Keto & Red Pill Vegan

[andyswarbs]

Red Pill Vegan is a youtuber I follow but don't watch much of since he has spent much of his time focusing on Keto for people who have had trouble with the diet. Well, today I watched what perhaps is one outcoe of that work with this video "Keto Diet Long Term Side Effects - Keto Community Response!"

youtube.com/watch?v=u4qWnSl...(Not working as expected?)

They key takeway seems to be how keto advocates deny the existence of long term research showing the long term disadvantages of keto and at the same time the lack of any meaningful demonstration of keto long term benefits, prefering to attack films like What The Health.

So for anyone here who advocates a keto style of living please start with the long term research showing good health outcomes of keto.

[Praveen55 Star]

andyswarbs

Thank you. You made me laugh by posting this video. So you consider this kind of video presentations give more authentic reports than the news reports by Daily Mail!

Is there any dietary recommendation to follow keto diet for general populations that you are aware of?

[andyswarbs in reply to Praveen55]

At least this guy puts the research papers on the video for people to check themselves. And that is the core of the video. This is a response video where a respected person in the keto community says he is going to provide evidence, and yet provides none.

Btw with the DailyMail I had to work to find the source research. My guess is many people would not have used their noddle and instead relied on the DM at face value.

What you may not know, is that the reason RPV has focused on this subject is because that is the community he comes from. So he has some authentic empathy and understanding of that community. AFAIK this is his speciality.

[Praveen55 Star in reply to andyswarbs]

Is there any recommendation to follow keto diet for general populations that we want to discuss about - good or bad? There is no point in discussing something which does not exist.

When it comes to food we should use our own intellect and experience and not look out for food industry to tell us what we should eat.

We should be aware of the damage that has been done to general populations worldwide by the dietary guidelines based on so called research/studies on large populations. The number of people suffering from metabolic disorders like overweight, obesity, T2D have been increasing steadily since the dietary guidelines were implemented around 1970's. On top of that, victims themselves are being blamed for this.

[benwl in reply to Praveen55]

The standard dietary guidelines are fine - what evidence do you have that they are the cause of the obesity crisis. Remember correlation is not causation. Lots of things have happened since 1970 that can explain it. And the research behind the guidelines isn't "so called research" its just research. Of course thats a just a standard tactic of the low carb community to try and deligitimize research or studies they disagree with.

[Praveen55 Star in reply to benwl]

Sorry, I was not aware there existed a low carb community who were responsible to defaming the dietary guidelines. What do you think - what can be the reason for such a rise in metabolic disorders?

[Cooper27]

I'm afraid the video seems to have been removed!

I have heard a few interviews with proponents of the keto diet, and they actually do tend to say that the diet isn't meant to be a lifestyle: essentially it's a short term thing that people should follow as a type of fast. Perhaps like adopting a 5:2 diet, but the 2 days are keto, instead of low calorie. This diet isn't too wrong by having people follow it for a short period, as that's what the diet was originally supposed to be.

Of course, there's a difference between just low carb and keto, so someone could follow a low carb diet longer term, and this wouldn't show the long term benefits/negatives of that.

[Praveen55 Star in reply to Cooper27]

To me it appears like making an issue out of nothing!

[andyswarbs in reply to Cooper27]

For some reason RPV has disabled viewing directly on HU or wherever. However clicking the link to watch directly on youtube works fine.

This keto advocate featured in the video is arguing that keto is safe in the long term, that's why I posted it - to focus on that exact question.

[Cooper27 in reply to andyswarbs]

I've realised I flipped between praveen's low carb post ( healthunlocked.com/healthye... ) and yours when I wrote that response, so it doesn't make complete sense! Think the heat is getting to me

I suppose my interpretation of keto, is that it's one of those situations where people think that a little bit is beneficial, and so a lot must be better. But the counter to that, is that the research looks at the effects of following the diet long term, which isn't what it's intended for.

[Brightfeather]

Thanks for this Andy

[jdine1969]

Kaiser, a large organization of hospitals in the USA is now recommending keto to their cancer patients because “the keto diet fights cancer.”

[andyswarbs in reply to jdine1969]

This may be true. When someone has cancer then they are often in a last ditch stand in their fight for life. This might be considered akin to the original studies on keto which saw improvements in children who had epilepsy. Keto was then advised, as a last ditch stand, when all other solutions had failed.

If I had cancer (and I hope I don't) I would look at absolutely anything to help fight that cancer. Right now I consume both turmeric & legumes every day partly for their very strong associative link with preventing cancer develop. But life has no guarantees and yes I might get cancer. In that case I would look at keto very earnestly if there was research showing that a keto diet (ideally plant based - and my guess is that KaiserP are advising a WFPB version of keto), especially if advised by my health provider. I would the do it under close medical supervision to make sure that the benefits outweighed the disadvantages.

So in extreme cases of ill-health there is no doubt keto could be considered.

Knowing what I now know, I will wonder to my dying breath whether my daughter who died in 2011 aged 24 from epilepsy whether a WFPB Keto diet might have helped her be alive today. No one ever mentioned how profound the effects of different diets might be on the body at the time & I was truly ignorant thinking my whole-food vegetarian diet was somehow healthy. Now I would give my vegetarian diet at the time a score of 5 out of 10 at best.

[Kai-- in reply to andyswarbs]

.

👍👍

Kaiser Permanente:

. . . • Ketogenic: healthy.kaiserpermanente.or...

. . . • Whole foods plant based: healthy.kaiserpermanente.or...

.

[Praveen55 Star in reply to andyswarbs]

andyswarbs

JOSLIN DIABETES CENTER, 1915.

Below are the details of the macros of low carb diet in keto range prescribed for a severely diabetic patient weighing 60 kg at Joslin Diabetic Center, in the year 1915:

Carbohydrate: 10 gm

Protein: 75 gm

Fat: 150 gm

Alcohol: 15 gm

Total energy: 1800 calories approx.

This is just to let you know that low carb approach is not a new fad diet when it comes to dealing with metabolic disorder like T2D. This is extremely low carb suggesting the patient's diabetes must have been really bad.

[BridgeGirl in reply to Praveen55]

Fascinating, Praveen 😊 Nothing new, indeed

[andyswarbs in reply to Praveen55]

Exactly. Another temporary solution for extreme circumstances. Thanks.