects in possibly different ways.

There are two types of protection that result from vax and/or infection, quick and slower. (among others). Antibodies, which you were tested, work fast to reduce your chance of getting infected since they are already in your blood. These last about 2-4 months based on what I've seen recently. Experts last year were hoping this would be longer. After that you're less protected against initial infection, that's why they keep talking about boosters.

Once the antibodies wear off you still have anti Covid T -cells which look for and kill infected cells. Also you have B-cells that have now learned to more quickly make the antibodies you need. These are part of our WBC we see in blood tests so very low values of certain WBCs can be a problem. T and B cells both act slower than the active antibodies you were tested for, that's why reinfection is more common after that 2-4 months. But long lasting T and B cells do greatly reduce odds of hospital or death, that's one reason we are recently seeing plenty of infections but fewer really bad outcomes.

The vaxes we get are made to work against the original Wuhan strain, (the one I caught) so the resulting antibodies are not as targeted for current variants although still very helpful. But T cells we make from vax or infection tend to act against a broader group of variants than antibodies do.

Experts are learning fast so we never get really clear answers to any of this so far, hence the always changing info. But you should follow the recommendations of your local authorities.

Others here likely will have additional details, comments.

[Hocus58 in reply to EPguy]

Thank you for your response. Well explained in plain easy to understand language 👍 I am at the beginning of my PV diagnosis and sometimes it’s hard to digest what is being said and taking it all in, thank you.

[catkinspolymer]

I was tested after second jab and no anti bodies were found but diont forget T cells

[Hocus58 in reply to catkinspolymer]

Thank you for your response. Can you advise how they know with regards T cells or is that taken as a given ? Cheers

[EPguy in reply to Hocus58]

There is actually much new knowledge lately with T-cell immunity from the recent covid research.

Here is one among many examples of T-cells vs covid:

nature.com/articles/s41590-...

<<Current COVID-19 vaccines elicit robust T cell responses that likely contribute to remarkable protection against hospitalization or death>>

T-cells provide broad long lasting protection: <<T cell memory encompasses broad recognition of viral proteins, ... and seems to be well sustained so far....to underpin protection against severe disease from viral variants, including Omicron>>

--

But T-cells are complicated, including two well known types cd4 and cd8:

pediaa.com/what-is-the-diff...

CD4s work with B cells to make antibodies while CD8 are the "killer" ones that go after infected cells.

<<CD4 T cells produce cytokines to activate immune cells including B cells ... CD8 T cells destroy virus-infected cells and tumour cells>> Note the word tumour, this also relates to the new immune therapies for cancer, including potential CALR therapies, a whole other subject.

Note also <<CD4 and CD8 T cells are two types of T lymphocytes>> Lymphocytes are part of our WBC counts, that's one reason WBCs matter.

--

One problem is T cells are expensive to test for, but there is work going on to make it a more routine test.

[Hopetohelp]

I seem to have reverted back to et from pv and have too many platelets, 700. I am tested each month on the Oxford survey and have been showing higher antibodies, versus lower or none, and had my 3rd jab in November last year. Have just been tested again and awaiting results. Will be interesting as wbc have gone down recently from effects of peg from average of 10 or 11 to 8.89. Was invited for my 4th jab but due to higher immunity didn’t take it up but 6 months has elapsed now so will be booking it in. I might be an odd one out but might be of interest with your question

[forwardocho]

I had an anti-body test after my 5th vaccine, as I was informed antibodies increase the more vaccines you have. I understood I was to be informed how many actual antibodies were found in my results, instead I was informed that antibodies were 'present' in my test. I'm clearly none the wiser, albeit antibodies are present!