Normal bread vs GF bread: A dietician... - Gluten Free Guerr...

Gluten Free Guerrillas

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Normal bread vs GF bread

pretender
pretender

A dietician told me if you take the centre of a normal loaf and added a little water you can knead this into a ball,

I do not use or have GF bread so if you took the centre of a GF loaf and added a little water what would happen?

(Can you knead GF bread into a ball or does it like most GF foods turn to powder?)

28 Replies
oldestnewest

What kind of a question is this? lol.......What purpose are you looking for? :D

Must admit, Pretender, that I don't understand the point of your question? Can you elaborate?

Can you eat a normal loaf. Even a few crumbs has me so ill I am in bed for a day or so

pretender
pretender in reply to Mia1057

On Saturday 2nd March I ate some sweats containing wheat and gluten and still waiting for a reaction. Will be finishing the box of during this week.

Hidden
Hidden

What a strange question...........

pretender
pretender in reply to Hidden

The comparison is required to compare how normal bread might react in the gut compared to GF bread. If GF bread does the same as normal bread a comparison is made but if the GF bread does not perform the same as normal bread turning to powder, then I can understand possible villi damage sources. Not having GF bread I cannot resolve my question.

There is nothing strange about this question coming from a Dietician with 26 years experience and now runs the local support group.

There is a lot of hype about villi damage with many coeliac's, if you take one uncut normal loaf of bread, scoop out the soft centre and add a little water, knead it in your hands and you end up with a gooey moist lump, picture that in your stomach bashing around.....

If you take a GF uncut loaf and treated it the same way what would be the result? I do not use GF bread products so cannot try it for myself, also on limited income. Most GF products turn to powder when wet (in your mouth). Which is why I ask this question.

FionaGFG
FionaGFGAdministrator

Pretender - I'm sure you know full well that you asked a cryptic question. And the reason you got so many queries on it was because it wasn't clear. We welcome discussion here on HealthUnlocked GFGs but if you're tempted to ask cryptic questions please can you stop yourself from doing so. We put a lot of effort into this and our other channels as do the members of this forum. Wasting our and their time with vague questions isn't in the spirit of the site. If you had started with your comment above I am sure you would have gained far more interesting comments and insights. Please think before you type.

The question was very basic and a comparison of normal bread and GF bread as it would be in the gut, the answer would answer a question. Mailed you personally.

Hidden
Hidden

I have a feeling looking at posts that this may indeed be a "pretender" My thoughts only.

Not a pretender Roscoe, The reason being that the dietician gave this example as a reason for flattened villi, that is with normal bread.

Gluten in foods and beverages will affect a coeliac not just with flattening the villi but with other health issues, diarrhoea/constipation, bloating, gas/wind, etc.

Yesterday I bought a small Warburton sliced white GF/WF loaf the only ingredient from a gluten origin was Dextrose, I answered my question with two slices of bread and a little water, my opinion is that the dietician was wrong. However after two visits to the little room and a very grumbly stomach the Dextrose was a good laxative.

My curiosity is that I do not seem to have the same Coeliac Disease that members on here have so looking for answers.

hiya i use gf bread and wouldnt go back to other now have tried the test with gf bread and it does turn to powder tried it with other and that goes into a ball so must be right am going to my dietition today and are gonna ask that question gl

What bread did you use Barny, mine went the same as normal bread, a soggy ball. Warburtons Newburn bakehouse GF/WF sliced white was what I used.

Does this question relate to an illustration of the gluten content in wheat bread, and a comparison to the various gums used in gf bread?

I recall seeing a demo 'washing' a wheat dough to demonstrate that gluten forms a glue and this can be roughly extracted by forming a kneaded paste/dough then rinsing the paste in water until the majority of the flour is washed away, leaving the gluten. In my experience none of the gums - in the quantity used in gf breads - would have the same strength.

I am not sure whether the dietitian involved was demonstrating the indigestibility of bread in any form, or the need to chew food well in order to assist it to break down before it reaches the small intestine.

not sure its the best idea to experiment in this way most of us knew what reaction you would have eating non gf bread. To be honest when we spend our lives banging our head against walls trying to convince society coeliac is a serious condition reading a fellow sufferer is sititing at home doing experiments in uncontrolled conditions just seems crazy. This has to be done in the right environment with the right medical support. SORRY if i offend but it sounds like self harming from where im sitting

Isn't gluten the thing that makes dough stretchy when you're making bread - and that factor is what they have the most difficulty in artificially replicating in GF bread with things like xanthan gum?

In which case, whether the bread turns into a ball or not depends on how well they've succeeded in imitating the effects of gluten, and I'd imagine that would vary by brand.

I'm not really convinced gluten free bread is all that good for you anyway, so not sure what this proves!

pretender
pretender in reply to freelancer

Sensitivity can be an issue for some, Xanthan Gum can be grown on wheat, yes there can be a cross over. FSA.

A replacement has been found for gluten and you will find it on the ingredient list. Hydroxypropylmethycellulose This is strickly taboo to me

The experiment was with the textures of the two different breads not the eating of them. However the experiment with the GF/WF only confirmed my thoughts that this bread is not for me. As it took 45 years for my second diagnosis I had the basics and knew nothing of the Gluten Free diet so no head banging for me. It has however taken seven years for the Healthcare Professionals to accept an underlying Formaldehyde Allergy, trigger by an ingredient in GF foods. Medical Support? I raised the issue of the GF diet affecting me (didn't know of the allergy at the time) the support was Prognosis: Excellent if remains on a gluten free diet....(my downfall).

Penel
Penel in reply to pretender

A lot of coeliacs don't eat anything labeled as 'gluten free' from the supermarket, because of all the additives. It is really bad that food which is supposed to be OK for us will make some of us ill.

Is this is similar to to the low /high glycaemic index foods (diabetes connection here)

To compare the 2 you put something soft ie white bread into water as well as something with a lot if fibre in it ie an apple and the first one to disintegrate is the one which has the high index= poorer blood sugar control (it enters the blood quickly and then leaves it quickly)

Our stomachs contain an acid that starts the digestion of food. A lump of bread will start to be broken down into its constituent parts, including protein. The villi are not flattened by a physical process, but by a biochemical process. The gluten protein causes inflammation because the body 'misreads' the protein as an invader to be attacked. This is an autoimmune response.

gluten.lovetoknow.com/flatt...

So to get medicines past this acid in the stomach that can actually dissolve razor blades an ingredient called "hypromellose" is used in medicines so that the drug will be active passed the stomach, in many gluten free foods you may find "hydroxypropylmethylcellulose" which is the same as hypromellose. My coeliac diagnosis is based on reduced folds, d2 which I can only assume by diagrams that this is outside the stomach. These ingredients being active passed the stomach and most probably the area d2 has the possibility to trigger the formaldehyde allergy experienced, the same with aspartame.

Penel
Penel in reply to pretender

The acid may be able to dissolve steel but it would take a very very long time and the side effects would be bad!

The villi are found in the small intestine which connects the stomach to the large intestine.

Hydroxypropylmethylcellolose is usually OK in eye drops, but although it's supposed to be inert it seems to really upset the insides of people who are sensitive to it.

It gives me terrible gut ache. Not come across it as a trigger to formaldehyde allergy.

PS. Tropical Sprue has exactly the same symptoms as Coeliac Disease yet is an infection that can be treated with Tetracycline antibiotic. This was evident in Hong Kong the same as TB in the 50's which in 1962 following a capsule biopsy was suggested.

Pretender, late to the conversation. I think I may understand where you're coming from, although it often is hard to work out what you mean...

Are you saying that you were diagnosed as coeliac based on flattened villae, but you think the diagnosis might still be wrong because there are other causes of flattened villae.

Have you had the coeliac blood tests? Positive TTG antibodies would point very strongly to coeliac. In my view they ought to be diagnostic, but I dont think they are with the way coeliac disease is currently defined. And maybe you were negative?

My first diagnosis aged 6 in 1955 was by symptoms and several tests (dark ages). Capsule biopsy 1962 gut healed. Endoscopy 1992 nothing found.

My second diagnosis aged 58 was by endoscopy biopsy, following bloods IgA positive (2007) 2010 bloods were IgA =negative, IgG = negative, ttg = 0.9, ggt = negative. Bloods 2011 DNA = HLA-DQ2 positive (like 40% of population) AGA = 42. Endoscopy biopsy Marsh 0.(gut normal).

My natural father diet of non-hodgkinsons lymphoma, his brother had CD, his brother's daughter did. My step-brother has it, my sister is gluten intolerant, her sons have CD. It is not known if my daughters have, no feed back.

Within 2 weeks of being diagnosed by biopsy having given up bread etc I felt 100% better

Perhaps you should check your dietician's credentials and see whether she is up to date with her continuing professional development (CPD) as local Teaching Hospital's Dietician told a large meeting of coeliacs in Manchester not long ago that the Blood tests are inaccurate and give false positive and false negative results and must not be trusted. She is very much involved with paediatrics to so sees all ranges and ages suffering from CD.

Anyone being required to go through the "Gluten Challenge" needs to know that it can result in severe reactions, obviously involving being unable to digest dairy products too, for a while.

Then ending up with severe gastritis which can mimic a heart attack and result in emergency hospital admission is no fun. Just be prepared for the worst and make the best of it so that you are properly diagnosed. Having been diagnosed by an expert in the field when 13 yrs old in 1952, and having an older cousin born a coeliac and spending his early months in hospital, with a female cousin (a hospital nurse) eventually diagnosed in her 40's after years of problems, I found my PCT wouldn't accept an earlier diagnosis and family history, and put me through this very costly exercise to save money on prescriptions. It actually cost them very dearly to do this.

If only we had some coeliacs on these new CCG's the Govt. has brought in!!!!!!!!

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