as you know I am a firm believer, I have used it while on chemo and I still do it, there are any ongoing trials trying to confirm if the great results that fast mimicking diet had in vivo can be obtained on humans as well, hopefully against prostate cancer 
here is a "test drive" done on two patients with chronic leukemia
aacrjournals.org/cancerres/...
and here a report, I think the most updated one (fro July), summarizing where we are:
Well, I'm doing a FMD. I can't say it's doing anything on the cancer but I think I feel better mostly. I did 3 months of 5 day FMD starting In March. I'm now planning on doing quarterly FMD the second week of September.
Here's a quick overview of my CBC panel from before (April) and after (July):
WBC. 5.1 7.3 thousand/ul
Hglb. 13.6. 14.4.
RBC. 4.33 4.53. gm/dl
Neuts. 2948. 4241 cells/mcL
Lymphs. 1535 2117 cells/mcL
Is this due to regeneration I do not know. I'm going to follow the trends to see.
I do loose roughly 5 lbs each session which I regain a month later. It's mostly water weight.
I'm on a statin now so I can't make any claims about my cholesterol levels. Glucose is always mid 80s when fasting before blood work.
Cheers.
Doing what's best gets confusing since it has been discussed that autophagy, which is triggered by fasting, is apparently good at preventing cancer but could be promoting the formation of metastasis if you already have cancer.
I wish there was a clear and definitive outcome on whether it is a positive thing for us to do or whether it is counter-indicated for people with our condition. I used to do extended fasts a few times a year but after reading things like "The crucial question, however, is whether autophagy helps kill tumor cells or instead protects them from the therapies' cell-damaging effects. There's evidence on both sides." or "Cells rely on autophagy to recycle their components, and much evidence favors the idea that this “self-eating” suppresses tumor development. But other data suggest that autophagy fosters tumor development and actually protects cancer cells from treatments" in articles like this one: science.org/doi/10.1126/sci....
The benefits of fasting on overall health has been demonstrated and I've felt several of the benefits myself, but when it comes to its impact on prostate cancer specifically, I don't know anymore.
I think it really is dependant on the individual situation. Wide spread mets or high volume disease, I might not want to poke the bear. Low volume disease, maybe it's possible to generate some new immune cells that will attack the cancer. That's my hope.
Methionine deprivation seems the way to go.
Restriction is a better word 😃
Interesting nature.com/articles/s41467-...
Being basically vegan (salmon here and there) I am already on a very low methionine diet…and I did not know!
I tried a restricted methionine diet. What a pain in the ass. First, it had no impact and second, it is such a drag being on these meds I don't need anymore hardships. Food is one of the pleasures of life. I'm not restricting to gain a few more months...that is if any of these dietary interventions even work.
Max - As you may already know Valter Longo is a true pioneer in fasting for health benefit(s). By his own admission, he developed the FMD in response to the simple fact that most people will or cannot do long water-only fasting, but with a small amount of the right food can/will do fasting when they can gain a significant benefit. As with weight-loss via drastic changes to diet and lifestyle, only a minority of those who try it will maintain it over time. Longo recognized that fasting works to improve health outcomes and so he developed his FMD as a way to broaden fasting to a much larger population - and he does real-world research to prove that FMD actually works.
For anyone who wants to dig deep in the science of fasting (both the physiological and psychological aspects of it), this ~ 2hr Rich Roll podcast with TrueNorth Health Center founder, Dr. Alan Goldhamer, is first-rate. I doubt any doctor in the world has more experience with long-term fasting than does Dr. Goldhamer. At the end of this week, I expect I will start my third 3-day water-only fast of 2024. Here is the RR- Goldhamer podcast:
From the podcast intro:
* * *
With chronic diseases affecting 3.5 billion people worldwide and over 70% of US adults struggling with excess weight—the need for effective interventions has never been more urgent.
But what if the solution to our ailments lies not in mainstream treatments, but within the innate intelligence of our bodies?
My guest today is Dr. Alan Goldhamer, a pioneering researcher and the founder and director of TrueNorth Health Center in Santa Rosa, California, the world’s largest facility specializing in medically supervised water-only fasting. Since 1984, Dr. Goldhamer has overseen the water-only fasting and care of more than 25,000 patients—with some fasts lasting upwards of 40 days.
Through research and clinical experience, he has shown that prolonged water-only fasting—when conducted under proper medical supervision—can yield remarkable results in reversing hypertension, type 2 diabetes, autoimmune disorders, and even certain types of cancer.
His work details the relationship between fasting, metabolism, inflammation, and cellular processes such as autophagy and apoptosis. This relationship is significant to the body’s penchant for healing, offering a lifeline to conditions discussed in his new book, Can Fasting Save Your Life?
* * *
The Insane Benefits of Water-Only Fasting: Dr. Alan Goldhamer | Rich Roll Podcast
richroll.com/podcast/alan-g...
Eat less to live better and longer!
Ciao - cujoe
So you do one day water fasting rather than 5 days at 20% of calories (more or less) as per Longo’s FMD?
Several years back I started doing a couple of 3-days fasts of water only (black coffee and tea are allowed if used normally) and no food for the entire fasting period, Depending on how I feel at the end of the 3 days, I sometimes stretch it overnight for an extra half day. During my first fast of 2024, I stayed active (daily walks and light workouts at the gym) and felt pretty lousy. (1)
After seeing the Dr. Goldhamer's recommendation for resting and trying to stay inactive for the fasting period, I did exactly that in the most recent one and had a much better experience. I use some dip-stick urine test strips to gauge transition to ketosis. Last time out, the strips started showing some ketones in my urine at about 36 hours and a strong indication at around the start of the second day. I expect I will now try to make 3-day fasting a once-a-quarter routine going into 2025 and beyond.(2)
(1) I had started to question the benefits of multi-day water-only fasting after Peter Attia said he had dropped his extensive fasting routine due to his determination of muscle loss. When I heard him describe how and when he did his fasts (often while traveling for work, working out, etc.), plus being coupled with his super-lean level of fitness, Dr. Goldhamer's recommendation for resting made me think Attia's activity level was the reason he was losing muscle-mass (scavenging muscle tissue for energy) and not the act of fasting itself.
(2) One of the fringe benefits I heard mentioned for fasting (maybe it was Andrew Huberman) was the ability fasting provides for disciplining oneself past normal food cravings - as once you have gone without eating for as long as 3 days, it is a virtual walk-in-the-park to avoid that snack urge 2 hours before mealtime.
Interesting! I must say I workout as usual during my FMD days, it's not a problem for me as in the morning I have the highest energy levels. But when I restart eating I literally feel my body "replenish". What sucks is social life, especially in summer. I follow a plant based diet (with fish here and there) and I have a normal breakfast, a generous lunch and a small dinner (mainly because daro need to be taken with food), but you can bet that when I have my FMD week (every 4 weeks for 3 times, then I plan to do it every two months, always a week before my bloodwork + PSA) I have friends asking me and the wife out for dinner. Food quality is not a problem, I can easily eat vegan when we are out, but let's say that when you are in good company you tend to eat more
So for my "personality" one or two days of water only is less stressing (also I can do it in the workout-free day).
I totally agree about the self discipline part and I suggest it to people as a form of "I am in control, not my body" form of meditation. I don't know how to call it, but I feel like a winner once I am done 😂😂
Ah, normally the next day or few days after ending the FMD diet, we go to an all you can eat where I basically eat two/three dishes of vegetables and then the whole salmon population of Alaska....🤦♂️
I liked Goldhamer's approach except for one thing when talking about foods...if you call extra virgin olive oil highly processed fat...well...you don't know what it is 😀 mediterranean diet does not promote the use of olive oil but only of extra virgin olive oil
One the flip side, re: benefits of Med Diet (and CPEV olive oil), Taleb raises the possibility (esp for those practicing Greek Orthodoxy Traditions) that the health benefits my be derived from the religious fasting routine - and not necessarily from the diet composition. See this for more:
graphpaperdiaries.com/2017/...
Once one starts to question the notion of "3 square meals a day", you don't have to go too far back in human evolution to imagine the uneven flow of nutrition before the domestication of animals and agriculture provided a reliable source of food as needed or desired. We are likely still genetically programmed for both sweets (think ripe fruit) and fats (think nutritionally dense seeds) for the nutritional support they provided back in that earlier time, usually only on a seasonal basis; i.e., eat a lot now, since you don't know when you will come across another source? And the processed food industry is expert at using those innate cues to load-up processed foods with both of sugars and fats to keep us coming back for more. Refined products low in one are almost always higher in the other. And excess salt will commonly show up in both.
Michael Pollan's subtitle to In Defense of Food, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.", still rings true 16 years after it was published. And his "Food Rules" continue to be a good guide to how and what to eat.
EV olive oil is by definition is CP EV olive oil, that’s what I am saying 😜 the CP part is a marketing gimmick (I make my own oil, at least till we sell the house and the olive trees field).
On the long run if you talk about health and longevity med diet (the real one, now we eat simply too much and too refined) is the one that gives the best results (also because is easier than most to follow). Longo as you know is not an expert in cancer but in longevity, and he tracked down the lifestyle of people over 100 (many are in Italy and concentrated mainly in precise areas). Physical activity, socialization, nothing refined, seldom white sugar, low meat, very light dinner, legumes, whole grains, olive oil, almost no butter…..and don’t eat too much! I would say we are doing our best about all this! 😜😜😜
Max - Take a good look at this post from about a year back.
New strategies against bone metastases from prostate cancer - Science Daily
Developments in the Continued Search for a Prostate Cancer Vaccine...Arnab Basu, MD, on Breaking the Barriers to Genetic Counseling in Prostate Cancer - ASCO Reading Room - MedPage Today - 04.07.2021When should ADT be given with SBRT?, Some SBRT news, looking at Radiosensitizers in Prostate Cancer treatment
What we are up against: Know the Beast
