To continue after round 7?

[Annjali]

Hello IVF Warriors

I hope you are well.

I have not posted on here before and I don’t know really where to start so please excuse me if the post seems a little jumbled and too long. Please also note I do not have have specific stats on me and the post is a little generic in some ways.

We have had our 7th and possibly last round of ICSI and I wanted to ask for opinions that I have tried everything possible before we consider calling it a day or trying for another round.

Our main issue is low sperm motility and morphology for which he have been using clomid in time for cycle 4. The other issues are NK cells / immune issues for which I had treatment for in my last 3 rounds.

My husband and myself do not drink or smoke and we are trying our best to eat healthy ( Mediterranean diet) and incorporate healthy walks as part of our routine. We are both in our early 40s. I also included protein, kefir and broth during my last treatment.

My husband was prescribed clomid and suggested impryl before his SSR and I have been having a mixed cocktail of medication such as Q10 and vitamin D, prescribed T Gel, intralipid, inhixia blood thinners and prednisolone. We enquiried on Emma / Alice for probiotic treatment but I was advised to take canesflo as i managed to get pregnant on round 5 (this sadly ended up ectopic).

My questions are:

Is there anything we are missing and we need to look into?

Do we need to change clinics? Possibly ARGC in London?

If SSR was a bad idea? as was informed afterwards that sperm from SSR is normally less active.

After being through so much in my last rounds of treatment; I do wonder if my body can take it anymore as I ended up with OHSS and now have suspected endometriosis in the last round. Each round has usually been progressive but not the last 2 rounds which seems to be since the SSR.

Any pointers (even private messages) would be really appreciated. I know we are all going through our own battles and sometimes I think the warriors on here are the only ones that will understand and help each other.

[Orangeflowers]

🌅 morning. I think it might depend on your age and how many morulas or blastocysts you're able to make on each round which are sufficient quality to transfer or freeze. Your clinic should be able to give you a percentage chance of success. Good luck 🤞 x

[Annjali in reply to Orangeflowers]

Hello and thank you for your reply.

We only got to frozen once, it is usually a

Blacs transfer just about for us.

I will ask about percentages.

[Poppygarden]

Hi Annjali,

It sounds like you have been through so much. You are incredibly strong to have got this far.

I’m not sure if you’ve tried these things already, but if I were in your shoes I would; swap clinics to get a second opinion (especially if the last two rounds haven’t felt like progress), investigate if anything further can be done to improve the sperm with a urologist, test the embryos before transfer.

I really hope you get some good luck soon

Xxx

[Annjali]

hello and thank you for your advice. Will

Look into these points for sure x

[Lowamh123]

Have you thought about going abroad? We’re currently with Care in London and have found the service so appalling… but anyway, clinics abroad have much better success rates (and service) We’re looking at Newlife and Embryolab in Thessaloniki, but there’s great ones in Spain, Czech and other parts of Greece!

I’m sorry that you’ve been through so much. Listen to your gut as to whether you feel you can go through it all again, every stage of IVF is difficult and so draining xx

[Annjali in reply to Lowamh123]

thank you so much, I will make a note of your comments x

[Doodlebug23 in reply to Annjali]

Agree about clinics abroad. So much better care in my opinion and more advanced. Refund guarantee programs are worth looking at too. Look on egg donation friends as lots of info on there even if not looking at donors x

[Annjali in reply to Doodlebug23]

Thank you for the information x

[Elmo13 in reply to Annjali]

I totally agree with thinking about clinics abroad. Completely different approach and standard of service x

[Lamagarden]

Hello Annjali, I’m not sure what SSR is? But has your partner had a sperm fragmentation test done? We did, although our clinic didn’t particularly recommend it as they said they already treat the sperm in the same way they would if the fragmentation test came back high. We did it anyway as we wanted no stone unturned and we had heard that it might highlight infection. The results were normal, so no action. I’m also on our 7th round. It’s so incredibly hard and painful. Wishing u all the best xx

[Annjali in reply to Lamagarden]

hello and thank you. SSR is surgical sperm retrieval. We did have the dna fragmentation test and it came back ok. What do they do to treat the sperm the same way do you know please?

Yes getting to 7th round is hard, I had the Willpower before it somehow and I am sure you will too.

I truly hope this round works for you x

[Lamagarden in reply to Annjali]

Thank you 🙏 I think they said they ‘wash’ the sperm and choose the best swimmers and use them for ICSI, that doesn’t sound very medical, sorry, that’s what I remember. Although that doesn’t sound like anything extra, so I’m not sure, sorry. Good luck x

[Blessed5510]

Hello. I just want to wish you the best! We are about to start round 5, praying they they can get the correct protocol . My husband also has low sperm count. We will this time try a device called Zymot, where the strongest sperm swim to the top and then they use ISCI. This may help with DNA fragmentation with the sperm issue. We have moved to donor eggs. We had a positive the first transfer, but miscarried at 6 weeks, so we praying the 2nd donor egg transfer works! Sending you the best!

[Annjali in reply to Blessed5510]

Thank you i did ask about zymot but we couldn’t have this ( can’t remember why, I think it needs to be for fresh sperm) we did have spermobil to assist though. I hope the zymot does the trick for you.

Really hope this round works for you. ♥️

[JoleneR]

Hello Annjali. I just wanted to respond because I am also early 40s and have been through 7 cycles of IVF in the past few years. My final frozen blastocyst just failed, and I know what a brutal process it is. I've had a total of 6 failed transfers, and two that implanted but miscarried. One of those was tested and had trisomies incompatible with life.

If you are getting low numbers of blastocysts, and only one that implanted, it sounds like you may be in a similar situation to me with older eggs and therefore few that are viable. Statistically, at age 44 only 10% of eggs will be genetically normal. I will be getting there soon, and I realise additional cycles with my own eggs are very unlikely to result in a healthy baby, so I am now looking into the possibility of using donor eggs.

I've had tests, scans, blood thinner, steroids, extra progesterone, ICSI, supplements, healthy diet, but in the end I believe the fundamental issue was age/egg quality.

Can your doctor give you a consultation and advise you about your best options based on your history? It sounds like you have tried a lot with your protocol. I would suggest PGT-A testing, but if you aren't getting enough to freeze each cycle, then I wouldn't risk the damage to the embryo.

I hope you find peace and fulfillment wherever your path leads you. It has definitely been a difficult few years for me, and to have nothing in the end is just horrible, even though I always knew there was no guarantee of success!

[Annjali in reply to JoleneR]

hello and thank you so much for reaching out to me.

Your comments are very relevant and yes we are unable to get to PGTA testing stage.

My consultants do say it’s more male factor but you are correct in that the eggs will soon depreciate. We have already agreed we won’t be using donor either way, hence the real evaluation if to go for another round. We may look into adoption but we want to we have explored all bases first and closed that chapter properly before starting the new Journey to give it our all.

I can see that it’s been a hard journey for you and I can relate to it all, I really hope you get your dream and find fulfilment and enrichment too.

[Lamagarden in reply to JoleneR]

Hello JoleneR, I’m so sorry to hear your difficult experience, our journeys sound to be very similar. Wishing you all the best xx

[JPxx]

Hello,

Sorry to hear about your stressful journey.

Reading the above and your comments, maybe ask about PICSI?

I believe from the above your husband might not have enough sperm to get through the Zygote but PICSI is different, the strongest, low DNA frag sperm bind to the hydraulic acid and they then select it.

I am trying to get my London clinic to order in PICSI as they don't do it.

This year we have done 6 egg collections using surgically removed sperm and done Zymot once for one collection. I have only had one blast, that was negative last month. (using the Zymot) FYI - I only collect 3 eggs at a time.

My friend in Dubai has the exact same issue as my husband, very high DNA frag and she had success with PICSI.

Which clinic are you at?

I am about to ask a question to the network to see if anyone has experience with Zymot and PICSI....

XXX

[Annjali in reply to JPxx]

Hello and thank you for your detailed reply. PICSI was on our list but we didn’t meet the criteria, that have a specific parameter we didn’t meet. But I do wonder if we do start from scratch will attempt to improve the sperm and use fresh sperm in hope to meet the PICSI or PIMSI requirements.

I think I asked about pICSi and zymot on here too, you can search for the thread.

Best wishes on your next round.

[JPxx]

I wonder what the criteria is as my husband has extremely high DNA frag and very low sperm count. Which is why he has had two procedures to remove the sperm now. But no one has mentioned criteria to us. Maybe worth asking again.

Yes I found your question, but no one really had information, I think it is not used often.

I have realised with my clinic I need to keep pushing them and I am often coming up with suggestions.

[Annjali in reply to JPxx]

I will message you privately

and I agree we are the ones coming up with suggesstions