Healthy Eating
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Keto

Hi,

I’m new here. I'm in a war against any and all processed sugar and even most carbs leaving me in ketosis. Anyone have any good or bad scientific facts about this diet? I've heard a lot of the hearsay and people that are against the diet. I guess, I'm looking for first hand experience and not just thoughts.

Let the hate pour in, but keep it to a minimum if you haven't tried it and have zero proof.

I'm going on 5 months keto and lost 43 pounds to date while gaining muscle. I have blood tests due very soon so that might interest a few on here maybe?! I'm both excited and scared at the same time for these tests.

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i dont have any knowledge on the diet your are on, but thought i would wish you good luck with your tests. and to say that your doing really well with what you are on.☺

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Thank you👊 it's a life changing decision for sure. 75% fat 5% carbs 20% protein 1500 cals is what it boils down to. All carbs come from fresh veggies

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that seems have been a very good life changing decision for you and to lose so much weight is fantastic ☺

just out of interest i will read up on the Keto diet.

am sure your going to be very happy with your blood results so dont worry ☺

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2500 calories sorry

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First of all, congratulations on your success. what a co-incidence I have been following KETO for the last 5 - 6 months.

I have been following very low-carb.( 25 gm + - 5 gm max.) diet to resolve my blood sugar issue. Here are the results after three months on ketogenic diet:

1. HAPPINESS INDEX SCORE: Rose from 5/10 to 8/10.

2. PEAK AFTER-MEAL BS: Reduced from 12.5 to 7.5 max.

3. FASTING BS: Reduced from 6.7 to 5.8 Though this one varies.

4. HBA1C: Reduced from 47 to 36.

5. BODY WEIGHT: Reduced from 79 kg to 66 kg.

6. ANY MEDICATION?: NO

7. OVERALL STABILITY: Few weeks in the beginning were indeed hard particularly because it was an extreme change for me - from 60% carb to 5% carb. But at the end I have a very stable feeling. No hunger pangs every two/three hours unlike in the past.

I must add that everybody is different and therefore we need to assess suitability of any particular diet based on how our system responds. My experience has been very positive.

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Thank you and I see all those good things also, I also noticed zero tiredness through the day. I also incorporated a 20/4 fast with it 2 weeks ago and feel no hunger until the 18 hour mark

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I'm kinda worried about my cholesterol

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Oh and the bloated feeling was gone the first week!! 😃 best part I think lol

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You don't need to worry about your cholesterol - almost everyone on low-carb diets sees a dramatic improvement in their blood lipid profile, viz., reduced triglycerides, HDL up, LDL down. The NHS absolutely HATE this, because it falsifies their 'dietary fat causes heart disease' hypothesis.

Only one thing to be aware of: if you were significantly overweight and you're losing weight rapidly, your total cholesterol may be slightly high for a while. This is a transient effect that will level out in due course. Don't let the doctor scare you into stopping the diet - he's probably not even aware of the explanation, which was only discovered a few years ago: small amounts of cholesterol are stored along with fatty acids when people become obese, and as you lose the fat, that stored cholesterol is freed up at the same time.

In other words, blood tests should be taken with a grain of salt while you're losing weight. It's a bit like measuring your fuel consumption with your foot on the gas pedal - the number isn't wrong as such, it's just not very useful.

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My doctor is still wet behind the ears, I think he's in his 20s😬 I'm thinking he might have some knowledge with the keto diet. I didn't even want to ask him about the diet, I figured I'd get 6 months out of the way first 😁and roughly 2-3 pounds a week is what I'm losing.

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Combining intermittent fasting (IF) with KETO is a great way to lose weight - perhaps the most efficient way.

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That's great to hear, I feel really good about it so far, I think I'm going to come down 20 more pounds and then switch over to the wild diet (Paleo) and try to maintain with a little fruit in my diet lol mmmm I miss fruit

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If that don't work then I'm more then happy to live keto as long as I'm healthy on it 👍

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Yes, KETO can be a lifestyle for many. May be you can add few more gms of carbs ( total Carbs < 50 gms to be in nutritional ketosis).

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I'll experiment a little when I get some more blood strips

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Preveen55, good to see you hare good advice for Bucherker4. The Keto diet is wonderderful both my husband and myself are on it. Myself more modified, I'm very thin and do not need to dop weight great for seizure control and b;oodd sugar control Type 1. He has been on it for 3 years and lst 70lbs and maintains that today does IF LF at times. Has great muscles build up through work outs and we are no spring chickens! When eating carb's for myself they are always healthy and take that into shopping. I highly recommend this and fantastic job, he has had wonderful blood testing over the past 3 years, even improved.

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Thank you cherv. Good to know you and your husband are doing so well. How did your vegan preparation go? You may have become an expert by now!

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Doing great with a lot more Vegan recipes and stir fries, have done a lot of experimenting. Gaining some weight which I needed hubby it has not effected due to his IF a LF routines at times and he mataines a lower carb. load.

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I'm pretty sensitive tho

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What problems did you have? Yeah if you don't mind my asking?

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Congratulations on your success so far.

I am just about to embark on your journey but as I have been diabetic for 21 years my diabetic nurse does not know how my body will react to the diet. There are concerns that a type 2 long term diabetic's pancreas may not produce enough insulin to support a keto diet and they could go into ketoacidosis. I am therefore quite concerned about what might happen and I need to monitor blood sugar and ketones closely.

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You will be fine. It will improve your diabetes. With respect, anyone who thinks this diet might result in ketoacidosis doesn’t understand the metabolism. It is a COMPLETELY different thing. Google dr david unwin or any of the many doctors who are now curing (yes, curing!) T2 diabetics.

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I know ketosis is not the same as DKA. However Diabetes UK states "DKA is most commonly associated with type 1 diabetes, however, people with type 2 diabetes that produce very little of their own insulin may also be affected." After having diabetes for 21 years, it is unknown how much insulin I produce and that is where the worry lies!

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I'm no expert but the foods consumed on a keto diet don't trigger insulin much at all, hence the weight loss. Wouldn't that be good for someone that don't produce much insulin? I’m not a professional, but it makes sense to me.

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Think I would rather believe Diabetes UK!

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I don't blame you Alfred, gotta ask yourself why they would tell you spike your insulin 6 times a day and then sell you the insulin to control those spikes tho? My old man is experimenting with this right now. I'll let you know how he makes out. He isn't insulin dependent yet but he's trying these "outlaw" doctors theories out for sure. 😁

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alfred, losing weight - however it is done - reduces diabetes and there is plenty of research to show that.

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Be careful Alfred

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alfredsmith

When you are on diabetic medications, you have to be extra vigilant while following LCHF/KETO as blood glucose level can go too low in which case you should reduce the medicine doses. Keep your Nurse/Doctor informed of the conditions. Once KETO/LCHF adapted ( may be two to three weeks), you will be fine. It is a great way to manage Type 2 diabetes. I do not know what are your numbers but many people on such diets are off medicines or on much reduced doses depending on individual's conditions.

You can do it at your own pace gradually reducing carbs from your meals. Idea is to consume only that much carb which your system can cope with. Keep monitoring your BS.

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How have you gained muscle while losing 43 pounds?

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Lifting weights and doing squats. I'm in a camp working so I don't have much but I do have weights.

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Let me clarify that I have not checked my fat percentage but I gained 40 pounds in a little over a year, I was about 20 pounds overweight with that fat spread out everywhere. The new 40 pounds was all on my torso. My arms and legs are pretty lean, I believe the last 20 I want to lose is all on my torso. 😔 my arms and legs are bigger then ever, that is the only reason I believe I gained muscle.

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Sounds like you have found the key to your healthier lifestyle, I’m unfamiliar with the Keto diet but have heard it takes around 6 months for a diet to become a normal way of life, even if the diet is not forever losing 43 pounds is empowering and must make it easier to keep fit thus keeping weight of in the future if you decide to reintroduce some of the other food groups, exciting times shopping for a new summer wardrobe 😎

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👍

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Buncherkev4, the short term results are good about keto. That is people reliably lose weight and have associated health benefits. The long term results are not there for keto per se. However there is solid research connecting high fat with atherosclerosis, heart attacks and more. The problem with heart attacks is people can feel well right until the moment it happens. Sorry if that sounds like a kill-joy, but that's what the research consistently shows. If you want links or more info let me know.

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I've read a lot of bad things for sure but I've found so many docs that say the total opposite, thanks this is the info I'm looking for 👍

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Hi Hidden,

I just saw this article about the Low Carb/High Fat diet - and I've not read it, so I don't know whether it is helpful to you or not, but I have found Healthline's articles to be quite helpful from an evidence based perspective, so hope it might be interesting to you:

healthline.com/nutrition/lc...

Zest :-)

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Thank you

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"However there is solid research connecting high fat with atherosclerosis, heart attacks and more. "

Would you please explain? If that had been the case, then we would have reduced the incidence of atherosclerosis related mortality and morbidity by low/zero fat diet and statins.

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Don't take my word for it. Just read the British Heart Foundation's take on the subject bhf.org.uk/heart-health/con...

Or perhaps read the American Heart Association's take on the subject heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditio...

A keto diet will help reduce weight and because of that weight loss risk of diabetes is reduced. So that is good news. Being overweight is linked to a lot of chronic illness so anything that reduces weight has to be considered.

But one of the other risks of a high fat diet such as keto is high cholesterol. My understanding is high cholesterol has a clear correlation with atherosclerosis (whereas other risks are more "contributory"). So the question I would ask is does a keto diet in your body bring down cholesterol levels, or raise them?

Assuming you don't smoke, I am not saying don't do keto, but definitely get your cholesterol checked occasionally. If your cholesterol is high then I would think about other options.

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The are many who are not overweigh but diabetic. Keto will help them too. Cholesterol 95% is produced by our liver in response to the amount of inflammation. So older we become higher is the cholesterol level.

Well in a D people it's the high bg that generates lots of ros and inflammation. Once bg comes down the inflammation too abates. This brings down cholesterol.

And the fats we are talking about are healthy and not transfats. Co has high amount of lauric acid - a mct which gets absorbed via portal vein and burnt in the liver and can't be stored like lcts which require chylomicrons to get absorbed and bypass the liver to the systemic circulation and picked up to be stored. It's high carbs which are converted to lcts / fats in the presence of insulin. High fat diet elicit very poor insulin response so fats cuts body fat by low insulin. Atherosclerosis yes but they are the result of inflammatory insults to the vessel walls caused by ros generated by high carbs.

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>> My understanding is high cholesterol has a clear correlation with atherosclerosis

There is no correlation. None at all. There isn't even a very good correlation with LDL (the establishment's preferred metric).

The most reliable predictor at the moment is your HDL:triglyceride ratio. This ratio is improved by LCHF.

Simple explanation here:

verywellfit.com/low-carb-di...

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Hi TheAwfulToad, the verywellfit link you provide relies on papers dated upto 2005. Looking at a 2012 2state of the art" cardiology paper at sciencedirect sciencedirect.com/science/a... which I think is relevant to your link, "Unfortunately, low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and high-density lipoprotein (HDL) particle number and size, other lipoprotein subfractionation, apolipoproteins B and A, and lipoprotein(a) have not yet met current standards for biomarker evaluation, and it remains to be determined whether these tests incrementally add to cardiovascular risk predicted by traditional risk factors."

The paper concludes, "In contrast, a large body of evidence supports focusing on LDL cholesterol reduction and intensification of statin therapy to reduce cardiovascular risk."

That's not to say I am a fan of statin therapy, but I think - at best - the jury is definitely out on relevance of cholesterol particle size. Of course a WHPB lifestyle diet will reduce LDL cholesterol in someone who previously has high LDL - since plants contain no LDL.

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andyswarbs : There is a logical contradiction in that quote:

- cholesterol subfractions have no predictive value for CVD.

- therefore cholesterol or associated lipoproteins cannot be the proximate CAUSE of CVD.

- therefore there is absolutely NO justification for 'intensification' of statin therapy.

And even if there were a justification, one would have to ask: why is it that a majority of the population have a disease that makes them dependent on an extremely new invention? How did we ever even survive as a species without those miraculous statins?

Anyway, my aim there was simply to post something (a) nontechnical and (b) that answers the question from the point of view of LCHF detractors (ie., those who complain that LCHF adversely affects the markers that they believe are important).

Statins quite clearly don't work. The NHS has dosed up half the population on statins and they have had NO impact whatsoever on CVD. Even the pharmaceutical companies suggest that they are contraindicated for women or for young people - so why does the gov't think they know better?

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suaramo, I am not sure your conclusion about statins and/or low-zero fat diets follows. Statins are effective in what they do, but people have to take statins in the first place. A heart attacks is often the first sign of problem and sadly sometimes that is fatal.

Zero/Low-fat diets - well I am not sure what you are referring to there. For some people low fat means choosing low-fat milk/yoghurt and/or oil sprays for cooking. The kind of diet that I follow takes a very different approach. It is more about removal of processed / refined fats.

So coconut oil is excluded despite its health claims, for example. Whereas the oil consumed by eating a normal coconut would be welcomed. Perhaps a more sensible example though are avocados, nuts and seeds. These are all in, though in limited amounts especially when trying to lose weight.

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Zero low fat diet that the ada ama aha recommend to avoid heart attacks. Statins and such recommendations have not prevented nor reduced the incidences of mi. Statins have many adverse effects.

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andyswarbs

Please read the summary of the findings through the link below which demonstrates that high carbohydrate intake is the main cause of mortality and not the total fat or even the saturated fat. This study is based on over 5000 people.

thelancet.com/journals/lanc...

Plant based approach will also work for some people and so will LCHF.

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Good info👊

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This PURE study has proved controversial. If I can refer you to hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions... it concludes "this study is fraught with methodological problems—especially confounding by different degrees of socio-economical development in different countries and questionable dietary intake data."

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Interesting

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Another critiques of the PURE study can be read at pcrm.org/media/news/pure-st... This is a complete demolition job by Hana Kahleova of the PCRM a total plant-based organisation.

I point this out because I want to pick up on its last argument against the validity of the PURE study,

"A one-time survey was used to measure what people ate…for the next seven years. Diets are rapidly changing around the world. It seems unlikely that a single questionnaire accurately captured what people ate, year after year. Yet that’s the only way researchers measured people’s diets."

If I look at my own diet, just over 2 years ago had ice cream, puddings, copious cheeses, alcohol, croissant, soy, you name it, if it was vegetarian I had it. I didn't worry about processed / refined foods very much, yes I had some whole-foods but I did not worry about proportions. Oh, and I cooked with oils.

Now just two years later 99.99% of what I eat is a whole food, it is plant based and there are no refined oils. And my alcohol intake is about a small glass a month.

Finaly let us compare the design of the PURE study with the design of Oxford EPIC study epic-oxford.org/. As a volunteer I know the Oxford EPIC study well because every year my wife and myself completed independent multi-page booklets analysing weight, exercise, diet etc etc. All over over a 10 year period I think.

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Thanks, andyswarbs.

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andyswarbs : it's a bit more complicated than that. A high-fat high-carb diet is indeed associated with increased risk of heart disease. A high-fat low-carb diet is associated with a slightly decreased risk of heart disease (the vast majority of heart disease is either idiopathic, congenital, or associated with inactivity - diet is a relatively minor factor).

The biochemistry behind this is well-understood. Don't just look at the statistics without knowing how to interpret them.

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Are you referring to fluffy cholesterol theory? I won't repeat the challenge I posted elsewhere to avoid duplication but if so then your claim of it being well understood means it is far from an accepted theory.

I tried to follow this through on mercola, thinking there would be some links to research showing longevity and heart disease. Instead I went round in circles on the mercola website looking through his sources. Do you know of, or can find on mercola any research links showing HFLC association with decreased heart disease (of any type.)

I am not talking about explaining the theory here. I am talking about evidence. From my side I can show anecdotal evidence that disproves cholesterol claims. I think Mic. The Vegan covered this at least in one of his cholesterol videos.

But before providing evidence I need to know exactly what biochemical story you are talking about, in case I have misunderstood.

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Nothing to do with 'fluffy cholesterol' or any other sort of cholesterol. Cholesterol appears to have nothing whatsoever to do with heart disease. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the most reliable predictor for CVD is inactivity. In other words: use it or lose it. Your heart and your vascular system isn't just a set of passive plumbing. If you don't give it something to do then it gets weak and fails.

However, as far as diet is a contributory factor, the 'official' hypothesis is that saturated fats in the diet cause an increase in LDL and that this somehow (mechanism unspecified) causes arteries to fur up with cholesterol.

It turns out that yes, people with CVD do tend to have a lot of circulating saturated fats ... because they've been synthesized from excess carbohydrates. It's possible to know this for sure because your body can only create a certain limited range of fatty acids from glucose, so by determining exactly WHICH f.a.'s are circulating, one can take a good guess at their source. And why are they in the bloodstream? Because a body eating lots of carbs is insulin-resistant. They have nowhere to go. An inactive, insulin-resistant body is in big trouble.

People eating high-fat and high-carb diets simply compound the problem. Hence the advice to eat low-fat IF you want to eat high-carb. Which is probably correct as far as it goes, but it's like putting a band-aid on a compound fracture. Eating a low-fat high-carb diet reduces your CVD risk by a miniscule amount compared to a high-fat high-carb diet. The Nurses Health Study found no effect at all, although that study was mostly (all?) women: women have very different patterns of CVD compared to men.

If you eat a high-fat LOW-carb diet then circulating triglycerides FALL. In fact saturated fats are burned preferentially (which is counterintuitive since you would expect them to be less reactive, but that is what happens). The reason is obvious - your body has to burn them for energy, because it doesn't have anything else to burn.

To be clear: on the average, the saturated fatty acids circulating in your blood are not correlated with the saturated fatty acids in your diet.

Now here's the interesting bit. Atherosclerosis is a made-up disease. Yes it happens, but it's not a disease. Almost everyone on the planet has atherosclerosis. You have atherosclerosis. Young kids have atherosclerosis. This is why the government believes everyone is ill and everyone should be on statins. In reality it's a perfectly normal process, a sort of duct-taping at high-stress points in your arteries. Various odd things have to happen to make it pathological: for example it must progress to the point of stenosis, or it must cause blood clots. But plenty of people live long and healthy lives with quite advanced atherosclerosis. This, it seems to me, is where exercise becomes important: if the muscles in your heart and your arteries (you do realise you have muscles in your vascular system?) are working properly, then they do their jobs properly, and it may also be that the physical nature of arterial plaques are different in active people - for example they may be mechanically different in such a way that they don't precipitate clotting.

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Hidden,

I will be sending a message to you soon. Please check your private messages when I say it’s been sent.

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I have sent a message right now, Hidden.

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Keto is a great way to get weight loss results. I did it for just over a year but was very irritable. I lost about 80 lbs and was happy with that but wasn't going to put my family through my irritability so I'm not following it anymore but do eat healthier than I did before keto.

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That's great, getting healthy is important

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Why would we hate you. You can eat whatever you want, just don't become Evangelical about it.

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I wasn't talking about hating me . Nobody knows me to hate me. I was referring to the evangelical people myself 😆 vegans/vegetarian/ketogenic all have totally opposite beliefs. I on the other hand am open to all thoughts

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There can be more than one dietary approach which can meet our requirements. And that is very good because we have more choices. One should follow whatever suits one's system best.

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Hey,

I've been very low carb for about ten years, and full on keto for about a year. Over that time I lost 50 lbs--now I actually struggle a little to keep weight ON.

It's an awesome diet for me. I am never hungry. I do not gorge on bacon. I do cook most of my own food, and I cook for my husband, who is not keto. We coexist peacefully. (He has also cut out almost all sugar though--we both agree that's poison) I simply don't find it all that difficult and I don't understand the fuss.

If you actually read the blogs of people who are doing it you'll see it does not cause a horrible cholesterol problem, despite what the ADA or AHA might say. Some people find their numbers improve! Some people do find their numbers go up. But there are things you can do. I have links if you are interested.

I have had high cholesterol since long before I started this diet (thanks, family genes) so I am careful to use mostly olive/avocado oil. Still I probably do consume more heavy cream and butter than most. I check my blood every 6 months. My numbers don't change...except my triglycerides went down.

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That's great, funny how the cream turns into a nice treat on this diet 😁

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I fully agree with you in all respect. What matters is the Triglyceride and HDL. On KETO/LCHF these numbers improve. Triglyceride goes down and HDL goes up.

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Oh, that is true. My HDL is through the roof. (130 last draw!) My LDL is high too, tho I had it fractionated--type "A" big, fluffy. Still, way too high (200). But it was too high 10yrs ago when I was a low-fat vegetarian fiend. It's me, I guess.

I am unconvinced that sat fat has anything to do with anything...but I don't tempt fate. I love olive oil, love avocado oil, and have no problem cooking almost exclusively with them. And using homemade nut milk in my coffee. I still eat grass-fed cream/butter/meat--just not with wild abandon. But I know plenty of keto people can!

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ha--one of my favorite treats is a handful of raspberries or blackberries (the only fruit I eat, and not frequently) covered in cream. So tasty!

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Me too, coffee, whipping cream,mtc or coconut oil and butter blended is like heaven in the morning! It tastes sweet to me

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Yep. I also make my own nut milk (which you can substitute if it turns out you have cholesterol problems). Quick: in the blender--handful pine nuts, handful hemp seeds, handful macadamias, hot water, let it sit for about 1/2 hour, blend until it turns into milk. You don't need to strain. It really works to make coffee rich! Sometimes I split it half/half w cream.

Also, do you use MCT oil? It's the important part of coconut oil, a good "cheat"--helps boost your levels of ketones. I blend that in too.

PS-- I do use splenda/stevia/erythritol here and there. I guess I am not willing to give up sweet tasting things forever. Just not. I've given up a lot, but not an occasional desire for a bit of "cake". Lots of keto recipes online!

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I do 2 bpc a day cream,mct and butter. I occasionally use organic coconut oil in place of mct because I like the flavour.

I don't use any sweater at all, I get 100% of my carbs from vegetables which leaves me room to indulge in a piece of fruit here and there 😁 stevia leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. I really don't miss sweets much at all. Tho I have been known to have a taste of ice cream or one of the kids treats here and there. I'm in a logging camp so the food I can consume is very limited but also readily available so I basically eat the same things everyday.

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hmm logging camp? interesting.

I wish I didn't miss sweets. I still want something after dinner sometimes. But we don't have anything like ice-cream in the house (unless I make it...and that's where the erythritol comes in!) But I have to say, my sweet tooth is NOTHING like it used to be. The amount of sweet I like is so little--when I take a taste of some conventionally-sweetened product now it tastes awful to me.

And I'm not even talking desserts. The absolute worst is bottled salad dressing. I can't stand it anymore. You almost can't find it in the grocery or restaurant where it doesn't taste like you are pouring syrup on your lettuce.

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I know what you mean about the dressings.

The camp thing was very inconvenient at first I thought it was going to be impossible. Once I found the zip lock bags of veggies and hard boiled eggs I was set. I work long hours so fasting is a breeze. The one problem I have is at dinner. Absolutely everything is carb based so I end up taking whatever meat they made that day, a huge salad no dressing my zip lock bags of veggies lol they think I'm nuts. It's a blessing tho in my eyes. Really Easy to fallow as long as I can stay away from all the pastries, cake and cookies.

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Excuse my grammar, I don't pay my editor 😜

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You should just ask for olive oil and lemon, or vinegar. That plus salt and pepper is pretty good. If you have access to a bottle and you shake up a heaping spoon of dijon mustard you can make a really nice dressing. Toss in a smashed garlic clove. :o)

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PS your writing is fine...you certainly get your point across!

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😁

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