This was our 9th egg collection. We got three eggs, all fertilised, all progressed to day 3, by day 5 2 had progressed but were both too small to grade. Day 6 the clinic just rang one has degenerating cells and the other is. 3DD which clinic day is not good enough to freeze. To be honest I felt like he couldn’t wait to get me off the phone, I never even thought to ask what would happen if it was transferred fresh. As the plan was frozen transfers as we paid for 3 cycles and the clinic get you to do all three before you can transfer.
I take soooo many vitamins, go to the gym and have cut out sugar, preservatives and processed food completely. I don’t know what more I can do?
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Keepondreaming
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So sorry to read your post - please do not be too hard on yourself Hope you get some replies that are helpful Might be an idea to discuss your concerns with your clinic/embryologist and what your treatment might be going forward
I feel you.. Do you mind sharing your age and your protocol? I have just completed my 5th IVF cycle. The outcome was awful: 2 eggs collected and fertilised. One stopped developing at 2PN and the other was 12 cells on day 3, cultured until day 5 became 3BC. I am gutted...
I am sorry to hear this, wishing you lots of luck.
I am 33, been on this journey for 7 years. We have had one day 2 embryo, one day 3 embryo and one day 5 embryo from separate cycles. We have also had a cancelled cycle, a no eggs collected cycle, a cycle with one immature egg and a cycle with two abnormal eggs.
I take NAc, proxceed, folic acid, vitamin e, vitamin d, pregnacare conception multivitamin, vitamin c, vitamin b, selenium, magnesium, ubiquinol and coq10 enzyme. Is there anything else you would recommend?
I am so sorry 😞 . Has your partner had further test including a DNA fragmentation test? If they’re getting to day 3 then failing to get to day 5 this suggests there may be a male factor too.
The decision to transfer fresh has to be made on day 5 from what I understand. It’s about the endometrium being at right stage for implantation window and in sync with the embryo. Maybe this is something you could discuss at reveiw? We’ve had this discussion with our clinic that though we are aiming for banking and FET I start luteal support post EC and if on day 5 there’s an embryo that’s not suitable to freeze we could look to transfer.
Some women find double trigger ie Busrelin and HCG trigger helps with more mature eggs if you haven’t already. You might want to ask about melatonin. I take 1-3 mg at night now to help with egg quality (1mg when not in treatment and 3mg during). DM me if you want more info on where you can source this but I followed advice from it starts with the egg for melatonin dose. I’ve personally so far not had egg maturity issue but I know from reading up on it that the papers on melatonin mention improvement in mature oocyte rates.
It sounds like you’re doubling up on some supplements. Too much of a good thing sometimes isn’t too good. Maybe consider rationalising the supplements a bit to give your liver etc a break. I take Ovum which has all the stuff from it starts with the egg, and a top up of ubiquinol (to get the dose recommended in it starts with the egg), bare biology fish oil with vitamin D (to get the dose of vit D recommended in it starts with the egg), vitamin E, magnesium, and Optibac for women probiotics. I stopped pregnacare as inositol while good for those with PCOS, is not good for us with low AMH and can reduce our testosterone further which isn’t good.
I did wonder about if I was taking too many supplements and I did ask this and they said everything I was taking was fine! Very interesting about oregnacare I will stop this.
We have done dna fragmentation test it’s not great, but clinic just recommended supplements/vitamins. We know there is male factor as wel as low AMH but clinic keep saying they can’t tell if it’s the sperm or the egg.
I’ve had double trigger, this time I had 2ml of Buserelin and 2 ovitrelle, all eggs were mature.
I will ask about preparing for transfer if no good forbfreezibg, thanks - this has never been given as an option. I feel like I have to keep asking for all these things and everyone has to just fit in the protocol box, (o know I’m feeling more like this as we haven’t had the result we want to)
Sorry to hear this. It happened to me too. I had 3 x embryos end up as “5DD” and thrown away. If I’d known they were looking so terrible I would have transferred fresh.
I’m worried they left them too long and they could have at least frozen them when they were still growing at an earlier stage. (I don’t even know what DD is; a doctor I got a second opinion from said it only goes to C anyway.)
I had a call with the lab and they sounded so bored talking to me. I couldn’t understand their explanation at all.
Sorry no real advice but if they tell you anything helpful I’d love to hear it! I can do the same. Xx
Yes I felt the same when they rang yesterday I’m hoping it’s a different embryologist today. I’m going to ask if someone else can grade it for a second opinion and going to ask why it can’t be transferred fresh as they have never given us that option. They did give us the chance to freeze one on day three but said if it doesn’t make it to day 5 then it would never be a pregnancy so we took the risk and left it. Now I’m wondering if that’s true and it would have had more chance inside me?
One embryologist told me everyone has there own grading system.,they explained yesterday the first letter is for the quality of the cells that will make the baby and the second letter is for the quality of the cells that makes the placenta and the number refers to the size and if it’s hatching. What I don’t understand is if they don’t freeze them if that quality how do they know it won’t survive the freeze?
Yes, I also have this same question. Surely at least some worse-quality embryos survive the thaw — why not freeze them just in case! I feel it’s a line they have adopted to keep their success rates as high as possible. If they only freeze high quality, they won’t have to be count the transfers which fail due to lesser quality ones.
So sorry you’re having such a rough time. Sounds like your clinic need to give you more answers, time and effort! It’s now too late to do a fresh transfer I think. They have to be transferred on day 5, and you have to have started progesterone supplementation. I’m guessing your embryo would be day 7 by today? Maybe in your next round if you get to the same point you should push for a fresh so would start progesterone after the egg collection to make sure your womb is at its most receptive. Why are they freezing? Is it so you can just keep doing egg collections with no interruption? I hope you manage to speak to someone who can give you some answers and has some compassion. As sometimes that’s all we need on this journey. Sending you a big hug xxx
they advise freezing due to Adenomyosis and a polyp, but also as we paid for a 3 cycle package you have to freeze all and then can transfer fresh on the last cycle!!!
I forgot about the progesterone tbh as it’s so long since we got to the point of a transfer. Every decision we make seems to be the wrong one 😞 I’m thinking we should have frozen something on day 3 but they say if it doesn’t make it to day 5 then it won’t make pregnancy and other say they have more chance when transferred!
Thanks - that’s lovely news for you congratulations!! Were your transfers fresh or frozen? I don’t understand why they won’t even give It a chance, if we had an abundance of embryos I could understand but we don’t and never have!
Only frozen transfers. Do not hesitate to be more strict. If I were you, I would have informed them that they would transfer it no matter what they say. Studies show that second grade embryos have good chances and that morphological classification does mean that much. My embryos are all euploids so their classification based on looks is ridiculous. For my third son my doctor told me that I had almost no chances. Take some distance with what they say. I agree with you 100%. And I have many many embryos, which is not a reason to put to waste embryos that still stand a chance. Trying does not hurt you, it is just a transfer! Do not hesitate to be more expressive, this is your body and your embryos and you are the client: they must do what you say, when what you decides makes sense of course. Last point: a 3DD might evolve into a better graded 4 embryo once transferred.
So sorry to hear this. We have been struggling with embryo quality as well (using donor eggs though) and our new consultant is now doing thorough testing of my partners sperm.
As she puts it ‘he is 50% of the story’ and the male partner often gets overlooked as clinics tend to focus on the woman.
We are now doing the following:
Basic semen analysis (we had previously had this, but repeated to check nothing had changed)
DNA fragmentation testing
Semen culture
Semen microbiome testing
If your clinic doesn’t offer this testing, they might be able to recommend another clinic which does.
hi sorry to hear you’ve had such a tough journey. But you’re producing embryos which is a good sign!
I defo agree with the male factor - your partner should spend 3 months with the supplements/antioxidants before another cycle if fragmentation isn’t great. Then they should be able to use Zymot or similar to select the best sperm if you’re doing ICSI.
I’ve also started on growth hormone which might be something to raise with your clinic? There’s some evidence it helps poor responders and euploidy rate.
I’d also consider the clinic you’re at…I recently changed and the experience is totally different. You’ve paid for a package but if there’s nothing at the end of it I’d explore other options! The embryologist should want to explain things to you (that’s what you’re paying for) and provide more insight.
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