Hi. The name of this post sets many things clear and it's actually what I wanted to ask.
So mixed up feelings overwhelm me! The situation is as follows: there are so many books on Amazon now telling every single detail of ivf/eggdonation/surrogacy journey of a certain lady or couple. I got a bit puzzled by it. My idea is that this information is so personal! really - this is your way to parenting, these details should be so much intimate. Don't you think? and women are not only sharing their stories publicly, but they are also making money on it! I just want to know other people's opinion.
Am I right or wrong?
If so, prove please
Thanx in advance
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Katt_bee
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Hi. It's a good question actually. I think the answer depends on what is allowed to be public for every person. At once it seems not right because these things are private and deeply personal. it's your impressions, your experience and you may share with your family and friends. however, it's not always that easy. On the other hand, such things could be very useful for those who only start their journeys and any experience is helpful. Maybe there is a happy medium. I mean, communities like this one. You can always choose what you want to share and what is better to keep only in your mind. Anyways, I haven't read any fertility diaries, but I would love to if I have a chance
ok, sure, sure, you're right. happy medium, blah-blah... I'm not talking about communities or forums like this. I was actually talking about books and diaries published publicly and even sold for money. Have you ever met such books online? Maybe you don't understand what I'm talking about?
I definitely understand what you mean, katt_bee. No need to judge those who think that such diaries are something out of normal. Maybe it's not for you and it's alright. I read a blog of one woman and it's sort of online diary. I haven't met such books for sale, but I don't think it's bad to sell them. Everyone can publish whatever he or she wants and make money in such a manner.
there's tons of such book on sale at Amazon. I can't figure it out who really reads this all.
Is there anyone whose child was conceived naturally? A question for you: did you write a book or blog on how you were "making" your baby and how you felt after that?
i'm sure there are those who not only read these books, but also need them. people like reading different stories, especially if they are kind of special. I think even those who are not familiar with infertility would find such things interesting.
Regarding your thoughts about natural conception, well, can't say such comparison is appropriate. But maybe there is at least one book about this. Freedom of expression was for everyone last time I checked
oh, yes, I did. I'm actually still facing it, but this is MY PERSONAL. My husband and my doctor are the only two people I'll discuss this question with.
why I'm asking this? well, I find this unethical, outrageous and inappropriate - I mean to be pouring tons of your intimate details on others, especially for money. damn, who needs it?
I know but sometimes people can be cruel. We are not protected from them. It's their nature.
I don't want to say that all we are different and can't behave in the same way. I suppose that women just wanted to share their experience at that's all.
My point of view is next - they want to publish books they are welcome. Maybe sometime it will be useful for other people.
I didn't say it, I didn't say that they wanted to cover all expenses for fertility treatment. What if it is only about sharing experience with other? How could you be sure they are so mercenary-minded?
no, I'm not absolutely sure in it, but this is what comes to my mind first. If i wanted to share my experience with the one who really needs it, I would do it for free
It's all up to you. As I said we are different and have different points of view. So, it is obvious these women act like they feel to. I most of women didn't support you, hm, very interesting.
Probably, the purpose of publishing such books is good, and will not cause any harm.
The question is really disputable….I think it’s a normal thing! People face some problems, go through the difficulties, get the treatment and finally obtain what they really want, in this particular case, the children and share with others. There are millions of those who had already overcome this problem and those who are only in the beginning of their way…and it will be useful for them to read true stories, about ups and downs, struggles and successful ending that will encourage others to make their life better and hope for the best! I really don’t see anything bad in it.
We are all modern people, are not we? Actually the topic “fertility issue” becomes our struggle and overcoming this mess we give it a sacred meaning. This theme is hard to us. But we should understand we’re people of freedom that means we may announce our life to the whole world. Some of us feel need of this act. On my opinion if published books about battle for the fertility give a help it will be perfect!
ok, have you ever ready any of these books? Got any useful information for yourself? Or maybe you just got overwhelmed with someone else's struggles and felt even weaker than before?
I can assume being here I’ve read more than just one book about infertility and you too. Every day we speak with poor women who ask for support and help, who tell their stories because they need to be heard. Actually we read through million volumes of Encyclopedia of human misfortunes.
Don’t you absorb the pain when you read someone’s stories? Or you are on forums just to announce your own news and senile complains?
I'm not a devoted forum poster, not here neither at any other place. but i use facebook and is signed for a few infertility support groups there. I thought these groups were meant for other purposes, but evidently I was wrong. They all post their photos of embryos and babies in the uterus and say this is amazing and blah blah. Maybe my mind was designed the other way and I just can't understand this all... what for?
I think it depends on individual sensitiveness. We are fighting, suffering and trying to make our dreams come true. We all wait for the same final, but our general feelings and impressions aren’t similar at all. We explore this world in different way. I can understand the girls who expect for their babies and call small round bodies – my sweet pea, and want to share their happiness with the whole planet. Because it’s about their way of expression.
So what kind of treatment do you want to receive? It must be recommended by your doctor after full medical survey. In this case it may guarantee any success.
It’s a controversial question but anyway, have you a desire to experience a pregnancy as a separate process, as a mission that each woman should live through?
Or you’ll accept the possibility to have a child via other surrogate woman’s participation?
burkeee, HOW really can it be useful? To know how much other people suffered on the way to their parenting? How devastated they felt on their way? Those women who are awaiting their babies to come soon, should get ready for mothering, read books, visit counselling, communicate with friends - but not waste their time writing tons of useless information that is more destroying than creative
Ok, if to discourse of your way, you think that people need to read only about primitive stories with predictable happy-ending? What about autobiography? Many famous authors published their life-stories and they are not always pleasant, but still people read them. And, yes, I reveal a secret to you that people like to read about suffers and despair, not all, of course, but every product has its own consumer.
There will always be people who will be interested in this "infertility" topic and will be ready to buy it!
Regarding the utility of such diaries, the person who read it always tries to find some similarity with their own problem, advices how to overcome the fears and disease. I think these books are not about suffering but about coping with it.
thank you for your point of view - that's actually what I wanted to know and why I started this discussion. So, you think it's about sharing experience and helping others to cope. I've a question - why then these women want other women to pay money for sharing experience? is there anything about help and being useful then?
Maybe it will sound rude, but I’m starting to think that you don’t have enough money, or maybe you’re envious about how people can “make money from the dust” (citation of Bloo33). Maybe you should write your own book about moral principles concerning fertility problems and name it “Public or private, what do you choose”?? or the same title as your post.
great idea! Thanks. I'm sure one day I will. But I'll def not sell it for money, coz it's not the way money should be earned. But it seems to meet that moral principles have so little to deal with those women who dare posting such things and publishing such books
As for someone’s money we needn’t to put our noses into this. absolutely strangers’ business. You have a choice to pay for their offers or read their notes on the internet, or do nothing.
Turning to the sentence about our "modernity" – we all try to earn the money from the dust.
I think the women who’ve undergone through their own terrible experience don’t sell the dust. Their story is a reflection of the power.
“I think the women who’ve undergone through their own terrible experience DO NOT SELL THE DUST.” – to your attention, dear. I don’t intend to listen to it. Actually I respect your ability to keep on the struggle and demand the same attitude to myself. Diagnosis is a personal burden we have to carry. We live with it.
I make my money from the own successful business which isn’t associated with the literature.
I agree that it's not right to do so! there are different reasons for this. the first one that almost nobody cares about experience of other people. the next reason is that it's personal info and it must stay so till the end. the 3rd reason is that making money by publishing your uterus adventures is wrong. imho
at least one person here who agrees with me, so I'm not alone in this world. truly speaking, all those uterus adventures irritate me so much and what's even worse - the number of such stories is growing like mushrooms after the rain. the world is going crazy. This is the intimate story of how your baby saw this world, how can you share it with people who you don't know and never will?
I've similar ideas on sharing photos of your unborn child, I mean ultrasound pics and videos, and what even worse - photos of embryos? Is it really ethical, you think? These cells will develop into human beings like every of us with his or her own thoughts and beliefs. Have you asked him does he really want these photos to be shared on Facebook or forums? (QUESTION TO EVERYONE HERE)
yeah it's a bit weird to me that no one else here thinks the same. but everybody thinks it's alright to support everyone who has problems and no matter what you think about a situation the person is in. I think it's just our modern times make us forget about personal, private and sacral things.
oh I would like to share your opinion about photos as well. I'm sure that only parents can look at those pictures, only they can think that their baby is beautiful when child is equal to a pea or a light spot. Those who find this amusing give parents over-support and it's far from real. Imagine yourself showing ultrasound pics to your colleagues, neighbors, strangers in a bus. Weird, yea?
very weird, not right, unethical. ultrasound diagnostic was designed for other purpose, after all. def not to make photos for parents to post on facebook.
same with IVF - it was not designed to be interpreted as a JOURNEY (hate this world). it's a medical treatment designed to help fight infertility, not to make public fuss over it and get more likes or money IMO
yes, it would be weird to see scan pics of liver or kidneys in a newsfeed somewhere on Facebook, right? so why do they share these pics of their sweet babies here? it remains a secret for me.
haha, right. that's why I used adventure word instead of this to highlight its inappropriate usage in the context. crazy world, you are right
Well, in my opinion it's a great idea, to share one's experience. When I was going through all this ivf thing I felt I needed someone's advice and I didn't join communities and groups. It was hard time with no one near who faced infertility. all my friends were mothers, one of them even had a grandson. so if I saw a diary of "ivf/eggdonation/surrogacy journey " I would buy it for sure. there are many free sources you can use however, but when you can see the whole story at once and to feel for the author then you can feel relief and kind of catharsis in the end. I personally have read the diary of the kind and it was very very useful for me. And regarding money, well...author spend time and money writing and publishing the diary, why it must be free?
yes, i will buy some. and yeas I've read one. you see, when I was looking for a clinic to continue IVF treatment, i tried to collect information about it and its clients. i was lucky enough to find a woman who wrote her own diary where she expressed her feelings during her journey. she was also with the same clinic, so you should understand it was very useful to me and still is. She has her book on amazon. I see only positive sides.
I'm not sure if it's allowed to share links, but I'll try. The author is Bianca Smith. She is now going through surrogacy program in biotex clinic. this book is extremely useful..at least to me.
Ok, I followed the link you provided. This is another book you can't upload for free. I'm not ready to get it for money, so maybe you'll tell me of her experience in a few words. Maybe this biotex clinic also provide egg donation services? This is what I need to know, and of her experience in surrogacy journey. thanks
hello again! as I've mentioned before I had a miscarriage and now I'm trying to cope with it. In a nutshell, I've just received an advice to read a book called "Grieving the Child I Never Knew: A Devotional for Comfort in the Loss of Your Unborn or Newly Born Child". Well, I looked through reviews and they all are so warm and encouraging that I can't help but buy it. And you know what? I think it's amazing idea to publish such books. Maybe you just need to read something like this and your opinion may become different.
i'm sorry for your miscarriage, Petricker. I hope you'll still get a chance for happy mothering.
I'm sorry if I sounded rude. I really didn't mean too. I was in terrible mood recently, and I think it's obviously much deeper than it can seem from my posts.
That's okay it's your right to have different point of view, but if you changed it then it's even better. You know, older I get, the more i realize that deferring to someone's opinion is very important. If your principles are always the same and you can't change them because you are sure they are unique and only possible, then your life won't change...you will be the same as well.
I think you should get your thoughts off your chest. just leave them here and you'll be better for sure. maybe it works not at once, but when dozens of ladies feel for you and are ready to support you whatever issues you've faced, then you'll feel relief.
Too often we keep everything bottled up because we afraid of everything. we are sure no one cares or others will blame us. not this time. infertility is not the thing to keep to yourself. Share!x
maybe you're right, maybe not. I doubt that sharing my infertility struggle story will change anything in my life, but probably it may change my attitude and help me decide for the next step.
Ok, I'll get some time and write a story about my struggles here
Don’t know how to relate to this. from one side someone can read and pay for such kind of fiction, from other side I can’t imagine I’d be writing a book about my life’s misfortunes to sell it on the NET.
What do they have on their mind?
I’d never buy this stuff we even can't know for sure it’s a male writing such IVF diaries.
the thing is it's not fiction, it's real life. I'm talking about real fertility journeys books here. The real stories of new lives.
Some of you sound quite persuading that it may really be helpful to someone with similar problems, but still not persuading enough to make me change my mind. Again - not for money, it def
I’m highly sure that 5 such books can’t replace the usefulness of one complete appointment and consultation with a doctor. What may we find from these books? I'm inclined to think that this is only subjective views on personal situation.
Will I have a desire to spend my day reading such a literature? Phhh afraid I’ll not.
that's exactly what I mean - all you can get from such books is be poured with all the pain and despair this person had to come from. Why do people still think that reading forums, blogs, books may somehow help them treat their infertility? That's nonsense. Your doc is the only one who can really help
I think the same. Someone could understand us incorrectly because it seemed we were against that people share their stories full of pain. Certainly I know someone needs to be heard and supported, needs to get understanding from others. I was resented by the fact people wanted to make money from announcing of human misfortune.
Why not? How many ways to express your feelings do you know? Sometimes the heavy load of understatement lay at the bottom of your soul and it tortures.
We actually can focus on the creative act itself without looking at the commercial side of this issue.
Even if we don’t consider the possible help which can be extracted from the book it merely may be personal try to make the life easier.
it was one more 2ww and I was literary going crazy. I just don't know why. I'm sick and tired of tcc and chasing for these mystical two lines. Not a single time in my life I could see. and now again - same thing every time. It was my second ivf and I got the negative.
I'm sorry if my words sounded rude. I just didn't know why I was getting so envious.
maybe you were right and all that stuff makes sense - it's easier to survive when you feel support from others, no matter from your close people or from the people you don't even know
Oh, sorry, I’ve missed your touching response. Dear! I have to delete my comment it was also pretty rude. I didn’t want to insult anyone, and you in particular.
We all live through tough times. Will it be the light in the end of this dark tunnel or not anyway we all need a support!
People, you are so mean! The person only wants to know your opinion but not the accusations. I totally agree with Katt_bee. It is too much when people share their photos and scans. The babies are even not born yet!! Why do they do that? There are so many people with evil eyes...it's inappropriate to show that for public. I can understand when they just share with their joy in written form, but photos of your organs and embryo are awful.
couldn't agree more! hopefully, there is at least someone who understands me here. I used to think that I'm the only one in this crazy world.
Of course, it's a choice of every individual, every mom and dad, but please let's stay reasonable and think of our children future. Try to guess what would be his reaction to all those US photos and "fertility journey" books. Just think of it and get the right answer to yourself
well, people can do with their lives anything they want. why is it a problem? I do not understand at all. I know a lot of couples that would've been very grateful if they had a thing to read before they started their treatment. now as we live in this era of technology and easy access to everything I feel like our own blogs are much like those books with the only difference - we do not sell them. well, at leats yet. plus most of those books are self0funded by the writers and they are not made to make money in the first place, I think those women who share their stories this way want only one thing - to help others, I am sure they realize that there are other people who struggle as they were struggling before if not even more.
yes, okay, the information is very personal. but it is your choice whether to share it with others or not. that's it I think.
PS what if not everyone is keen of forums but likes more to find the information in the old-fashioned way? for example, some publish books touching such topics as the perfect clinics and such stuff. imagine how many women here are asking the same question? everyone here has pretty much the same goal. I know at least one book where a woman describes her voyage to the clinic and her fertility issues overall, she talks about those private things but isn't it helpful? just to see that someone has managed to deal with something like this, doesn't it give you hope?
you sound very convincing, but there are some things I can't agree with. as first "well, people can do with their lives anything they want". sorry, but not. it's not 100% like this. yes, you can do whatever you want until your actions start to be annoying to someone else. this is where your freedom to do whatever you want ends.
but you are right that each of us takes our own decision of what to consider personal/public.
it seems here my opinion is different from the majority of people here
but this is ok. It was really very interesting to know your points of view
annoying? of course we should not do harm to each other but if someone's actions are annoying to you just by their own existence you should go somewhere else. if this whole publishing thing is annoying to you and that's why you are starting this fuss I have nothing to say to you... it is their freedom to publish their intimate details and get money from these at least they can compensate some amount of money they've spent on tx.
Few days have passed and I want to know what the conclusion we achieved? There were lots of discussions and we could notice different views but what do you think as the post author? Did you get answers? Really curiously, no place for ironic
Blooo33, thanks for asking and caring. This really means a lot for me. These last couple of days were very tough for me and my family. So many thoughts were running through my head, and emotions overwhelmed. not very pleasant emotions, I must admit.
This conversation and your answers mean a lot, so thank you.
It seems I got myself into a corner and couldn't get out.
You all are right and I've heard all your ideas
I feel better now. It seems I started this thread just to conceal more serious problems that I'm running through now
It’s proudly to know. But you’re saying in too hidden way. When will the time for openness come? I suppose it’s not bad occasion to create a new post. This one was comparatively popular.
a new post? it might be a good option for me now. it's like a blank page for me now, ending and starting point in the meantime. I got another one bfn and even though I'm very upset and disappointed, I feel so much more comforted now than at the time I was writing my initial post here. I've looked through this forum and you all seem so supportive to each other. Maybe this is what I was missing in my ttc failures
Hold on, Hun! Bad emotions are bad advisers. Don’t let them run your way. All you live through will turn to your experience and knowledge one day. Sometimes we lose and suffer to be strong and wise in a future. Because being strong and wise we’d be able to help people.
I really don’t know what kind of human would live in my skin if I didn’t experience my true life with all its misfortunes and disappointments.
I don't know what shall we do next. I'm sick and tired of this TTC game, of waiting and hoping - and then seeing all your dreams vanishing. Maybe we'll take a time out. Just a time to forget about our problems and enjoy life as it is. When I get my mind free of all this disappointments and failures, I will think of the next step. Our Doc suggests egg donation treatment, but I will very badly about it. this is not the way I would like my baby to emerge
Most of us face a such problem. We think it depends on our littered mind, unmade decisions and other factors. We assume we clean our head and it ‘will go right way.
But in fact we have to be in constant activity to reach something.
Our fate is really made by our hands. When you face your problem don’t be afraid and don’t miss a thing, hit it and do something! We are with you and wish you be glad after all.
I agree to most of the posts here - sharing our experience is what we all are here for. this is what we really need and this is what really helps. fertility treatment is not a thing each of us faces every day like washing dishes and brushing your teeth. I willingly share most significant details of our surrogacy journey and I see nothing wrong with it.
if you don't like fertility talks, why for you joined this community?
My questions were left with no response. I can conclude the author had mood changed and comprehended her mindflow. Because the things are as you said we’re here to share or to read someone’s experience in text. Thinking about she doesn’t visit this page anymore I suppose she hasn’t put the significant meaning into her post.
I’m afraid I was in the wrong. It’s entirely your affair to be joined or not. I spoke ironically and had no right to critique you. Excuse me for that if you may. I know you are on this forum because have your own story to share. Of course don’t haste if you aren’t ready yet.
But be aware we will not turn our back on you in case you need to be heard.
Your double response makes my understanding better. You should have a support, we all need it.
What exactly the support is? We use this exhausted word to describe different things, is love a support? Or is my comment a support? Or couples with children outside is a real support, because watching them you are motivated to wake up and do something.
Yeah. It’s time to post a new story. I hope you’ll find your answers.
I've read books. I've read Zita West's Guide to getting pregnant - in those early days when I just thought I wasn't timing it right with sex; but it's happen one day.
I've ready Zita Wests guide to IVF. Which had personal stories in it of others and how they coped or what their journey was like. I could draw parallels and notice that busy lives and not looking after yourself wasn't great during ivf.
I've read Having your baby through egg donation. The book I never thought I'd read. I'm stuck at the chapter "you're pregnant" - I daren't read past there. I've read so many women's and couples tales of how they coped through it all.
I've read google through tears most hours of the day and night. Searching for someone who feels my pain.
I've read this forum. I love this forum.
I've watch tv programmes. Alex from BBC One Show did a documentary on fertility. It was amazing. She may have got paid. And if she did I don't care. There is too much taboo around fertility. Women do not prepare themselves or are aware at young ages it might not be so simple. This country does not readily talk about it. So women who experience it share to help others. Some books actually state that those writing donate to donor conception network or infertility research.
How is it any different to someone who is living with a heart condition or diabetes sharing their story? x
Rasteny, yes, you're right - I'm definitely from group 2 so some things really used to irritate me. But it seems that this all was so superficial. It was not actually what bothered me most of all.
Hello! I just read your post. It's a good question, with some but ...
Indeed it is a personal stuff, but as you logged here, your reason was? Of course to share with others... To say your own story. To give and receive advices.
And I guess there is nothing wrong to publish a book about it. Either you comment here or read others stories. Either you publish a book with topics related to the subject. There is nothing wrong to do that. The most important is to share real stories. Ppl like to read once they have a problem. Each one of us, once we have problems, we are searching solution everywhere.
The truth is that what seems like a simple question as you think more becomes deeper ...
I understand above all the discomfort that can be generated by the fact that there are people who actually MAKE money sharing their own stories on this topic. Totally. This is what most confuse especially when for each of the people that we deal with this we feel it as something so personal. People who seemed to be pragmatic unsympathetic able to sell even their most intimate privacy in exchange for silver. But I have realized that he does not stay in this.
As for other texts offered in mass of subjects related to sexual experiences, genetic conditions and morbid diseases, so it is with the whole subject of the infertility. It is true that it is a topic of interest for controversy above all, but it is useful for many things. There are many people (I can include a lot) for which to talk about their problems to conceive is very uncomfortable, so there are so many forums on the internet dedicated to downloading the weight of these issues. A book has a similar effect. A book is a medium, it is the window that is more personal and impersonal at the same time. In a book one can explore, inquire, experience and feel the questions that haunt him or her being his interlocutor a close but absent subject, so it is ruled out any possibility of discomfort for the person who is full of doubts and goes to the book trying to understand .
Returning to the core of the enigma, I think there should be no problem of being public, provided it is duly regulated and has a social reason. By the same as I mentioned, it is a type of material that is logical that I disturbed many people, especially when it is being presented everywhere, but there are the same number of people to whom it is completely useful contents like these. It's like self-help books (by the way I do not like them very much). This people who get a blessing in these texts are the ones that make more continue to produce but happens because this are people who really need these books.
So beyond whether it is moral or whether it should be allowed or not, I think it should be to the perception of each who and what each one of these books means.
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it's your right to have different point of view, but if you changed it then it's even better. You know, older I get, the more i realize that deferring to someone's opinion is very important. If your principles are always the same and you can't change them because you are sure they are unique and only possible, then your life won't change...you will be the same as well. 
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