Another chemical… any advice 😢

[Ssteph]

So This morning I found out that it was another chemical pregnancy. have had 5 IVF cycles, 7 embryos transferred all top quality but one early miscarriage and 2 chemical. My clinic don’t test progesterone and don’t offer any further testing, apart from blood clotting and thyroid which all came back fine. Where should I go next? I have three top grade frozen embryos but feel like it would be a waste to just continue doing transfers. Feel at a loss again… 6 weeks for a follow up at the clinic.

[Boo718]

I’m so sorry to hear this. Hope your ok? We had 2 bfn then 2 chemical. I had the era. Alice and Emma tests and also got the embryos pgs tested not sure if this helps you. Xxx

[Ssteph in reply to Boo718]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it. I’m okay just exhausted with it all. My nurse has suggested NK cell testing. I can’t have pga testing at my clinic unfortunately but I’m looking into the other tests you’ve mentioned. Did the biopsy hurt? It’s seems getting theses tests are very limited in the North East. Xxx

[Boo718 in reply to Ssteph]

aww I totally hear you. The whole process/journey is just exhausting and so difficult. The biopsy was no problem at all. Followed the protocol like I was doing a transfer then they did a biopsy instead. Took a couple of minutes not much different to a smear slight dull ache. Then I was out for a walk and too lunch. No bleeding no problems xxx

[Ssteph in reply to Boo718]

Thank you for the reassurance ❤️ Have you had NK tested? Xxx

[Boo718 in reply to Ssteph]

no they were going to be my next steps that and immune testing xxx

[Ssteph in reply to Boo718]

Thank you xxxx

[Marisa32]

Have you had any of the embryos tested? Top grade doesn't mean they are viable. If they were tested and still nothing after all these transfers, I would research the other possible causes. Some ladies swear by ERA or NK cells tests etc.

[Ssteph in reply to Marisa32]

Thank you. No I haven’t had any tested mainly because my clinic don’t offer this. So frustrating and need to do something before doing another transfer. Xxx

[Marisa32 in reply to Ssteph]

oh, I see. Not sure if you can get them tested somewhere else or at least do the karotype test on yourself or DNA frag test on the partner. Most chemicals or BFNs are due chromosomal abnormality, so I would start there. I'm surprised the clinic did 5 rounds without some form of further investigations of what may be going wrong. Goo luck!!

[Ssteph in reply to Marisa32]

I know, I’m so so frustrated with the clinic. Each time they tweek the protocol, or up progesterone, suggested DHEA etc but nothing has worked. They said the DNA fragmentation test wasn’t needed due to doing ICSi everything I ask they don’t support. I felt like I was stuck with them as I have bought into a multi cycle package after my NHS rounds. Thank you xxx

[ki50 in reply to Ssteph]

hi Steph, not sure who you have bought the multi cycle with but sometimes they do allow you to to transfer cycles to a different clinic although there could be a difference in the rates for different clinics. Maybe worth looking into if they're being rubbish!

[Ssteph in reply to ki50]

Ahhh really? I will get onto this tomorrow and check. I just feel really frustrated and disheartened with my clinic, like how long can I just keep going with them saying ‘ we want you to have a baby on your arms too’ they said this again today which to be honest just pisses me off! I just want some further investigations and they just said to try again with a frozen embryo and how I was lucky to have a backup!! Xxx

[Marisa32]

That must be frustrating. No way would I put my body through 5 rounds and 7 transfers not even knowing if my embryos are viable. Hopefully you can move to a better clinic.

[Chel91]

Hi, I'm sadly in a similar situation. Been through 10 embryos with no luck. Just had surgery to remove endometriosis, which is a big hidden issue in RPL / RIF, not sure if that might be something to consider for you. Also, I would suggest getting the biopsy for EMMA / ALICE to check for infection as this is another thing that can cause it.

Usually at this point ladies tend to get in touch with immune specialists, or do more testing, or just proactively add prednisone, clexane, injectable progesterone and maybe other things like metformin to their cycles to see if it helps. Possibly you could have a phone consult with an immune specialist if your clinic won't help you? They can prescribe some stuff privately even if you aren't doing IVF with them. It can be a really long road, but there is definitely options! 💗

[Ssteph in reply to Chel91]

Thank you for the advice. I’m looking into getting some further tests done. My clinic won’t add anything else to my plan instead I have a biopsy to check for NK cells. I know many clinics will give prednisone etc but mind unfortunately won’t. Hopefully going private with a specialist will give me some answers. Thank you so much for the reassurance, it’s really much needed ❤️ Xxx

[Ranchu90]

i am getting frustrated only reading your post, I would have killed your clinic 😤. I had 3 chemicals myself and I did all the tests under the sun before transferring my precious embryos for the last time. It worked on the 4th time and now we have twins. We started with PGS test, ERA, NK cells (biopsy not blood test) than we moved to genetic tests for both of us (me and my husband). We finally introduced steroids and we are now a happy family of 4. Probably will be wise to get in contact with another private clinic for further tests or try to move your embryos and transfer 2 at a time in case they are not all euploid.

[Ssteph in reply to Ranchu90]

Ahhh honestly it’s relentless, I really regret staying on after my failed NHS cycles. There’s just no budging on anything you request. Even the simplest like testing progesterone. I’m so happy to hear you got your babies 🤍 I’m in the process of looking into getting NK cells tested as a starting point. Thanks again for the advice 🥰 xxx

[Ranchu90 in reply to Ssteph]

oh my dear I understand you perfectly! I did 2 cycles with NHS and I know that unfortunately they won't do anything extra apart of what is called a standard. NHS is offering NK cells test but you have to pay for it. Take care

[Ssteph in reply to Ranchu90]

I’m paying private and have done for my last two cycles and still bloody getting standard 🙈 You too love xx

[Ranchu90 in reply to Ssteph]

incredible frustrating, that was the main reason I moved to private clinic and we decided to go even abroad were patients are really heard!

[Missfh]

I would agree that the likely reason for chemical is chromosome issues so moving to pgs testing would be a good next step. Worth noting though that testing embryos that are already frozen means messing with them a bit and can result in damaging them - they need to defrost them, then biopsy, then refreeze. It can absolutely be done but it's possible you lose a small percentage of embies in the process.

Best of luck

[Ssteph in reply to Missfh]

Thank you. My clinic don’t offer pgs testing so looking at options of moving embryos. Xxx

[XxMrsBXx]

Hi Steph,

Am sorry to hear this .

I have also had 2 chemicals and 1 miscarriage .

My clinic doesn’t test progesterone either and now we have no embryos left .

I too was frustrated as they have said if we did another collection they wouldnt change my protocol or meds but we could test the embryos . We did 8 transfers in total .

Take time to decide what you want

Xxx

[Ssteph in reply to XxMrsBXx]

Hello ☺️

Sorry to hear that you’ve been through the awful trauma too. It really is heartbreaking. I hope you’re holding up okay. It’s extremely frustrating and feel for you. My clinic is exactly the same. I luckily have three frozen but I’m certainly not going to transfer.

What are you thinking, will you go again? Xxx

[XxMrsBXx in reply to Ssteph]

It’s frustrating how different clinics can be . We are private and would happily pay for progesterone tests but they don’t do them .

Are you going to test the embryos ?

To be honest after everything we are now considering adoption. I’m 38 so not getting any younger . I’ve had 2 collections so far and as they aren’t willing to change anything we feel like what’s the point ? Xx

[Ssteph in reply to XxMrsBXx]

I know, some ladies on here seem to get a great service and everything throw at them. Yeh same, I pretty much begged for them to test progesterone and the answer was no. I managed to get my doctor to do it, it came back ridiculously hight the day before transfer, I rang my clone and they said they weren’t willing to discuss the results and if I was to reduce the peeves tone it was at my own risk 🤯

I would have to transfer the embryos to a different clinic and then pay for the testing. I’ve looked at moving them but it’s proving difficult as I’m in a multi cycle plan. I’m waiting on a phone call on Monday but I think the answer will be no. The only thing I could do is lose the frozen embryo transfers that are included in my plan and pay a new clinic for the storage and transfers.

I’ve thought about adoption too. I’m 38 next year and this year I’ve had two EC and two chemical pregnancies and it’s really taking over my life. It really is a brutal journey. Would you consider getting a second opinion and moving clinics? Xxx

[XxMrsBXx in reply to Ssteph]

you really shouldn’t have to beg , it’s just so ridiculous !

I hope it works out for you on Monday . Keep me updated ❤️

Wow what a year for you . U must feel drained emotionally and physically .My last egg collection was may 2021 but as we managed to get a good few just done back to back transfers since then.

Nov 21 - chemical March 22 - miscarriage and august 22 another chemical.

I’ll be honest the miscarriage was just heartbreaking but we had 2 embryos left so went for another but sadly was another chemical .

We are in the midlands and can’t travel too far ….. my work doesn’t know so with scans etc I have to do all before work and I have to be there for half 8 . My clinic to work is already about 45 mins . Where are u based ? Xx

[IVFat40]

I would really recommend uterine natural killer cell testing. There is a clinic/research project run by Warwick University and Coventry hospital, which Tommy's are involved with, who specialise in implantation failure/early loss/miscarriage. You can self refer, and I thought they were brilliant (and in IVF terms not expensive). I had transferred 7 blastocyst embryos without success (implantation failure or early chemical), went to this clinic, followed their advice/protocol, and next transfer had my son.

Wishing you all the luck hun.

[Ssteph in reply to IVFat40]

☺️☺️ thank you for your message. So pleased to hear you got your baby and it worked out for you. I today I’ve had a good chat with a lady from the clinic you mentioned and they are emailing me some information over. Hopefully I can get the ball rolling very soon. Take care love

Xxx

[IVFat40 in reply to Ssteph]

Oh that's brilliant so glad you're in touch with

[PaulaDag in reply to IVFat40]

What was their advice/protocol? I had nk cells blood test but understand it is different. x