I am currently composing a letter appealing the decision to place me in the WRAG group rather than the support group, and I am wrestling with a sentence which basically says that I do not need help in finding work or how to look for it and interview techniques and all the stuff that Skills & Learning classes provide, because I would be more than capable in doing all that myself were it not for the fact my body will not allow me to do so, and that my various health issues are solely to blame for me being unemployed.
I have run it past a couple of people and they think I should not include this sentence but instead just list all my ailments and leave it at that.
But I cannot see what is wrong with it, more to the point it is true, I have acquired many skills in my life that would make it easy to have a vastly superior life style to the one I have now, so why is it wrong to include it, do they think I would rather scratch around with a few hundred quid a month instead of actually working for a good living and felling good about myself again?
What say the HealthUnlocked collective?
Brook.
Written by
Speedracer
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Hi, I would recommend benefits and work site for this sort of thing. They are very good. If you look on the Fibroaction main site under 'benefits' there is an email address to send you the guides from the site. I would also recommend joining as you can ask questions in the forum then.
I am unsure about the need for the sentence, maybe best stick to how you meet the criteria for the support group. x
I too love euphony but at the end of the day it is not going to make one blind bit of difference to any decision maker!
In my opinion most of them are brain dead screen readers.
Stick to fact, and fact that qualifies you, that is the only thing that matters to these people,, if what I once heard is true; pouring ones heart out would probably be used more for entertainment purposes in the office.
As Orangeblossom said "stick to how you meet the criteria for the support group" keep it simple and repeat if necessary!
I do not know a great deal about these benefits myself but can I ask you a question? Is this benefit dependent on you actively searching for work? (Like Jobseekers?). If so, I would not put the sentence in just in case it is held against you? They may feel that you are not actively seeking employment and stop / reduce your income? There have been some posts on here about things being twisted?
I want to genuinely wish you all the best of luck and I hope that you find the answers that you are looking for.
Hi Ken, yes I am in the work group of ESA which demands you are "preparing for a return to work", & attending skills to facilitate that when I am able to do so.
I haven't been able to attend any class since before Christmas due to my health and I feel I should be in the support group, which doesn't place those demands on anyone.
I am trying to stress that I don't lack any skills, I have many qualifications & knowledge in many different fields & were my health normal finding a well paid job would be easy for me.
The big caveat being that there are signs my illnesses are getting worse not better & long term prognosis is not good.
My thoughts are if you state that you are capable of looking for work on your own it could be construed that you will be looking for work. They could then state that you are not viable to Support group and the WRAG is a help to work scheme that you can show your intent at their meetings?
As RayB said concentrate on meeting the support group criteria. I was awarded WRAG and appealed to be moved to Support! it is hard but not completely impossible?
Thanks offcut, my view is that I am stating exactly the opposite, I have the skills but not the body.
I don't want to be shown how to compile a CV, or learning interview techniques, I already possess those abilities, I want my pain to go away and live a normal life, but sending me on useless courses and making me stress about it is having an adverse effect, they in effect are making my conditions worse.
Unfortunately how we see the world and the DWP see the world are very different! I would love to work but I cannot. If you supply fit notes and they are not for any longer than 3 months they cannot expect you to turn up for their interview. But they can get their doctor to look at you and override the note!
I have been unfit for work and in receipt of DLA for the last 5 years or so, so I don't need fit notes.
Even my advisor at the Job Centre understands my position and only contacts me to fill her job sheet. I don't even have to attend interviews in person any more, I just get a telephone call that lasts a couple of minutes. All I am asked is "Is your condition still the same"?
My doctor is totally on my side as well so that wouldn't happen.
Cheers.
Hi
I have read and re-read that sentence I think you are saying that you are fit to look for work. I would not include that in a letter as a decision maker will glance at that statement and curtail your ESA without reading any further
Don't forget they have (individually) massive case loads and are under pressure to reduce the amount of ESA claimants
Just stick to why you qualify to the support group as previously mentioned go to the benefits and work website to guidance
Hi dillm2, thank you for replying. I am saying the opposite of that. I am saying I don't need to sit in a classroom and be taught things I already know. I want help to manage my pain until such time I am well again, should I be so lucky.
Hi Brook, I have many health issues myself and most recently a spinal operation that went wrong!! I also have mental health issues. I dread being called in for any kind of interview. We are expected to gather evidence to support our case yet we are barely able to go forward one step in our day to day life. I feel the worry of an interview, a brown letter through the letter box gives me and I'm sure others a panic attack. Just reading on this site angers me of the stress everyone is going through. I would be a danger to others going into a work space, but if they could find me a job where I can lay down every 30 minutes for 30 minutes I'd try that job!!! Do these people think we like being out of work, that we like being called spongers on society, NO WE HATE IT. We want like you said a decent wage, a good life style, social contact. Keep me informed on how you get on.
Hi Kittykat, thank you for your reply, you see, you get me
I understand how people are viewing my question, and that my statement could be misunderstood, and I am going to listen to the advice I have been given & not include it, but it makes me sad that my frustration in the situation could lead to the opposite of what I am trying to achieve.
Hi, you won't believe this but believe it... A brown envelope landed on my mat 10 minutes ago, work-focused interview for next week!!! Must go now but be in touch later.
The criteria are for getting automatic entry into the Support Group - you need to be able to fullfil at least one of these:
1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid can reasonably be used.
Cannot either
i. mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
or
ii. repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.
2. Transferring from one seated position to another.
Cannot move between one seated position and another seated position located next to one another without receiving physical assistance from another person.
3. Reaching.
Cannot raise either arm as if to put something in the top pocket of a coat or jacket.
4. Picking up and moving or transferring by the use of the upper body and arms (excluding standing, sitting, bending or kneeling and all other activities specified in this Schedule).
Cannot pick up and move a 0.5 litre carton full of liquid.
5. Manual dexterity.
Cannot either:
a. press a button, such as a telephone keypad or;
b. turn the pages of a book with either hand.
6. Making self understood through speaking, writing, typing, or other means normally used.
Cannot convey a simple message, such as the presence of a hazard.
7. Understanding communication by:
a. Verbal means (such as hearing or lip reading) alone,
b. Non-verbal means (such as reading 16 point print or Braille) alone, or
c. A combination of (a) and (b), using any aid that is normally, or could reasonably be, used, unaided by another person.
Cannot understand a simple message due to sensory impairment, such as the location of a fire escape.
8. Absence or loss of control whilst conscious leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting), despite the wearing or use of any aids or adaptations which are normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used.
At least once a week experiences:
i. Loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or
ii. Substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device;
sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing.
9. Learning tasks.
a. Cannot learn how to complete a simple task, such as setting an alarm clock, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.
10. Awareness of everyday hazards (such as boiling water or sharp objects).
a. Reduced awareness of everyday hazards leads to a significant risk of:
i. injury to self or others; or
ii. damage to property or possessions,
such that they require supervision for the majority of the time to maintain safety.
11. Initiating and completing personal action (which means planning, organisation, problem solving, prioritising or switching tasks).
Cannot, due to impaired mental function, reliably initiate or complete at least 2 sequential personal actions.
12. Coping with change.
a. Cannot cope with any change, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder, to the extent that day to day life cannot be managed.
13. Coping with social engagement due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.
a. Engagement in social contact is always precluded due to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced by the individual.
14. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.
a. Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or dis-inhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace.
15. Conveying food or drink to the mouth.
a. Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving physical assistance from someone else;
b. Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
c. Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s physical presence; or
d. Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving:
i. physical assistance from someone else; or
ii. regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence.
16. Chewing or swallowing food or drink.
a. Cannot chew or swallow food or drink;
b. Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
c. Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence; or
d. Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to:
i. chew or swallow food or drink; or
ii. chew or swallow food or drink without regular prompting given by another person in the physical presence of the claimant.
Personally I would just write the appeal based on the specific criteria with a detailed explanation of reasons why I fit that criteria. Then I would provide them with as much supporting evidence as possible from GP, Specialists, etc.
Almost forgot. If you have a copy of your medical report go through it with a fine tooth comb and look for inconsistencies between your medical and what was written down in it - my husband's one was a work of fiction!!!
I understand that you feel you have the skills to look for work if you were physically able but I think the DWP have a way of reading between the lines and twisting things so I feel they would read your statement as you being able to look for work and ignore your physical problems and therefore will leave you in the WRAG. This is just my feelings and experience of dealing with them but personally I would not put this statement in as I feel it would be misconstrued (sorry if this is wrong word or spelt wrong fibro fog misting over me today). Good luck with your appeal. Gentle hugs Joolz.x
Hi speedracer, I see no reason why you should not speak the truth. I would include the sentence but underline the part that says ' if my body would let me". I would then list all your physical incapabilities that preveny you from working. can understand entirely why you wish to state you are more than capable of mentally undertaking these tasks, it is physically impossible and therefore a waste of your precious painful time and their limited resources to place you in this group. Ihope you make them understand, all the best
Hello Speedracer, the writing of appeal letters is a very tense task.
I too have the same situation as yourself, they are trying to push me towards work, but my body will not allow me to work, as my conditions just have so much 'control' over my legs, back etc.
Your ailments in a list are fine, but the list does not tell these DWP/ and partners how they affect you and your daily life.
I feel your sentence is correct and this then tells them exactly what you want to say.
i.e. I am T2 diabetic, but that wont stop me from working, many T2 work and cope.
So write your sentence, and sit back and think about what is says about your overall health, and how it affects your life, and the reason why you are unemployed is because :-
A), this makes me feel, and then it brings this or that into play, then B) effects etc.
(eg, when I have to get up and go out very early in the morning, it makes my head spin, blood pressure go up and my blood sugar readings, go haywire and then the shakes and a hypo sets in, so for me appointments need to be in the afternoon, I say this when I have to do appointment booking.)
It is when you get a letter offering help to get back into work, I read it called the writer a 'twit' and shoved it into the draw.
So Speedracer compose your sentence in your letter and be firm with your decision, ttfn from Karen
I got into the support group under 'special circumstances' however i do have other health conditions. You can ask them for the letter saying which criteria it is. I am unsure if this would apply to fibro however? The criteria is 35.2 here legislation.gov.uk/uksi/200...
As well as all of the useful advice others have given, there are the ESA Exceptional Circumstances Regulations that might apply to you. They say
" A claimant who does not have limited capability for work-related activity as determined in
accordance with regulation 30(1) is to be treated as having limited capability for work-related
activity if—
(a) the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement; and
(b) by reason of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk to the mental
or physical health of any person if the claimant were found not to have limited capability
for work-related activity."
You need to show what harm would be done to your physical and/or mental health if you were required to participate in work related activity.
Hi I was just wondering if you at the first stage of asking the DWP to look again at the descision or actually appealing the descision, I believe there is a time constraint on the former.
The reason I ask is originally I was put in the Wrag ESA group, I immediately notified them that I would be asking for the descision to be looked at again. I included all the things that those cleverly worded questioned made it look like anyone unless a double arm or leg amputee would be able to do & more regarding my mental health. This is reviewed by DWP as opposed to Atos, they obviously have all my medical history from previous Incapacity Benefit claims & within 2 weeks I was put into ESA Support Group.
Obviously requiring an appeal tribunal is a totally different ball game.
My advise for what it's worth is to state your main health problems & the main effects on your daily life
I have been in Wrag for a few months now, have attended every bloody interview, even went on a works experience (ive worked for 45 years) dont know how much more experience i need, but i complied with what they wanted, however a few weeks ago my Dr diagnosed my condition as worsened, so i called the DWP and the very nice lady said i should write in and ask to be placed in support, havent heard anything yet, except i now have a compliance interview and i have heard so many stories, im really worried about it, some have said its for fraud and some have said it isnt, however my daughter was paying me back some money that she owed and was paying it weekly into my back, grrr, they had my bank statements, i guess its about this but i did tell them about it , it cant be anything else, i hate all this and truly wish i could continue to work but like you my body says no, i now struggle to get up in the mornings though it does ease during the day, good luck and i hope you get the right decision
I thought I would update this thread for anyone who is interested.
With a heavy heart I decided to go with the majority view here and took that sentence out of my appeal letter. I really, really don't like having to "tone down" my opinion just so that the hard of thinking can understand me, but I recognise that leaving it out was the path of least resistance.
Thank you all for your advice and kind words, especially the last few posts that agreed with me
I will let you all know what is in the reply when I get it.
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dwp rang yesterday tried to stop me appealing from wrag to support group
MANDATORY WORK FOR ESA WRAG CLAIMANTS
Docs letter sent to ATOS
Wrag or support
