Absolutely no healthcare - not even access to GP

[Ceri-NorthWales]

Hi again,

Sorry to post again, I am in desperate need of help. I don't even have access to a GP now. Please help. I need help desperately and in more ways than one. Please

[Kevin53]

Please phone [phone]

[Ceri-NorthWales in reply to Kevin53]

I have tried this. Lines are undersandably busy. It says 'press one' to leave a message for a callback. But this doesn't work. I have tried twice now. It doesn't let you leave a message.

[CecilyParsley]

Did you call your Surgery this morning Ceri?

[Ceri-NorthWales in reply to CecilyParsley]

Yes, to ask for a phone consultation - which is apparently still happening, still waiting. I eventually got through as I got off the bus near there.

Was there for B12

[CecilyParsley in reply to Ceri-NorthWales]

That is positive then Ceri. You are getting your B 12 and will get to speak to a GP. That is a more positive result than yesterday ❤️

[Ceri-NorthWales in reply to CecilyParsley]

Today, I have no GP, they have removed me from the list. And no, I didn't kick off. Last Wednesday I did, because despite fighting so hard for this, they said that was the last injection and it would be oral B12 only. Clearly, they have no idea about B12 and found out today that the one who had a special interest in B12 has left with the changeover from GP run to run by BCUHB.

I have insufficient B12 loading doses. No access to even a GP and now no way of getting medication. How can they do this? No will be taking on in this pandemic, so what the hell do I do?!

[CecilyParsley in reply to Ceri-NorthWales]

I am so very sorry that your surgery have taken this decision but you have to be provided with a GP. I know in South Wales where to call but totally unsure about North Wales. I am sure that there is help for you. Maybe someone else in North Wales can advise you

[Ceri-NorthWales in reply to CecilyParsley]

Thank you, but who though? I don't even have a car to get out and in this pandemic, nowhere will be taking on - and understandably given the huge increase with already big workload.

[Ceri-NorthWales in reply to CecilyParsley]

How am I supposed to get repeat prescriptions? What if I need healthcare, which I do?

All the issues with the GP surgery started when they announced they were going to be run by BCUHB. The quality of care went downhill overnight and with all the added stress of the changeover, this came at the detriment to patients at the surgery.

How I am supposed to get B12? How I supposed to even be monitored at a GP level for SLE, PPPD, leukopenia, neutropenia, mental health? I wouldn't mind if I was healthy. But I am far from it.

I have nowhere to turn. And this to add on to all of my other worries? Come on, how much is someone supposed to take? I wish COVID-19 was in the top 5 of worries like it is for millions, but it's not even close to top 10 because of so much going on.

How can it be allowed that someone can be this lost, this much in crisis. There really is no way out.

[CecilyParsley in reply to Ceri-NorthWales]

There is a way out Ceri. You need to contact another GP in your area and unless they are at capacity they have to take you. It might be a good thing as you will get a new patient assessment. Your records if they are electronic will be transferred quickly so it will be a new start for you.

[Kevin53 in reply to Ceri-NorthWales]

There is guidance about this on the Citizens Advice Website: - citizensadvice.org.uk/wales...

“There are some reasons why your GP might have to take you off their list of patients. These include if you move out of the area covered by the practice, or if you have been verbally or physically abusive to people at the surgery.

You should normally receive a warning and explanation before this takes place. However, if you have been violent towards staff, your GP can take you off their list immediately.

If you have been removed from a GP’s list you might want to complain. For example, you might feel you have been treated unfairly or that discrimination was involved. You might be able to get help to complain from a Citizens Advice Bureau. To find details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by e-mail, click on nearest CAB.

For more information about making a complaint, see NHS complaints in Wales.

More information about discrimination in health and care”

[MEGS53 in reply to Ceri-NorthWales]

Hi Ceri. I'm so sad to read you're still having an awful time. May I ask why your GP removed you from their list - they must have given a reason. And why did the police call to see you last night?

Am I correct that the police advised you to see your GP today? If so, then it may be worth contacting them to ask what you can do now that you don't have a GP. As CP says, a new GP may be more amenable to your problems.

Please update us when you can, but also be aware that, although we really want to help, the reality is that we cannot do much except offer support (a HU member put it much more eloquently than me last night, soz - I've forgotten her name). Take care, xxx

[MandieR]

Hi, what is happening to make you sound so distressed? Can I help in any way?

[Ceri-NorthWales in reply to MandieR]

Hi Mandie, firstly, thank you for your message, but unfortunately, that's no simple answer.

Was involved in a car crash on March 16th in the overtaking line of the A55, toward the end of rushhour. Two cars were apparently racing and slammed on - therefore, causing the crash. I say apparently, as I had a 69 plate Discovery in front and in my Kia Proceed, couldn't see past it - even at a distance. That stretch of the A55 is noturious for both 'boy racers' and crashes due to the road layout and double sliproad on/off. I was only doing about 50mph anyway, then all I saw was red brake lights from the Discovery. The Discovery only stopped due to automatic brakes, stopped within millimetres of the car in front. Me, in my beloved Kia, not so lucky (pic is in my post from history if you click on my profile). Discovery driver, fantastic and was more worried about me than his bumper. He actually works for Land Rover and just said he'd get the guys to put it back on tomorrow - he was brilliant!

ESure are my insurers, they are refusing to investifate the crash - I have finally managed to get the incidient number today, so big yes! ESure are refusing to contact an independent witness who not only saw the two cars that caused the crash, but reported them to 101 that evening, complete with car details. But ESure refuse to contact him or investigate. Apparently, regardless of circumstances, I am at fault as I went into the back of the car. Even the police have said it was mitigating circumstances and all 4 accounts of us on the evening were identical - apart from mine where I didn't see the wreckless drivers.

ESure have massively undervalued my car and despite saying this can be discussed, they won't. I took advice and everyone said 'don't accept their first offer, get autotrader quotes etc and they will increase it.' I did. I created a 19 page document. Nothing.

I have recently been refused PIP, scored 0 points, despite over 100 pages of evidence. CAB are brilliant and I am s grateful they are still working. They have drafted me a mandatory reconsideration letter. I am awaiting neurology report, to give as extra evidence . He diagnosed PPPD on March 20th, which means the dizziness I have been experiencing for a year, I hvae massively underexagerated and downplayed.

Health, I have SLE, diagnosed Oct 2019 (made redundant two weeks' later), it is active and untreated as I have no rheumatologist - mainly politcal and devolved NHS reasons. Have permanent/chronic leukopenia and neutropenia, severe B12 deficiency which has been untreated since first discovered July 2019 when I had neurological symptoms back then.

No fewer than 10 referrals to North Wales Mental Health Team since May 2019 from GPs, consultants, paramedics, a+e and police, ALL rejected. I don't fit the 'criteria' - since when did any healthcare fit into boxes? Due to devolution, can't go to Chester teams (which I have heard good things from). I fought this long and hard and have taken it all the way to the Head and Senoir manager. Things have to change and if just one person gets the help they need and deserve as a result of me fighting this, then my life, efforts and death have purpose.

That is just fraction of everything going on. No chance of getting a car due to no money, no PIP, can't get finance due to not being in work due to redudancy, can't work until SLE is under control, which isn't going to happen as I have zero access to healthcare. Life is stressful.

[MandieR in reply to Ceri-NorthWales]

Wow! Ok, no wonder you are sounding stressed. Is there an email I can contact you on? I have a couple of things I would like to share with you and also a couple of contacts, but it would be quite long winded so dont want to take up too much time/space on this forum xx

[happytulip]

Hi Ceri,

I'm not quite sure what has happened for you to be removed from your GP?

From my medical days I was taught that as a citizen of the United Kingdom you have a legal right to

1. Access to a GP

2. To be able to book in at an Emergency Dept.

However, having access to a GP and being able to book in at an Emergency Dept does not mean that you have a right to receive or demand treatment. The law may have changed since and I am happy to be corrected.

But it is my belief that you should legally have access to a GP.

[sarahsch in reply to happytulip]

Hi Happytulip,

Are you saying that you can be diagnosed with sle or other medical condition, but you have no legal right to treatment for it?

I would have thought if you sustained harm as a result this would meet the legal test for clinical negligence.

Sarah x

[happytulip in reply to sarahsch]

It's complex.

What I was saying is that when it gets down to brass tacks, having access to a GP or booking into an emergency dept are your only legal rights.

If you were to be diagnosed with a malignancy, long-term medical condition and NOT be treated for it, it would be highly unusual.

The reason that I made the previous comment was because I had 15yrs of working front line in the NHS. We had a particular program in one A&E for people on the "violent patient register." The patients on this register had been removed from various surgeries in the local area but if they needed or wanted to see a GP they would have to have a pre-arranged appointment with a GP, within the emergency dept with a team of security guards present. This meant that the patient had access to a GP and a the GP was in a safe environment.

Often they would see the same GP because continuation of care is vital in many instances.

Also, from my experience, many people would turn up in A&E and become "frequent attenders." Some people would book in 365 days a year or even more. There were management plans in place for these patients. While they had a legal right to book in at reception (which cost about £126 in itself), they could not demand treatment. Every attendance was treated upon its own merit but the patients could not demand an x-ray and just get it. A nurse or doctor had to have good reason to send a patient for an x-ray and only if it was clinically indicated.

Many people would book into A&E and say "I've come for a CT scan, I've seen something on TV and I think I need one. " While they are entitled to book in, no A&E doctor or radiologist would request and approve a CT scan of it wasn't indicated.

With the GP situation, a GP surgery has the right to remove patients from their list if there has been verbal or physical threats or incidents. They can also remove patients if the surgery feels that the relationship/rapport with the patient has deteriorated beyond repair, although all possibilities to avoid this should be exhausted first. I believe that there is an appeals process.

But in answer to your question. It would be a very brave GP who would not treat a patient for a long-term or acute medical problem without any understand and explainable cause.

But it is true. You have a right to access to a GP, and a right to book in at an A&E, but this does not mean that you will automatically receive treatment m

The exception with A&E is when a patient is RED-CARDED from a hospital, in which they have to go to another hospital because they have been violent or made threats to kill etc to staff at their local A&E. This is a decision made my a high level team at a MDT. However, if said RED-CARDED patient was to arrive in a life-threatening condition they would receive life saving Emergency Care.

All this is hypothetical and general information in regard to your question. And this is the information bthatbi believe to be current, yet I did leave the NHS is 2017.

I hope I have been able to answer your question and would point out that it is a general reply and does not reflect on Ceri and her circumstances in any way.

I have no idea why she has been removed from her GP and I am eager for her to get the important on-going treatment that she needs.

I feel very helpless to the situation.

[Jhpc]

Good morning Ceri, my heart goes out to you, you have so much going on, I hope you get the help that you need right now.

Plenty of advice given hope it helps.

My husband who has asthma was also getting vitamin B12 injections, but since the lockdown in Jersey C.I. He has been recommended to get them in tablet form from Amazon...I dare say it’s not nearly the same as the injections, but understand they are trying to curtail as many people as possible in going into the GP surgery.

Take care and let us know how you get on. X

[Hidden in reply to Jhpc]

My pal with pernicious anaemia, Hashimoto’s, Addisons and Sjögren’s has also been refused her B12 injections for same reason - not in Wales.

[TM1970 in reply to Hidden]

But pernicious anemia is a condition were your body cannot absorb B12 , the injections are imperative, unless your friend has secondary B12 insufficiency then tabs are ok.

[Hidden in reply to TM1970]

She has primary - is preparing to do battle with GP by enlisting her endo. She’s 65 and been on injections since her mid 20s. Point is seems to be an urgent issue affecting many in UK not just CeriNW

[MEGS53 in reply to Hidden]

I think it must be regional, as I got my B12 jab earlier this week and another one is in the diary for 10 weeks, as usual. I have low B12 with gastric parietal cell autoantibodies.

[CarolMcl in reply to MEGS53]

We're in Scotland and my partner was informed by GP practice that a prescription for Vit B12 tablets would be left for him at the pharmacy

[MEGS53 in reply to CarolMcl]

I'm worried that my injections will be stopped soon!

[Hidden in reply to MEGS53]

I know it’s not as effective having it injected - but if you do have to then I was told years ago that Jarrow sublingual were the only type I should take by someone on the Thyroid community.

[TM1970 in reply to Hidden]

Well her gp has made a colossal mistake, it’s not called pernicious for nothing...definitely get endo on board, it’s to do the intrinsic factor, which means your body cannot absorb b12, that’s why it must be given by im injection. Tx

[Hidden in reply to TM1970]

Yes I know - and of course so does my friend. All I was trying to say is that it’s not just Ceri in her north wales area who is encountering this kind of GP ignorance - that’s all.

[TM1970 in reply to Hidden]

Oh you misunderstand, I’m furious they’re putting your friend in danger, it can cause terrible symptoms if left, I ended up in hospital. If it’s your friends gp who stopped it, file a complaint against him/her, T

[Hidden in reply to TM1970]

Well don’t worry unduly because my friend can look after herself and will get her B12 jabs - if only because she’s a force to be reckoned with and also because she has severe Addisons. I totally agree it’s very wrong though to be denying treatment to people who need these injections to function properly.

[CarolMcl]

I think there's a high possibility that they will be

[happytulip]

Any progress Ceri?

[Ceri-NorthWales]

I am done.

[happytulip in reply to Ceri-NorthWales]

What's happened?

[Ceri-NorthWales in reply to happytulip]

Everything that I have explained.