is this typical of OA?

[MEGS53]

Hi lovely people.

I’ve posted a photo of my left hand. I can’t extend/ straighten my thumb any further than shown. Is this typical of OA? Or perhaps the muscles or tendons are contracting?

I’d appreciate any thoughts 😘

[ChrissiG]

Does it hurt in the joint when you try to extend it further? If it does then it’s probably OA but if it just won’t go any further then could be a tendon/ligament problem. Probably the best thing would be to ask your doctor to send you for an X-ray. If it OA it will show it.

I had to have a joint replaced in my right thumb 20 years ago but it was very painful. I couldn’t put any pressure on it - for instance to write. It was like electric shocks through the joint.

[MEGS53 in reply to ChrissiG]

Thanks for your reply.

It just hurts 😬 not only when I try to extend it . It aches right thro to the bone - if that makes any sense. But I also get more intense pain/spasms.

I’ve had the electric shock experience too (not just in my hands tho), but my Drs put that down to fibro.

Fortunately, I’m right handed but my other hand has started to join the fun, and now I’m worried.

Thanks again, much appreciated

[ChrissiG in reply to MEGS53]

I would try and get it Xrayed if you can. Doctors put everything down to fibro! I have that too plus EDS and Peripheral Neuropathy so never quite sure what’s causing all my aches and pains! Hope you get up the bottom of it.

[KnitSewPurl in reply to ChrissiG]

Hahaha tell me abt it docs put down everything to fibro . Even my spinal and hip pain the put down to fibro. When for a DX scan still waiting for that report form my surgery to put it up on the NH S site the got the report but have not reported it on the site!!. Most unprofessional.

[KnitSewPurl in reply to KnitSewPurl]

Got my report back finally from my surgery it turned out that I have a bone density issue on my left femur said to be minor 🙄🤷‍♀️ minor !!if that they consider some one with autoimmune condition. Oh well ,on high calcium dose and alendronic acid . Anyone has those before pls let me know.

[MEGS53 in reply to ChrissiG]

Hi

I’ve made an appointment to see my GP, but Ive got quite a wait. If I just turn up to XR I know I’ll be there all day and I’m not sure I’m up for that!

Thanks for your concern, I certainly know what you mean by not knowing what’s causing what 🤨

Take care xxx

[CecilyParsley]

Hi Meg I have a thumb that is restricted in its movement. My GP said ask the Rheumy, the Rheumy said speak to the Ortho, the Ortho said speak to the Rheumy. I was watching a programme on GP surgeries and soneone came in with the exact same problem and was quickly diagnosed with trigger finger. I wear my cuff when it gets bad and I too am getting the same issues starting with my left hand too. So sorry lovely I know how painful it is xxx

[MEGS53]

Ahhhh, the pass the parcel game. I know it well 🤨🤨🤨

Many years ago I had surgery to correct a trigger finger, little finger of right hand, so I understand this one.

I also wear a cuff on my left hand when it gets too painful. I does help. Don’t know how I’ll manage with a cuff on each hand tho 😵😵😵

And I don’t have Finlay cuddles to make me feel better 🥰

Take care xxx

[StriatedCaracara]

Hi Megs53

I'm having issues with tendons in my right hand and forearm at the moment.

I'm trying to gently exercise my hand and arm each day and sometimes massaging with lotion to try to keep the mobility.

Here is the Lupus UK medical professionals' page on joint issues. When I read this I was struck by how much tendons could be involved rather than changes inside the joint itself.

lupusuk.org.uk/medical/lupu...

Thanks for posting. Looking for answers too. Take care.

[MEGS53 in reply to StriatedCaracara]

Hi SC

Thanks for you reply and info. I’ll take a look at it when I get the chance. I know exactly what you mean about dismissive Drs🤨, cos I’ve had a few in my time too.

I’ve just done a spot of reading about Dupuytrens contractures and this may be a possibility for me. Have you given any thought to it?

Take care xxx

[StriatedCaracara]

and this is a video showing a comprehensive hand examination (1hr 20 minutes)

youtube.com/watch?v=lThe_ZV...(Not working as expected?)

The lecturer talks quickly. I stopped the film every now and then to do tests I felt most relevant.

I learnt a lot about complexity of the hand and doing the relevant tests made me feel I understood things a bit better.

Looking forward to hearing from others on this.

(I did have a face to face GP appointment. Held my hand out and they did nothing. Hence resorting to the Internet.)

[MrsMarigold]

hi Meg. I have dupuytrens contracture. In my feet as well although a different name. My tendons are wiry and tough. I can not extend any of my fingers without forcibly thinking of it

[MEGS53 in reply to MrsMarigold]

Hi Mrs M

I did vaguely think Dupuytrens could be a possibility, but I mistakenly thought it would manifest in the 30-50 age group. I’m 70.

I’ve done a spot of reading about Dupuytrens now and learnt that it can show itself after an acute injury and such events might be triggers for the disorder. Of note, I fractured my left wrist about a year ago - although I was aware of pain and stiffness in my thumb and other fingers before then. I thought it was ‘just’ OA 🤷‍♀️. My new GP saw it a few months ago while examining my foot ( he dx’d planar faciculitis) shrugged and said ‘ouch’ 😳😳😳

What should be my next move as I defo can’t extend the thumb? I’ve made an appointment to see my GP, but his dismissive ‘ouch’ doesn’t give me much hope tbh.

BTW, I have EDS and several associated conditions, but not Lupus

Thanks again xxx

[Stills in reply to MrsMarigold]

just saying hi as a fellow DC sufferer. Very interesting about your feet. Note my diagnosis is Stills Disease which for me manifests as RD. Rigidity and pain in my feet is a misery I assumed was RD not knowing there was a DC type connection. May I ask what it’s called please?

[MrsMarigold in reply to Stills]

Hi Stills. It is called ledderhose disease.

It manifests very similarly to DC. Massage therapy on regular basis is best therapy I’ve found but that is too expensive for me. I’m sorry you have it as well. Oh, compression socks do provide comfort when not in the company of others!😍

[Stills in reply to MrsMarigold]

Thank you I’ll read up on it, I wear an ankle brace already to that may be helping, wishing you good days .

[Stills]

Note my diagnosis is Stills Disease which for me manifests as RD. I have many lumpy bumpy bendy twisty stiffy issues with digits. In recent years my left little fingers has become crooked, bending in towards the palm. I noticed thick rope like structures appearing in the palm in both hands over a few years . Apparently it’s a rare AI related condition called Dupuytrens Contracture also known as Viking Dusease. Worth investigating perhaps although it’s quite rare, anyway hope you find some answers and relief soon.

[MEGS53 in reply to Stills]

Hi Stills

Thanks a lot for your input, much appreciated.

Yes, Dupuytrens is a possibility ( please see my reply to Mrs M above). I didn’t know it’s an AI condition, none of my family have had it so far as I’m aware, although OA is common in the women. Of interest my non-identical twin sister has no sign of OA.

How was it dx’d? Perhaps it’s known to be associated with Stills/RA conditions?

Hope you’re as well as possible - I’ve missed your posts 😘

[Stills in reply to MEGS53]

Thank for you kind words, I lost my Dad and Step Dad both on 29th December then my ex husband on 17th February so I have two grieving widows in their 80s and two grieving adult sons to support. At the same time I’m having a cancer scare and ongoing tests, could be ovarian or lymphoma so life has been topsy turvey. My Dad was a non identical twin and his twin is female, he died of Non Hodgkinsons Lymphoma which she doesn’t have, he also had Dupuytrens which she doesn’t. They used to go to twin research clinics as Guinea pigs. We have another two sets of twins on both sides of the family, both identical but it’s skipped a generation and all the twins are now over 60. Interestingly I was carrying twins with my first pregnancy but lost one really early in which is common apparently. Thanks for your reply.

[Stills in reply to MEGS53]

Meant to say DC tends to run in families and my brother also has it. He went privately for diagnosis and was told operations to release the fingers are 50/50 and they tend to return to contracted after a few years. So no cure I’m afraid.

[MEGS53 in reply to Stills]

Oh Stills, I’m so sorry to read this. You’ve had a really 💩 time, I’m sending lots of gentle hugs 🤗🤗🤗. Please take time to be kind to yourself.

My twin sister and I are taking part in the 100,000 genes project to investigate the genetic basis of rare diseases. Nothing much has been highlighted for us so far, but it all adds to knowledge databases I guess

Thanks again for your input. Take care sweetie 💐💐💐💐💐

[OldTed60]

hi there Megs. My right thumb looks very similar to your photo with a large bony protrusion in the upper joint. For a long time it was very sore and stiff so my first rheumatologist attributed to RA swan neck deformity. But next one did ultrasound and no. Early this year xrays showed I have mild OA in multiple finger joints.

But I also have hEDS and what a lupus friend thinks is Jaccoud’s arthropathy. This corresponds in little finger drift and swan neck thumb. However a specialist rheumatology dr was dismissive when I asked about this in May whike inpatient. But then same specialist Dr also pinched skin on backs of hands and said no systemic sclerosis - yet I recently had SSc unequivocally confirmed by the expert!

So I’m still going to ask my own rheumatologist what they think as they are a lupus specialist and the ulnar drift makes my grip very weak and stiff in my right (dominant) hand. I can’t cut bread or open pill pots or cases now. I did show my rheumatologist last time because it’s how everything started in my hands many years ago and she agreed not OA but didn’t say what it was.

I also asked the scleroderma Professor why my hands often lock overnight so can’t open /unfurl or clench in mornings for ages. He said “we don’t really know why this happens but we think it’s fluid retention related to increased vascularity”. Seemed to think this was typical scleroderma trait for me but later said I’m very hypermobile too so maybe multiple issues for you also?

[MEGS53]

Hi OldTed

Good to hear from you! Hope you’re feeling a bit better now after all the hospital admissions earlier.

You may remember, I’ve been dx’d with EDS (probably hEDS, but others are being considered) and some of the associated nasties. Not lupus

As well as the left thumb contracture (?) all my toes, except the big one, of my left foot are ‘claw-like’. My new GP recently dx’d planar faciculitis in this foot when I described pain along the ridge under my toes. He ignored that my toes are clawed - mind you my left foot is disgusting ( the right one is quite pretty in comparison 😂) I had a Morton’s neuroma removed from the left one about 20y ago. Ive also had surgery many years ago to correct a trigger finger (in my right hand).

My grip is very poor in both hands. Always had difficulty opening bottles etc etc. My hands also seem to lock for several seconds when I’ve been using them a lot eg sewing 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Please send your thoughts and any info of relevance you may gleam from your Drs.

Take care 😘

[Halfwayuphill]

Hi Megs, all of my fingers except my thumbs funnily enough cannot straighten. It happened to me when I first developed Raynauds and like Old Ted they became extremely weak and painful. I have UCTD and then had RNP antibody. I believe it happens with MCTD/overlap and Scleroderma. I’m not sure about Lupus. Luckily for me over the years the weakness and pain has improved but my fingers have not straightened. It does flare up from time to time. Funnily enough Prof Denton has just put in my last clinic letter that I have a degree of hyper mobility! Perhaps there is a connection. Hopefully as the drug you are on kicks in it might help. Hope the pain gets better.

And hope you are feeling better too Old Ted. I’ve had a day of running to the loo but luckily at home 🙄! Sx

[MEGS53 in reply to Halfwayuphill]

Hi

Thanks for your reply.

Perhaps there is a connection between EDS and crooked digits 😬🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Haven’t got any medication. Waiting to hear from a specialist Dr Pain as amitriptyline, gabapentin, pregabalin just don’t do it for me, at recommended doses anyway. Mind you, the ‘living well with pain’ clinic said I deserve a gold star for living well with pain 😬😬😬😇😇😇

[MrsMarigold]

Meg, my brother and I are only 12 Months apart and he seems to be collecting my jewelry box of physical aches. We are in the States. Recently he had a thorough physical and rheumatologist appt. His DX for hands and other parts was osteoarthritis and the rheumatologist explained that osteoarthritis affects the muscles as well as joints. We were both surprised.

My hands and clawed feet remind me of your description. One physical therapy exercise I do at home has helped. Put about 40 marbles on the floor. Pick them up with your toes and put them over to the side or back in container. It helps to have a massage first to relax tendons. But every

Day my toes and feet feel better. Best to you.

[MrsMarigold]

Meg I just extended both my hands and my thumbs look like yours. My hands can be red like yours and feet as I have EM and Raynauds. This is silly I know but my thumbs are bottom feeders when it comes to my concern so I didn’t really know until I put them to the your test in picture. I think it is OA. My dupuytrens was diagnosed by a hand Dr. And my feet by a podiatrist/ he had a name of which I have forgotten but he was equally surprised as this apparently is a Viking disease lol. I’ll have to do one of the DNA tests to find my real heritage. 😎

[MEGS53]

thanks for the info, much appreciated.

Totally agree that my thumbs aren’t a priority in the overall picture. It’s more that I’m still trying to pull together a firm dx as more symptoms - and areas of pain - continue to appear.

Do you think my hands and feet (and knee ) probs can be explained by OA?

Xxx

[MrsMarigold in reply to MEGS53]

I think it’s possible but of course it’s good to have them professionally evaluated. We all try to help each other but we can’t diagnose you and I know you know that!

I tore my rotator cuff. I’m 5 weeks almost out from surgery. How do lupus ED and other autoimmune people heal?’ With OA 😍

[MEGS53 in reply to MrsMarigold]

Bless you 💖

Hope your recovery goes as well as possible 😘