More Health Data Needed In Studies?

[Nwdx]

Now reading 9 months here and the other forum- especially the horror stories after ADT, it seems lacking as to a newbie like myself what seems missing are what I consider additional contributory factors related to before and after treatment or no treatment. There seems to be so many variables as to outcomes and the disease so individualized that conclusions are difficult to discern.

Factors including only your non genetic predisposition- things like what sort of food consumption growing up and diet from your Country, level of toxicity of environment where you grew up, your parents food affordability and income during your upbringing, past and current lifestyles, emotional stress management and level, exercise, what sort of diet followed pre PCa (Fast food, red meat, processed foods, fried foods, milk, etc), how overweight someone was at diagnosis, how much smoking or alcohol consumption they have, how much sugar or HFCS drinks or "Zero" drinks consumed before and after treatment, what other drugs they took for other unrelated ailments or chronic- the variables are endless as much as the outcomes of treatment.

The paradox of say these generalized studies where say Asian men previously on a fish (Methionine- tools.myfooddata.com/nutrie... and rice (sugar-glucose increase) diet later move to say the USA and eat mostly western diets of cheese fondue, chicken wings, steaks, burgers, fries, etc and ultra process foods with preservatives and added chemicals, etc and increases in PCa are noted in those men who changed their diets.

Where to me- rice turns to sugar quickly and is consumed in higher quantities than in the west- so leads me to the Glucose - Glutamine questions and their true drivers of disease- or am I completely missing something? ( not including the standard "Testosterone feeds tumors, so we need to kill it off (ADT) to stop it growing).

My take is that most all SOC focuses on those of us aged that Medicare is paying for expensive treatments, biopsies, drugs to an aging population where we are a steady source of income as a great customer base for profitability in the damaged US healthcare/sickcare system.

[Maxone73]

Hi!

Well...I think it's also a matter of quantity. They eat rice but they eat less. Then if you add fat to it (like fat fish) GI doesn't increase much (even if glicemic load remains more or less the same). In general, research is pointing to the interaction between microbiome and inflammation. Avoiding simple sugar, excessive alcohol, too much animal fat, dairy and increasing (dramatically I would add) fibres seems to have a great positive effect.

But eating 40-50 fibres per day is not an easy task even if you are vegan + fish like me. Plus as you underlined, it's not just a matter of what you eat but also about how it has been raised. Milk nowadays is not the same as 100 years ago. Even here in Italy in my area things are different, more fast food and so on even if in Europe we eat the least amount of super processed food (around 15% compared to a 50% of the UK and Germany).

Plus back in the days they used for example to drink more goat milk than cow milk, which is better in many aspects. Of course also for vegetables the quality declined but not as much as for animal products (plus it's easier to grow your own salad than your own pigs).

And, according to many (also in my past experience as personal trainer) in the west in general we have a "I don't eat enough protein" syndrome which is quite wrong. First of all we do not give importance to vegetal proteins, secondly we accept things like "x grams per kg of body weight" which is simply wrong (this is an old personal battle of mine!) not only because it must of course be in relationship with your level of physical activity, but also because it should be "per kg of ideal weight" or "per kg of lean mass". If you take two guys, both 120Kg of weight, one with a 10% of body fat and the other one with a 35%...if you base the dosage only body weight, the second guy would simple be overfeeding.

A lot in the field is being done to help with colon cancer, which is growing impressively among young people.

[Nwdx in reply to Maxone73]

You are lucky to have lower amounts of "added ingredients" compared to other EU countries. Have you ever posted here on another thread what kind of specific details on what your diet is? And any supplements you take? I am in the adjustment phase, it's almost a year from tumor discovery and have eaten very, very few times meats- like chicken of unknown origin roasted- 4 hamburgers, 2 steaks in over a year. Mostly tomatoes (hybrid seeds of course I assume, nothing tasting like as a child), potatoes, lots of avocados.

[Maxone73 in reply to Nwdx]

Hi!

well, from the maps I have read, the same is valid for all the mediterranean EU countries except from France if I remember correctly.

About my diet/training/supplements,I have written something in my bio, but it changed since then. I tend to be very conservative about those info because they usually start endless conversations with different points of view that tend to collide, with people screaming there is no direct clinical trial about this, others saying that post-hoc is enough in these cases because of the large population and duration of such studies....it's a hot topic, really.

But I can share the info as long as it's understood that it's my own regimen and there is no guarantee of anything 😜😜

[pakb in reply to Maxone73]

My husband is also vegan + fish. And completely agree about the protein statement as well. I'd love to hear more about your dietary/supplement routine. If only to keep the body as healthy as possible for SOC to work best.

[Maxone73 in reply to pakb]

Ok, I will put together a complete overview of my current strategy and post it here

[Maxone73 in reply to pakb]

Hi! Check my last post

[Nwdx in reply to Maxone73]

Thank you in advance. Some on the "other" forum appears to dismiss dietary change and believe injecting themselves with drugs is the answer. I have nothing to argue about nor will do anything other that say I appreciate anything you put together and your viewpoint and diet you follow as a start. Being where you are, obviously some things might not be available where I am, but I will be interested.

Myself- I have tried to do some drastic things (Broccoli and Limes Blended) and others recommended by Markus Rothkranz- "TheHealthyLife.com" and he produces a free PDF book called "Heal Yourself" which starts off by stating his own father had stage 4 prostate cancer and changed his diet to plant based. Though I have been unable to read anything about his fathers experience, and hope one day that he will reveal it on one of his pragmatic videos. I also have been reading and experimenting with the late Dr. McDougalls recommendations. After losing 60 lbs, I now am regaining about 10 lbs weight due to some bad dessert and recent gluten free foods and thyroid issues unfortunately. So I need to cut that out.

What I added were supplements like 10000 mg D3 daily + K2, B12, Kelp, Spirulina, Soursop leave tablets, Berberine, Revesperol- Grape Seed Extract, Green Tea, Curcuman, Milk Thistle and CBD and others recommended months ago) and many more vegetables as I never have been a fan at all- but want to survive this mess for a few more years hopefully and stunt the tumor growth.

What I removed from my diet: All meats, sausages, cheese and dairy, processed foods, soft drinks, cookies and candy and have been already been gluten free 2 decades, butter, animal fats, seed oils (Only when eating out do I get them- likely soy and cheap oils).

[Maxone73 in reply to Nwdx]

OK, I have made a post about my non SOC, it would have been to long to post it here!

[dhccpa in reply to Maxone73]

Excellent points all around.

[Nwdx]

I have studied now many months, and for most of my adult life avoided vegetables as I really cannot stand eating them cooked. Only liked them in stir fry, and I used to eat out a lot so never any in the places that I went to. Post tumor discovery, I ate your standard American diet bacon/eggs hash browns, and chicken burger and fries, mexican, korean, sushi, etc.

Daily I used to eat 3-4 eggs- now 2 per week or so, trying to eliminate them. These various and different research articles have given me ideas to add a lot of new things to the mix solely attempting to throw everything as far as diet at this. Whether anything works, I will know eventually when I have my PSA and the tumor measured again in coming months (now a year since discovery).

No current plans going to any Doctors, nor for the biopsy or SOC as I will not subject myself to sales pitches on ADT or surgery so no point in knowing my gleason score simply because I either live or I die and don't want to be treated and remove my testosterone- just live the best I can, feeling great now exercising daily and eating all these vegetables while I still am able to- I have been insinuated to be crazy by many- but a few understand. There seems to be debates about testosterone level depending on staging too, though I realize it's what drives this disease according to many things I have read.

I am an outlier, my continued sexual health as stated before and QOL is more important that length of life- I don't want to live another be 15-20+ years without sexual function and have other health issues to contend with, but losing weight and dietary changes I no longer require blood pressure meds. I have reconsidered taking Proton, SBRT/IMRT or cyberknife radiation as planned when medicare was available. Amazing how many clinics attempt to sell you after your first call in to inquire- this is a profitable business evidently. For now living a positive life since I don't have really any standard symptoms- I don't wake up all night to urinate, blood in urine, etc. Reading too many stories of complications from surgery with ED, and depending on radiation accuracy and method and the incontinence -diaper thing- so sad.

I drink coffee with 1 tsp cinnamon in mornings along with all bean only american style chili, with curcumun, chili powder, fresh onions. I eat raw vegetables mixed up in a blender such as Brocolli and limes or Celery and limes- sometimes with fresh pineapple, strawberries or graviola pulp to add some sweetness, but when vegetables cooked make all vegetables palatable cooked using curry, cumin, some salt, moringa, cayenne pepper, etc. Lot's of guacamole without chips- substitute gluten free rice crackers. Salads with 3 avocados and tomatoes, onions and cilantro and latest white button mushrooms having difficulty not using dressings without flavors through. Sesame oil, balsamic/olive oil, sometimes chipotle with mayonaise but that isn't good due to eggs.

Other dietary anti-cancer anti-oxidant foods and supplements I added in Sea Kelp, Spirulina, Vitamin K2 with MK (for absorbtion of D3 10000 IU every other day). I eat fresh walnuts, pecans, macadamia and pecan nuts- in salads or alone and pure 100% cacao chocolate bars and also cacao in powder form with a fresh banana (Not too ripe as too much sugar). Cooking oils are avocado and extra virgin olive oil. FWIW.

[Nwdx]

Yes, enjoying life that's my entire goal too, I have enjoyed it for many years fortunately- great job and work, then self employed, retired early decades ago, travelled the world, good friends, best food, tennis, etc.

Environmental stress? Do you mean family or friends, living situation, work, etc stress? My father died from unrelated cancer (Lymphoma, CLL) hence my anti-hospital/system attitude and watching him 3 months suffering in hospital and chemo it's not for me.

Yea, I know eating only vegetables sucks but I eat sushi too, and that's my go-to enjoyment. I love seafood but need to cut back on too much of it.